Do daedric realms halt ageing?

Anumaril

When a mortal enters a daedric plane of Oblivion (e.g., Apocrypha, Coldharbour, etc.), do they stop ageing? We regularly hear of mortals who seemingly live in these realms for hundreds of years (if not thousands, due to time working differently in Oblivion), yet they do not die of old age.

Immortality is an incredibly difficult thing for mortals to achieve in the Elder Scrolls universe, with some dedicating their whole lives pursuing it, yet never achieving it. Still others are unwilling to make the tremendous sacrifice necessary for it, like attaining it through lichdom (or they simply lack the esoteric knowledge required). It therefore seems unlikely that every mortal we hear about living a long time in Oblivion achieved immortality on their own.

So I can only assume that the realms of the Daedric Princes extend a mortal's lifespan indefinitely until they are killed by some physical means (violence, disease, etc.), or until the Prince themself becomes bored of their presence and dispatches them in their own way.

prof-dracko

Time works differently in Oblivion. It's less that the mortals inside are living longer (although some might) and more that every time they interact with Mundus the timelines of the realms don't always synch up.

Danikat

Don't forget not all mortals on Nirn are human. Elves of all races can naturally live for 200-300 years, or even more in some cases. I think some other non-playable races can live even longer than that.

But time does also work differently in Oblivion, so it may not have been as long for them as it was on Nirn (or in other realms it may have been longer).

Another possibility is that some of the mortals in Oblivion may actually be vestiges, like the player character. Although I've never been clear on whether the Vestige is immortal in the sense that they don't age or die, or if they're 'just' an odd form of invincible where they can't be permanently killed by any conventional means.

(I was going to make a joke about none of my characters looking 10 years older than when they were created, but then I remembered ZOS has effectively frozen time in the game, so they wouldn't.)

ClowdyAllDay

Danikat wrote: »

Don't forget not all mortals on Nirn are human. Elves of all races can naturally live for 200-300 years, or even more in some cases. I think some other non-playable races can live even longer than that.

effectively there are not other races really but with a few exceptions. As persons from different races can breed and produce viable offspring then all races are then then of the same gene pool and the idea of races becomes only a different representation of the built in genetic variability capacity. At the level of then genotype they are the same but differences that look like races are really just expressions in the phenotype. Argonians are def of a different genotype. a couple others maybe but only if they can mate and not produce viable offspring with other so-called races.

kaisernick

given that Akatosh is claimed to have created time and is a Adera, Daedric realms likly have no real time in them so i think in theiry a person doesnt age.

Gilvoth

Anumaril wrote: »

When a mortal enters a daedric plane of Oblivion (e.g., Apocrypha, Coldharbour, etc.), do they stop ageing? We regularly hear of mortals who seemingly live in these realms for hundreds of years (if not thousands, due to time working differently in Oblivion), yet they do not die of old age.

Immortality is an incredibly difficult thing for mortals to achieve in the Elder Scrolls universe,

i love your topic, very interesting.
As we know we gauge time by the order of the sun and moon, therefore ... my Theory is that if we remove all the planets including the sun and moons time will no exist. Right? or is it we just dont have proof of it. im not sure.
However, in the Daedric realms do any planets exist, if not then we have some proof that time would not be there as well, or atleast as i said earl;ier we dont have a way to gauge it or mark it. but then we are led to want to know that if time is not present then do we age or regress? or just stand still in age.
i suppose if we are just standing still in time then we would be led to think time existed in order for it to "stand still"
i have noted as many others have as well that time will infact not move during a true love encounter, even though it will only be but for a short time, it may even be slowed, this subject is in need of a Grand testing such abilities for others to be able to see its facts and proofs.

ThelerisTelvanni

Well since we can move, fight enter and leave the deadric planes, that is proof that time in a linear fashon passes for mortals.

So the question is how liniar time flow affects mortals in the deadric planes? Does the eternal deadric flow of time not influence the mortals of the mundus? If so why is that? Because the mortals are only bound by the aedric/orderly flow of time on the mundus when it comes to aging?

Or is it some deadric influence to stop them from aging? We met some mortals after all that spent far longer in the deadric planes than a regular lifetime! Some apearently unaware of the time that has passed. Maybe it is that the flow of time is simply chaotic in the deadric planes like a river that in some places flows faster than other.

