PvE Only: Stalking Blastbones VS Grave Lord's Sacrifice

DanteTheDeviant

Follow up to:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/654213/necromancer-skill-stalking-blastbones-vs-grave-lords-sacrifice/p1

Looking to see if player sentiment has changed since we've had time to try out the ability on live.

Which do you prefer?

OsUfi

Stalking Blastbones

1. Terrible follow up, as the first post has PvP and PvE. Why is this one PvE only?
2. We haven't all had a few weeks to get used to it. Console players would like a word.
3. One person who liked GLS left a comment in four pages. I see you like GLS, why not leave a comment in the other thread explaining your preference?

DanteTheDeviant

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

OsUfi wrote: »

1. Terrible follow up, as the first post has PvP and PvE. Why is this one PvE only?
2. We haven't all had a few weeks to get used to it. Console players would like a word.
3. One person who liked GLS left a comment in four pages. I see you like GLS, why not leave a comment in the other thread explaining your preference?

1. Because the change to the ability was for PvE damage rotations.
2. Fair point, I didn't consider console players. However, the majority of players are on PC, and the survey was asked 2 weeks ago, which is a lot of time for players to theory craft and actually test out the new ability.
3. I did leave a comment there in favor of GLS, but that doesn't show me what I want to know: have player opinions on the new ability changed any? I wanted to see if there was a measurable difference between the two surveys.

I feel as though you're being hostile in your response. My intention was not to trigger you, just to get data.

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

There hasn't been any change made to GLS other than a minor bugfix related to the Living Death ult. GLS still:

-Is a self-buff skill that has an in-combat requirement.
-Has its effect delayed due to it being tied to the Skeleton jumping to your player character. Skeleton that can be affected by CC/LoS.
-Forces you into using Flame Skull as a spammable.
-Hurts your sustain because of the lower uptime of Reusable Parts.
-Doesn't really makes your rotation easier, unless somehow Flame Skull x3 -> Boneyard/Siphon -> Fit this into the rest of your rotation is less demanding than BB -> Skill -> Skill.

DanteTheDeviant

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

Alaztor91 wrote: »

There hasn't been any change made to GLS other than a minor bugfix related to the Living Death ult. GLS still:

-Is a self-buff skill that has an in-combat requirement.
-Has its effect delayed due to it being tied to the Skeleton jumping to your player character. Skeleton which can be affected by CC/LoS.
-Forces you into using Flame Skull as a spammable.
-Hurts your sustain because of the lower uptime of Reusable Parts.
-Doesn't really makes your rotation easier, unless somehow Flame Skull x3 -> Boneyard/Siphon -> Fit this into the rest of your rotation is less demanding than Skill -> Skill -> BB.

I agree with that, it needs more adjustments:
1) Cast-able outside of combat
2) Should retain the Flame Skull AoE effect, but boost damage for all single target abilities, damage over time effects, and all necromancer class skills. This would allow you to choose between using any other single target spammable or using the Flame Skull.
3) Damage should be increased from 15% to 20%

I do disagree with you when you say it doesn't make your rotation easier:
The buff works for both bars rather than needing to swap to front bar every 2 skills to summon BB. Essentially, you can press the buttons in order 5 4 3 2 1, where 5 is your GLS, instead of 5 4 3 5 2 1 5 1 1, where 5 is BB and 1 is your spammable. Or at least I am able to do this with my current DoT focused setup with fire destro frontbar and dual wield backbar.

Alaztor91

Stalking Blastbones

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

I do disagree with you when you say it doesn't make your rotation easier:
The buff works for both bars rather than needing to swap to front bar every 2 skills to summon BB. Essentially, you can press the buttons in order 5 4 3 2 1, where 5 is your GLS, instead of 5 4 3 5 2 1 5 1 1, where 5 is BB and 1 is your spammable. Or at least I am able to do this with my current DoT focused setup with fire destro frontbar and dual wield backbar.

The rotation you describe is indeed easier than the old BB -> Skill -> Skill, however Boneyard/Siphon require a corpse to give their full effect/cast. When using GLS your only way of generating a corpse on target(not on top of you) is to cast Flame Skull 3x, the corpse generated by this boosted Flame Skull cast lasts only 6s on the ground before it despawns.

