Game entirely broken in Cyrodiil

AnduinTryggva

Since half an hour about 20+ dc players try to throw out an ep ball group out of a home keep.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Not one single ep player died judging from chat messages, despite many many sieges inside firing at that ball group.

This is simply ridiculous.

Stacking of altruistic skills and buffs needs to be capped. irrespective of what it does.

jcaceresw

Agreed. Wish I were part of ZOS staff to implement some ideas to make PVP more enjoyable for everyone instead of what we have now (software engineer here). But then again, the higher ups may block my proposals or try to pervert them into something that require to spend lots of crowns.

barney2525

If it's broke....

use Duct Tape

ShadowPaladin

Welcome to the World of Ball-Grouping OP .

There have been tonns of threads about this matter within the last months (last year), but sadly so far nothing has happend .

This [snip] is screwing up PvP for most of the players. Everytime such a group starts doing what OP described people start leaving the Cyro instance after some time, because they have absolutely ZERO interest in being overrun again and again and again and not being able to kill those groups, although being bombarded with dozens of sieges.

[edited for profanity bypass]

jerj6925

What the developers are creating is Definity an elitest environment when it comes to PVP, as more and more of the majority leave in frustration they are left with smaller and smaller elitist but... perhaps that's what the developers want, a very very small player base, easier to manage I guess??

Zama666

Entirely broken?

I've seen ball groups taken down faster than that.

It takes another go group of players, picking away, and using siege weapons.

It's a random occurrence, but directives e you run into people who just get it.

It's not broken, it's part of the game. I love taking them down!!!

loosej

jcaceresw wrote: »

Agreed. Wish I were part of ZOS staff to implement some ideas to make PVP more enjoyable for everyone instead of what we have now (software engineer here). But then again, the higher ups may block my proposals or try to pervert them into something that require to spend lots of crowns.

You want to make PVP enjoyable and are able to write sentences as you intended, so you probably wouldn't make it past the interview.

TheMajority

well usually it is DC who do ball groups so I don't feel a lot of sympathy

jcaceresw

loosej wrote: »

jcaceresw wrote: »

Agreed. Wish I were part of ZOS staff to implement some ideas to make PVP more enjoyable for everyone instead of what we have now (software engineer here). But then again, the higher ups may block my proposals or try to pervert them into something that require to spend lots of crowns.

You want to make PVP enjoyable and are able to write sentences as you intended, so you probably wouldn't make it past the interview.

Well, is their loss. I am describing something real in a corporate business.

AnduinTryggva

I really think they should cap the heal ticks that you can get in a group. It is simply unenjoyable if you have a ball group that is literally unkillable whether you spam it with sieges or with anything else.

BetweenMidgets

Oh no! Coordinating as a group in an MMO group play scenario.

AnduinTryggva

ZOS: If you don't do something fundamental against these unkillable ball groups you will kill pvp in the long run.

New players will not stay and therefore there will be no renewing of the player base.

Four_Fingers

If you form a coordinated group instead of all running around solo rambos you will do much better.

LadyLavina

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Since half an hour about 20+ dc players try to throw out an ep ball group out of a home keep.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

Not one single ep player died judging from chat messages, despite many many sieges inside firing at that ball group.

This is simply ridiculous.

Stacking of altruistic skills and buffs needs to be capped. irrespective of what it does.

Nope.

Typical cyrodiil rage thread is typical.

Coordinated groups in voice are always going to roll over pugs when attacking and effectively hold when defending.

LokiPagan

There's a big difference between a coordinated group and what's essentially an exploit - 12 players stacking echoing vigor and a dedicated healer or two stacking shields and heals. The group could essentially just stand there and heal through a nuclear bomb. I've seen 50+ players, with siege, pile onto a group like that and their health bars didn't drop. None of them. Absolutely invincible.

Literally the only thing to do is wait for them to get bored and log out. It's ridiculous, and Zenimax should have fixed it ages ago.

AnduinTryggva

LokiPagan wrote: »

There's a big difference between a coordinated group and what's essentially an exploit - 12 players stacking echoing vigor and a dedicated healer or two stacking shields and heals. The group could essentially just stand there and heal through a nuclear bomb. I've seen 50+ players, with siege, pile onto a group like that and their health bars didn't drop. None of them. Absolutely invincible.

Literally the only thing to do is wait for them to get bored and log out. It's ridiculous, and Zenimax should have fixed it ages ago.

Exactly. I can tell a coordinated group from a ball group. The problem is that with the current system it is really incentiving ball groups rather than just ordinary coordinated groups. This is why we continuously see more and more of these in any of the alliances. It is simply killing the cyrodiil game mode if nothing is done about it.

OsUfi

Snake in the Stars was our salvation, alas, it wasn't meant to be. A slightly toned down version of the original PTS Snake in the Stars would have gone a long way to combating ball groups. That was an unfortunate nerfing.

I imagine Snake with a lower cool down combined with Oakenfathers could do a good job of sniping out members of a ball group in an organized team without wrecking all co-ordinated group play.

Jaraal

OsUfi wrote: »

Snake in the Stars was our salvation, alas, it wasn't meant to be. A slightly toned down version of the original PTS Snake in the Stars would have gone a long way to combating ball groups. That was an unfortunate nerfing.

I imagine Snake with a lower cool down combined with Oakenfathers could do a good job of sniping out members of a ball group in an organized team without wrecking all co-ordinated group play.

Exactly.

Doing 1170 damage (halved by Battle Spirit) x X number of heals to ONE person in a 12 person ball group on a 12 second cooldown while they are getting healed 20-30-40k per tick and shielded just as much is trivial.