TybaltKaine

I dunno. Uriel Septim was not aware of the passage of time during his imprisonment.

"Little is known of Uriel's experience while trapped in Oblivion. He says he remembers nothing but an endless sequence of waking and sleeping nightmares. He says he believed himself to be dreaming, and had no notion of passage of time."

He was gone for a decade, and it seemingly aged his body but not his mind (?)

"Uriel's exile in Oblivion also clearly drained and wasted him in body and spirit, though his mind retained the shrewd cunning and flexibility of his youth."

I'd say that it doesn't halt ageing at all, and instead seems to amplify it for mortals, but that could be a unique thing for Uriel Septim. The Prophet definitely aged during his imprisonment under Molag Bal, but we don't really have a clear timeline for how long that was.

There is some BTS stuff that lists The Prophet at technically 46, which would mean that just like Uriel, he was unnaturally aged by his experiences in a Daedric realm as well as by the effects of the Elder Scrolls.

"According to an interview with Lawrence Schick, Varen was born in 2E 536. He is technically 46 years old, but the effects of the Soulburst, his reading of the Elder Scrolls, and Molag Bal's imprisonment have aged him unnaturally."

So my guess is that it speeds ageing up. Significantly it seems, at least for Humans. I dunno about Mer/Betmer.

Gilvoth

TybaltKaine wrote: »

.... and instead seems to amplify it for mortals, but that could be a unique thing for Uriel Septim. The Prophet definitely aged during his imprisonment under Molag Bal, but we don't really have a clear timeline for how long that was.....

Very interesting, i love this result from an unwilling test subject, however is, or "was" Uriel Septim considered Mer or "Mortal" during that test? seems if we had a few more test subjects "that are Not Demonic Daedra" we could answer the set forth in this thread, the question that we all want to see an answer for.

more testing is needed to answer the Question:

Anumaril wrote: »

When a mortal enters a daedric plane of Oblivion (e.g., Apocrypha, Coldharbour, etc.), do they stop ageing?

note:
could we find any living mer "Mortals" in cold harbor that exist right now? and use them as results of a test already performed by them having been there?

Gilvoth

i took the liberty of asking AI chatbot this question as well, here was its answer:

The concept of time in the Daedric realms of Oblivion in the Elder Scrolls universe is a complex one. It’s noted that time works differently in Oblivion1. This could mean that while Uriel Septim VII did age during his time in Oblivion, it might not have been at the same rate as it would have been in the mortal world1.

There are accounts of mortals who seemingly live in these realms for hundreds of years (if not thousands), yet they do not die of old age1. This suggests that while time does pass in the Daedric realms, it does not necessarily result in the same physical aging process that mortals experience in the mortal world1.

However, it’s also important to note that different Daedric realms might have different rules. The Daedric Princes, who rule these realms, have considerable control over their domains2. Therefore, the effects of time and aging could potentially vary from one Daedric realm to another2.

In conclusion, while it seems that time does exist in the Daedric realms, its effects on aging are not consistent with the mortal world. Mortals might not age in the same way or at the same rate in Oblivion as they do in the mortal world1. However, more definitive answers might be found in the esoteric texts of the Elder Scrolls universe or through the words of the Daedric Princes themselves2.

Gilvoth

i also put forth my question and attempt at a testing of cold harbor having any living or dead? undead? in eso itself as a form of a test? and i asked again to the AI chatbot, here was its answer:

In the Elder Scrolls Online universe, Coldharbour is indeed inhabited by mortals, including Mer, who are known as "Soul Shriven"12. These are individuals whose souls have been taken by Molag Bal, leaving them in a state of torment. However, they are not necessarily representative of typical mortal aging, as their condition as Soul Shriven may affect their aging process12.

There are numerous quests in Coldharbour where you interact with these Soul Shriven345. For example, in the quest “Soul Shriven in Coldharbour”, you escape from a prison in Coldharbour with the help of Lyris Titanborn1. In the “The Army of Meridia” quest, you set up a base of operations in the Hollow City and build an army to take on Molag Bal3. These quests provide some insight into the lives of the Soul Shriven in Coldharbour.