You can certainly just cast your DoTs and spam Flame Skull until you have to reapply your DoTs again but that isn't really taking full advantage of the bonus that GLS adds to Flame Skull, and I would assume it results in a lower parse compared to Blighted BB. Maybe someone figured a rotation that does take all of this into account(and is somehow easier than the pre U41 one), but I haven't seen a video/guide yet and every EC Necro that I have seen in ESO Logs is using Blighted BB.

Btw I'm just an average player, hardest PvE content I do is probably vet DLC dungeon with pugs.

DanteTheDeviant

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

Alaztor91 wrote: »

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

I do disagree with you when you say it doesn't make your rotation easier:
The buff works for both bars rather than needing to swap to front bar every 2 skills to summon BB. Essentially, you can press the buttons in order 5 4 3 2 1, where 5 is your GLS, instead of 5 4 3 5 2 1 5 1 1, where 5 is BB and 1 is your spammable. Or at least I am able to do this with my current DoT focused setup with fire destro frontbar and dual wield backbar.

The rotation you describe is indeed easier than the old BB -> Skill -> Skill, however Boneyard/Siphon require a corpse to give their full effect/cast. When using GLS your only way of generating a corpse on target(not on top of you) is to cast Flame Skull 3x, the corpse generated by this boosted Flame Skull cast lasts only 6s on the ground before it despawns.

You can certainly just cast your DoTs and spam Flame Skull until you have to reapply your DoTs again but that isn't really taking full advantage of the bonus that GLS adds to Flame Skull, and I would assume it results in a lower parse compared to Blighted BB. Maybe someone figured a rotation that does take all of this into account(and is somehow easier than the pre U41 one), but I haven't seen a video/guide yet and every EC Necro that I have seen in ESO Logs is using Blighted BB.

Btw I'm just an average player, hardest PvE content I do is probably vet DLC dungeon with pugs.

While I'm no expert myself and I don't have a Trial target dummy to have the major minor buffs to practice on, I am able to hit about 30k dps with my current rotation without fully upgraded gear and without proper gear traits on a vampire thrall target dummy.

Here's my frontbar rotation with the ability slot number in parentheses:
Light Attack into Cast GLS (5)
Light Attack into Cast Summon Skeletal Mage (4)
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Heavy Attack Fire Destro into Cast Mystic Siphon (2)
Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) 6 times
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Depending on your back bar setup, you may need to Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) once more
Then Bar Swap

Casting GLS first and weaving the heavy attack in the rotation give just enough time for the corpse to spawn from GLS, allowing you to animation cancel the heavy attack with the Mystic Siphon cast. Important to note though, if your GLS skeleton is cc'd, the rotation is messed up, so that's another thing I agree with you on that needs addressed.

Rasande_Robin

Stalking Blastbones

They need to scrap the whole idea about GLS...

Back to the drawing board.

I have some ideas but who's gonna read them anyways.


Idea:

Stalking phantom, spawns like usual but acts like a homing missile going through walls. Starts slow and speeds up. Will only generate a corpse if there is a "graveyard" skill placed where it explodes.

Skill can't be targeted/stunned or killed.

chessalavakia_ESO

I think if you'd be better off waiting a couple weeks for console players to get to use it more and running the poll again with activity options for people's vote to see how much the content people do influences how they vote.

Araneae6537

Stalking Blastbones

To me, it doesn’t fit thematically at all to summon a skeleton that then jumps you. There are already bone armor and totem skills — why wasn’t a buff added to one of these rather than taking away one of necro’s few minions? Second, I never liked throwing skulls and use scythe or a weapon skill if I need a spammable.

Unless I’m running harder content in an optimized group, in which case I’ll use what’s needed, I choose skills in part based on what I like thematically for a character, which is why I no longer have any nightblade DPS since perma-red focus irradiated glow didn’t fit any of them.

CameraBeardThePirate

Stalking Blastbones

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

I do disagree with you when you say it doesn't make your rotation easier:
The buff works for both bars rather than needing to swap to front bar every 2 skills to summon BB. Essentially, you can press the buttons in order 5 4 3 2 1, where 5 is your GLS, instead of 5 4 3 5 2 1 5 1 1, where 5 is BB and 1 is your spammable. Or at least I am able to do this with my current DoT focused setup with fire destro frontbar and dual wield backbar.

The rotation you describe is indeed easier than the old BB -> Skill -> Skill, however Boneyard/Siphon require a corpse to give their full effect/cast. When using GLS your only way of generating a corpse on target(not on top of you) is to cast Flame Skull 3x, the corpse generated by this boosted Flame Skull cast lasts only 6s on the ground before it despawns.