The concept is good, but the implementation is lacking.

L_Nici

One of the easiest ways to fix that insane healing would be to limit the stacking of heals. So if you use Vigor, no other stack of that can affect you, same with Radiant Regen or similar. It was said often, but never done.

AnduinTryggva

I fear that they refrain from doing it because the PvP uses exactly the same system as PvE and if they limit heal stacking in PvP they also automatically limit it in PvE which would break the entire PvE concept. Changing the link between PvP and PvE damage and heal system would topple everything developed up to now.

moderatelyfatman

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

I fear that they refrain from doing it because the PvP uses exactly the same system as PvE and if they limit heal stacking in PvP they also automatically limit it in PvE which would break the entire PvE concept. Changing the link between PvP and PvE damage and heal system would topple everything developed up to now.

I disagree with that. There's a lot less heal stacking in PvE in dungeons (1 healer) and in trials (2 healers). In the case of trials, the tanks will have their own burst stack heal which will not overlap with the healers. Furthermore, healers will often split their healing between the tank and the party.

The heal stacking would also only affect heals over time and not burst heals. A tank in vCR with the bleed can still receive multiple Combat Prayers to get them back up to full health.

MissAethe

If you're referring to Xbox NA Blackreach on March 29th, we were holding a memorial for our guildmaster who passed away (BRBB). All three alliances turned out and we had the entire Blue and Yellow bars locked from being full (we rode the emp circle in a massive 3 alliance zerg).

We ended with a siege salute when it was over with. No one fought at all between 1:30-3:30pm EST.

If that was what you experienced Saturday, that would be why.

AnduinTryggva

It is entirely broken.

I've been just witness of following mega-lame tactics by an ep ball group.

They run into a keep under siege. Wait for the keep to turn. Play their boring running up and down circus their health entirely ignoring meat throwers or cold fire balistas until the other fraction leaves or is dead. Then they simply turn it back.

ZOS: Is this what you had in mind when creating Cyrodiil?

Four_Fingers

Yes, taking a keep back is meant to happen.
Even better if they sneak in and hide till the keep flips and defenders rush off with the zerg then flip it back.
Tactics.

melvin10

It's much better to just ignore a ballgroup.

Vulkunne

melvin10 wrote: »

It's much better to just ignore a ballgroup.

This is really the only option.

Panthermic

melvin10 wrote: »

It's much better to just ignore a ballgroup.

Unfortunately, you can't, they don't let you. If people leave the keep they will move to the next keep where people fight to start their crap over, again, and again, and again, until people get so bored of them that everyone logs out. So unfortunately the "only" real option to ignore them is to log out.

kiwi_tea

The biggest issue here is nobody takes the time to understand siege.

Ball groups run siege shield for a reason, and even that isn't foolproof. Enough coordinated fire DoT siege, combined with scattershots at the right points, really does wipe ball groups. Even good ones. If they rush the ballista, fire at your feet.

Problem is, I don't think anyone wants to play that way, so they resort to trying to snipe and bomb. Ball groups should really only be issues in open field combat, if people learned how to do defensive siege. There's even a giant hole in tri-keeps where ballista can fire on the upper staircase and deny that T killzone up there.

LordOsiris

Then talk about the cheater addons in game if you wanna talk about a broken cyro game. The ballgroups are a welcome part of the game, no the fault of the ballgroup you don't know how to fight them. And is your fraction open for teamgaming? Negation and so on ...

About cheater addons: toxic-player addon is a cheater addon, as a fact. Focusing solo player to tbag and bull them with auto focusing with marker above their head is cheating cause solo player have nothing to defend it. They lag you out with overdoses of incoming dmg at the same time. Hater gaming it is to cheat with cheater addon. Another *** is localisation of single player, block them for gameplay cause some player think the game is only for their group. And this sieging and chasing ppl with sieges while they have marker above their head in a speed I wounder, am I now a bot or human.

I don't group in Cyro anymore. Getting foolished by ppl which wanna manipulate the scoreboard only, no, no fun for sure. You get hold up while the rest of the fraction sucks in all AP with pvdoor. C'mon. And more than that the *** crossover gaming ... "send some ppl here we can hold single player up". Don't take all the player for foolish, The fraction changements are unbalancing the game all the time because player is not player and if you change it all the time you are not able to have teamgaming!!! Then they need to rebalance sets to get game balanced.

The game is broken cause the leader lost fun telling strategies to newbies and then they change for other fraction. I wounder the producer can think about the *** they produced since One Tamirell with Cyro PvP. ZOS is supporting hater and cheater as a fact cause if you play in fraction you have to find your stand and not to change all times the fraction. No, the game is toxic by the game core and ZOS isn't able to fix it but puting even more fire in the debatte.

ForumBully

Heals stacking is bad for the game on several fronts. Zergs, solo, ballgroups...everyone benefits from ambient healing and the game performance suffers. It makes dedicated healers less valuable as a role, it is a massive computational drain and it's bad for the overall health of the game.
Ballgroups are just a glaring example of a bad mechanic in action and it's unfathomable why ZOS has allowed it to last so long.

Jaraal

ForumBully wrote: »

Ballgroups are just a glaring example of a bad mechanic in action and it's unfathomable why ZOS has allowed it to last so long.

When you ask yourself how it's possible to be stuck in combat after you died and are a mile away from any action, you will realize that anything is possible, and that anything else that some players deem unfathomable is likely to stay and stay unexplained for quite some time.