However, it’s important to note that the effects of time and aging in Oblivion, including Coldharbour, are not well understood and may not be consistent with the mortal world1. Therefore, while these quests provide valuable narrative and context, they may not offer definitive scientific evidence about the aging process of mortals in Oblivion.

In conclusion, while there are Mer and other mortals in Coldharbour, their experiences and conditions might not provide a reliable basis for understanding the effects of time and aging in the Daedric realms. The Elder Scrolls universe is rich with lore and mystery, and the nature of time in Oblivion is one of those mysteries that adds to its depth and intrigue.

Gilvoth

this then i created an idea and again i asked chatbot for an answer.
here was my idea'

what if we send as mortal into a daedric realm with nirnroot seeds and tell the mortal to plant the seeds and see the nirnroot grow, would or could this be a test of time in a daedric realm?


it then gave me this answer:


That’s a very creative idea! In theory, if Nirnroot seeds were planted in a Daedric realm and they grew at a rate consistent with their growth in the mortal world, it could suggest that time in that realm operates similarly to time in the mortal world.

However, there are a few important factors to consider:

Environmental Conditions: Nirnroot might require specific environmental conditions to grow that may not be present in a Daedric realm. For example, Nirnroot in the Elder Scrolls universe is often found near water. If such conditions aren’t met in the Daedric realm, the seeds might not grow at all, regardless of the passage of time.
Daedric Influence: The Daedric Princes have control over their realms and could potentially influence the growth of the Nirnroot, either speeding it up, slowing it down, or preventing it altogether.
Reliability of the Test Subject: The mortal who is tasked with planting the seeds and observing their growth would need to be reliable and have a way to communicate their observations back to the mortal world.
Time Perception: Even if the Nirnroot did grow, interpreting the results could be challenging. As we’ve discussed, time may not operate the same way in the Daedric realms as it does in the mortal world. So, a Nirnroot growing at a certain rate in a Daedric realm might not directly correlate to the same amount of time passing in the mortal world.
In conclusion, while this is a fascinating idea, it would be challenging to implement and interpret.


we need a way to test that we can control and examine results.
i hope some one else has some ideas because this question needs to be answered!

Trejgon

There is a side quest in Apocrypha, about a fellow who was old, studying in apocrypha in great hurry, and trying to achieve immortality, because he decided, he will not live long enough to finish his study otherwise.

PrinceShroob

No, Jyggalag had to specifically grant Dyus immortality: "As chamberlain, everyday I yearned for death. It was Lord Jyggalag’s whim that I would despise the role I was molded to fit. After my first few deaths, he grew impatient with me and stripped my mortality away." It's unclear whether Dyus perished due to old age or came to a violent end, but Jyggalag's protection, which Sheogorath continues, protects him from both premature and natural death (see the Legends artwork depicting Dyus as a younger man, indicating that he was capable of aging).

Conversely, Fall of Vitharn details Count Vitharn's issue and those descendants age and die of old age.

However, the unusual passage of time in Daedric realms does seem to extend mortal lifespans. Ciirta lived through one Greymarch and was still alive as another one began, even though Greymarches always happen every one thousand years in the Isles.

Daedric Princes have power over life and death (see Dyus in Shivering Isles and Molag Bal's quests in Oblivion and Skyrim); presumably the Princes may choose to grant immortality to a mortal, which could possibly extend to every mortal within their realm, if they wished it.

ghastley

The Daedric Princes control the passage of time in their realms. In Azura’s it is always Dusk or Dawn. It seems logical that they could apply that to a mortal who happens to be there, and adjust their age, make them immortal, or whatever the Prince chooses. We shouldn’t assume that every visitor gets the same treatment, especially if it’s Sheogorath in control.

So, no single answer. It can halt aging, turn it backward, or speed it up.

M1SHAAN

There's an example in the Deadlands DLC of an NPC for whom it seems like time hasn't passed (or has passed slowly): Selveni Andalor. From his dialogue we're lead to believe that he has been dithering outside of False Martyrs' Folly for around six hundred years, whereas he swears it's been just a few weeks. Given that he hasn't died of starvation or old age or had to resupply food often enough to realize it had been longer than a few weeks, I believe him when he says he's only experienced a few weeks worth of time. Merhunes Dagon is playing a cruel joke on him, I guess.

