Major Maim

yadibroz

So how is it fair sorcerer has a good rework especially on Vibrant Shroud where it has major maim for especially 10 seconds but frozen device from warden stay the same for 4 second and it should change to enemies than enemy as well so yea how is that fair that sorcerer feel complete and warden still feel uncomplete?
the poison effect don't work well neither.

Necrotech_Master

the major maim from the ice staff taunt also lasts like 10 or 15 seconds, and something pretty common most tanks run nowadays

the warden gate primary use is the enemy teleport, not the debuffs

not sure what you mean by poison effect

yadibroz

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the major maim from the ice staff taunt also lasts like 10 or 15 seconds, and something pretty common most tanks run nowadays

the warden gate primary use is the enemy teleport, not the debuffs

not sure what you mean by poison effect

My main point is still not fair that sorcerer have a 10 second maim and warden don't and I really like frozen retreat to be like a drag enemies in instead of dragging one enemy in which is only more for pvp but if it was for enemies then the ability can work for pvp and pve much easier and people will use the ability more often because it dead and for maim be 4 second, is not enough time to react.

Necrotech_Master

the biggest problem with using the gate in pve is that a lot of enemies are immune to the teleport, which also means they are immune to the debuffs (the debuffs dont apply unless an enemy gets teleported)

i agree that the maim is too short, but i would argue more that maim is a pretty useless debuff for that skill to begin with, i would rather it do like major vuln to make the enemy take more dmg after you teleport them because they are disoriented (which makes more sense thematically)

but in terms of PVE, the gate will not work on anything that is immune to cc, which is every elite or boss type enemy

yadibroz

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the biggest problem with using the gate in pve is that a lot of enemies are immune to the teleport, which also means they are immune to the debuffs (the debuffs dont apply unless an enemy gets teleported)

i agree that the maim is too short, but i would argue more that maim is a pretty useless debuff for that skill to begin with, i would rather it do like major vuln to make the enemy take more dmg after you teleport them because they are disoriented (which makes more sense thematically)

but in terms of PVE, the gate will not work on anything that is immune to cc, which is every elite or boss type enemy

Yea you got some point on that, I really wish that now sorcerer feel complete like nightblade arcanist and also dk, they should do the same with warden,templar and especially necromancer.
Warden need a tiny skills rework with a execute skill, and templar need mostly restoration rework and necromancer need a execute and everything rework to make the game better.

El_Borracho

Between warden and sorcerers, warden has a superior toolkit for tanking. By far. To the point that difference wouldn't even be a consideration if I were building a new tank, because as @Necrotech_Master pointed out, you can just use Frost Clench.

For PVP, I'd rather have the teleport than the extra 6 seconds, but I could have both if I wanted to with Clench.

edward_frigidhands

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the major maim from the ice staff taunt also lasts like 10 or 15 seconds, and something pretty common most tanks run nowadays

the warden gate primary use is the enemy teleport, not the debuffs

not sure what you mean by poison effect

Major Main lasts 4 seconds. The taunt effect lasts 15.

Theist_VII

El_Borracho wrote: »

Between warden and sorcerers, warden has a superior toolkit for tanking. By far. To the point that difference wouldn't even be a consideration if I were building a new tank, because as @Necrotech_Master pointed out, you can just use Frost Clench.

For PVP, I'd rather have the teleport than the extra 6 seconds, but I could have both if I wanted to with Clench.

Sorcerer’s have everything you could possibly want from your tank except a class pull and a class taunt, which both are easily supplied outside of the kit.

They provide Major Berserk to the group with a cheap ultimate that stuns priority add pulls, in Atronach, they have a class root that applies Major Maim in Encase, a class penetration debuff in Crystal Weapon, some of the best survivability with the additional block mitigation provided by Bound Aegis, groupwide sustain buffs in the class ward, and top sustain through Dark Deal.

If anything, they are both really great options, and are both unique in what they provide, not necessarily better or worse than each other. Sorcerer is better for speed running while Warden is a choice pick for defensive utility.

YandereGirlfriend

Frozen Gate is a hot mess of a skill and it cries out for a complete re-work.

At the moment its biggest use is seen in PvP where trolls will try to pull you through keep doors, which rides the line between niche use case and clear exploit. And then Icy Escape is a pure troll skill that is only really useful for getting on top of the Craglorn wayshrine.

My idea for a re-work would be to give one morph to Warden DDs as their version of Mage's Guild flame rune. Have it apply like a 20-second Frost Damage sticky DOT to targets that enter the rune and then have it proc Chilled or something every tick. No pull on this morph.

It's hard to salvage the tank morph due to how many enemies are straight-up immune to being pulled but I agree that extending the Major Maim duration to something like 10 seconds would be a good place to start. And to have it proc even if the target was not pulled. Maybe also give it Major Brittle IF it successfully pulls a mob (so that you can get it for quick trash mob kills but not just spam it on a boss, which would be highly OP). Also allow the Gate to persist and pull multiple enemies that enter it rather than being removed after one enemy is pulled.