You can certainly just cast your DoTs and spam Flame Skull until you have to reapply your DoTs again but that isn't really taking full advantage of the bonus that GLS adds to Flame Skull, and I would assume it results in a lower parse compared to Blighted BB. Maybe someone figured a rotation that does take all of this into account(and is somehow easier than the pre U41 one), but I haven't seen a video/guide yet and every EC Necro that I have seen in ESO Logs is using Blighted BB.

Btw I'm just an average player, hardest PvE content I do is probably vet DLC dungeon with pugs.

While I'm no expert myself and I don't have a Trial target dummy to have the major minor buffs to practice on, I am able to hit about 30k dps with my current rotation without fully upgraded gear and without proper gear traits on a vampire thrall target dummy.

Here's my frontbar rotation with the ability slot number in parentheses:
Light Attack into Cast GLS (5)
Light Attack into Cast Summon Skeletal Mage (4)
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Heavy Attack Fire Destro into Cast Mystic Siphon (2)
Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) 6 times
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Depending on your back bar setup, you may need to Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) once more
Then Bar Swap

Casting GLS first and weaving the heavy attack in the rotation give just enough time for the corpse to spawn from GLS, allowing you to animation cancel the heavy attack with the Mystic Siphon cast. Important to note though, if your GLS skeleton is cc'd, the rotation is messed up, so that's another thing I agree with you on that needs addressed.

This rotation also only works on a parse or in melee range.

Outside of melee range, there will not be a corpse at the target's feet to cast siphon.

DanteTheDeviant

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

Alaztor91 wrote: »

DanteTheDeviant wrote: »

I do disagree with you when you say it doesn't make your rotation easier:
The buff works for both bars rather than needing to swap to front bar every 2 skills to summon BB. Essentially, you can press the buttons in order 5 4 3 2 1, where 5 is your GLS, instead of 5 4 3 5 2 1 5 1 1, where 5 is BB and 1 is your spammable. Or at least I am able to do this with my current DoT focused setup with fire destro frontbar and dual wield backbar.

The rotation you describe is indeed easier than the old BB -> Skill -> Skill, however Boneyard/Siphon require a corpse to give their full effect/cast. When using GLS your only way of generating a corpse on target(not on top of you) is to cast Flame Skull 3x, the corpse generated by this boosted Flame Skull cast lasts only 6s on the ground before it despawns.

You can certainly just cast your DoTs and spam Flame Skull until you have to reapply your DoTs again but that isn't really taking full advantage of the bonus that GLS adds to Flame Skull, and I would assume it results in a lower parse compared to Blighted BB. Maybe someone figured a rotation that does take all of this into account(and is somehow easier than the pre U41 one), but I haven't seen a video/guide yet and every EC Necro that I have seen in ESO Logs is using Blighted BB.

Btw I'm just an average player, hardest PvE content I do is probably vet DLC dungeon with pugs.

While I'm no expert myself and I don't have a Trial target dummy to have the major minor buffs to practice on, I am able to hit about 30k dps with my current rotation without fully upgraded gear and without proper gear traits on a vampire thrall target dummy.

Here's my frontbar rotation with the ability slot number in parentheses:
Light Attack into Cast GLS (5)
Light Attack into Cast Summon Skeletal Mage (4)
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Heavy Attack Fire Destro into Cast Mystic Siphon (2)
Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) 6 times
Light Attack into Cast Unstable Wall of Fire (3)
Depending on your back bar setup, you may need to Light Attack into Cast Flame Skull (1) once more
Then Bar Swap

Casting GLS first and weaving the heavy attack in the rotation give just enough time for the corpse to spawn from GLS, allowing you to animation cancel the heavy attack with the Mystic Siphon cast. Important to note though, if your GLS skeleton is cc'd, the rotation is messed up, so that's another thing I agree with you on that needs addressed.

This rotation also only works on a parse or in melee range.

Outside of melee range, there will not be a corpse at the target's feet to cast siphon.

For the first rotation, to get max dps, you must be in melee range. Though that's not a problem for me since I have to use barbed trap and rending slashes on my backbar for applying bleed DoTs and hem status.

LunaFlora

Grave Lord's Sacrifice

i like Gravelord's Sacrifice for the damage over time buff.
i hardly ever used Stalking Blastbones before this due to how often it needed to be cast