On a related note, I love Selveni. He's so relatably pathetic
Selveni Andalor: "Selveni, you're grown now, you can handle disappointment. Find the statues and don't cry in front of Sotha Sil."
Divines bless him.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Time is a weird concept in Oblivion, because linear time like Mundus have was made by Akatosh. In oblivion time works differently and there is no defined rule. In realms belonging to a prince they decide the time, which can be whatever they want: It can be still, go fast or slow, go backwards, make jumps etc. In realms without a prince, this is likely very random.

So they can halt ageing, but may not always do so, and can even accelerate ageing. We see examples of halting ageing* in Deadlands' Wretched Spire, which is part of old Mournhold (The Mournhold in game is a rebuilt version) that Dagon ripped from Nirn into Deadlands. The people misfortunately was pulled with are from the first era.

* Using the word halting ageing may not be correct, because again, time works differently in Oblivion. It doesn't have to, and is actually unlikely, to match up with Mundus. A person who entered a realm in the first era and another who enters it in the third may be there at the same time.

It's something I wish ZOS played around with more, because just entering oblivion may be dangerous from a point many don't think about. You have an option to enter oblivion to stop an urgent danger or obtain some ingredient for someone who may soon die without it, and when you get back years has gone by. Or someone enters then instantly comes out again but they have been years inside oblivion.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

From an Answers Your Questions article a while back:

"Are the mortal inhabitants of the Shivering Isles subject to the effects of Time? Those who have departed Tamriel under Lord Sheogorath's wing seem to live for centuries in between Greymarches if the ravings of madmen are to be believed. Knowledge of their fate might help assuage the grief of certain members of the Mages Guild who have had recent dealings with the Madgod.
– Legoless, Doyen of the United Explorers of Scholarly Pursuits"
Chamberlain Haskill says, "Oh, of course, 'Doyen,' because assuaging the grief of mortals is so important to me. Let me be clear: inhabitants of the Shivering Isles are affected by Time, but we are not subject to it. We are subjects of Lord Sheogorath, who subjects us to whatever subjects he is in the mood to subjudicate. Because Time is subjective."

OtarTheMad

It definitely works differently, maybe even up to the Daedric Prince who controls it.

Good example is Miraak. He was saved from defeat and brought into Apocrypha during the Merethic Era, like early Merethic Era since his fight with Vahlok separated Solstheim from Skyrim. He is alive and well during the events of Skyrim which is in the 4th era. Hermaeus Mora could have kept him alive all that time but he still barely aged.

reg369

The time rules are not consistent across Oblivion. It seems that time works the same inside the Shivering Isles as in Mundus, including thet mortal made rules of what an era is, which is having an effect on the Shivering Isles and the Grey March (other sources say it is alway 1000 years between them and they just line up with the 4th era beginning).

So time possibly is controled by the ruler of each realm. But it seems that time is never really frozen in the planes we see. For example while we meet people in the Deadlands that claim it is the 1E and Dagon just attacked Mournhold, time still passes. Societies are build, people can die and things can change.
Not to get in time paradox stuff but wouldn't time need to littleraly freeze so people do not age? If I can run around Dagon's plane and kill somebody, then surely that person could also starve or change through aging. Why would movement and sound not be effected by time but aging be?

I think time just syncs up differently, maybe with the Daedric Lord influencing it. Maybe time never passes the same way it does on Mundus but people are probably effected by stuff like aging. I think the reason why we meet people from hundreds of years ago is that time syncs up differenlty and when those people would decide to return to Mundus they would maybe come back at their own time.
So the Dunmer priest we are meeting in the Deadlands will walk through the same portal and might come back in 1 E while we come back in the 2 E.
Otherwise it would mean that time passes much slower in the Deadlands. A person walks in for a few days and would come out hundreds of years later but this never seems to be the case if we or people from the storyline enter the Deadlands but maybe people are effected differently.

Syldras

reg369 wrote: »

when those people would decide to return to Mundus they would maybe come back at their own time.
So the Dunmer priest we are meeting in the Deadlands will walk through the same portal and might come back in 1 E while we come back in the 2 E.

He doesn't, though. He shows up at the usual end-of-chapter party in Leyawiin Castle (and sadly doesn't even mention anything about Tamriel looking different than it did when he left).