Vateshran Destro Staff "Wrath of Elements" is too Strong

Vulkunne

Vateshran Destro Staff "Wrath of Elements" is too Strong

It seems like more and more I'm running into players using this and I'm just not understanding why this weapon has to be so strong. I've run into several situations where the person isn't even fighting me proper, they're just shuffling and letting the staff slowly kill me and healing. I don't think the game really needs something like this. You're rewarding people for being lazy and not actually using their class and skills for what they're meant for and punishing the rest of us for not using this gimmick.

I really think this weapon needs a rework and no set in this game should more or less play the game for you. Its really disappointing either dying or having to flee simply while the other guy isn't even trying. They just sit there with this staff blazing, using a few dmg skills and healing while there's nothing I can do. I can't even get close to someone using this on my NB.

This is cancerous, even though Vateshran itself present a great challenge, this is too much. This is not the PvP that I signed up for. It basically turns the person using it into like a one-man ball group and they cannot be reasonably dealt with. Especially for those of us who either don't have or don't want this massive unfair advantage. And speaking of ball groups, I think this game has some major balance issues and its sad that these are being ignored instead of addressed in some way, even if its just collecting data on the problem. Things like this and ball groups are good reasons why people hate PvP in this game.

And as some know I used to be a really strong PvP advocate however over time this is slowly fading away as there are just too many strong gimmicks in this game and no reasonable counter to them. There's no reason anyone should have a weapon that fights for them like this. Its just over the top too strong and another reason I'm continuing to learn to hate PvP with this game. Also, the lack of concern and feedback from the dev Team regarding PvP related issues does not inspire confidence, especially with many threads pointing out issues (some more so than this one) getting pulled and tucked away, never to be seen or heard from again.

Not good ZOS, no matter what anyone thinks of us for saying something.

Wrath of Elements

(2 items) Casting Weakness to Elements on a target within 15 meters of you causes a surge of elemental energy to tether between you for 10 seconds. While the tether persists, enemies touching the tether take 331 Flame Damage 331 Shock Damage, or 331 Frost Damage every 1 second, which increases by 1% each time it deals damage, up to 20%. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds, and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

jaws343

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

Vulkunne

jaws343 wrote: »

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

How can I move away when they have buffed move speed. That is a problem with this also so thanks for mentioning.

But yeah they're moving so fast you can't get away, you can't block it. There's very little that can be done really. Especially for an average player which gives them a massive advantage without even trying.

jaws343

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

How can I move away when they gap close or have buffed move speed. That is a problem too so thanks for mentioning that also.

You stun them first...

Vulkunne

jaws343 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

How can I move away when they gap close or have buffed move speed. That is a problem too so thanks for mentioning that also.

You stun them first...

Nope doesn't help. I have a sword and board build which includes a stun and it does no good. Even if its on cool down this thing is so strong I'm burning thru recovery pots and resources while they're only on cool down.

So no that does not help. I just got thru fighting a couple players with this this morning and last night. Stunning is not a good solution. I'm still at a massive disadvantage and they just waiting to counter.

sarahthes

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

How can I move away when they gap close or have buffed move speed. That is a problem too so thanks for mentioning that also.

You stun them first...

Nope doesn't help. I have a sword and board build which includes a stun and it does no good. Even if its on cool down this thing is so strong I'm burning thru recovery pots and resources while they're only on cool down.

So no that does not help. I just got thru fighting a couple players with this this morning and last night. Stunning is not a good solution.

With all due respect it's a problem with your build, in that case.

Vulkunne

sarahthes wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Just stun them and then move away to break the tether. It'll put the proc on a cooldown.

How can I move away when they gap close or have buffed move speed. That is a problem too so thanks for mentioning that also.

You stun them first...

Nope doesn't help. I have a sword and board build which includes a stun and it does no good. Even if its on cool down this thing is so strong I'm burning thru recovery pots and resources while they're only on cool down.

So no that does not help. I just got thru fighting a couple players with this this morning and last night. Stunning is not a good solution.

With all due respect it's a problem with your build, in that case.

With all due respect, I didn't post my build so how can you reach this conclusion. I'll wait.

xDeusEJRx

In my opinion, I don't think it's the set that is too strong. It's the associated skills that are too strong. Elemental susceptibility specifically proc'ing it is too strong of a free skill and if you add more damage onto that free skill it hits absurdly hard for a skill with no cost associated with it.

I think wrath of elements would be ok if they actually tone back to strength of elemental susceptibility.

JerBearESO

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Vulkunne

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

In my opinion, I don't think it's the set that is too strong. It's the associated skills that are too strong. Elemental susceptibility specifically proc'ing it is too strong of a free skill and if you add more damage onto that free skill it hits absurdly hard for a skill with no cost associated with it.

I think wrath of elements would be ok if they actually tone back to strength of elemental susceptibility.

Yep it could def be revised because the way it is now there are too many ways to capitalize. So I agree with this perspective. But altogether it makes for a bad experience. I hope they listen if not to me, maybe listen to others who are also tired of dealing with things like this.

That's just alot of free damage with little to no real downside (that I can see).

Vulkunne

JerBearESO wrote: »

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Again, you have to get away from them first. I already said that I know for a fact the last (3) players had buffed move speed. I was on a DK and I use a mini-map mod so I can measure my move speed. And they were moving much faster. At least 15 to 20% so. There's no breaking los or getting away from that.

Nothing I can do. A periodic stun from 1H & Shield was not going to do much. Which almost everyone uses some form of CC anyways so it could be assumed I'm stunning them. They heal thru any damage done, because they have the resources to do so right? And let the staff do the damage.

Its too strong.

Solariken

I've said before that the way I'd address it is Vate staff should have no cool down and maybe the damage reduced slightly, but the tether should break if you swap to a bar without Ele Sus/Drain.

This would at least limit the effectiveness of using it on your back bar / defensive bar, which is what almost everyone is doing with Vate Ice. I don't think it would be nearly as meta if you had to spend more GCDs to keep it up and had to fit Ele Sus on your front bar.

DigiAngel

Bow + Magnum/Scatter shot....will push 8 meters away and stun....pretty sure that should work.

xylena_lazarow

It doesn't carry builds on its own, in fact it does pretty much nothing in isolation, rather it's part of a synergistic build package, and as others pointed out there's a variety of pretty easy ways to counter it.

Sakiri

Vulkunne wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Again, you have to get away from them first. I already said that I know for a fact the last (3) players had buffed move speed. I was on a DK and I use a mini-map mod so I can measure my move speed. And they were moving much faster. At least 15 to 20% so. There's no breaking los or getting away from that.

Nothing I can do. A periodic stun from 1H & Shield was not going to do much. Which almost everyone uses some form of CC anyways so it could be assumed I'm stunning them. They heal thru any damage done, because they have the resources to do so right? And let the staff do the damage.

Its too strong.

1h shield is your problem. You're tanking in pvp.

And there's many ways to get move speed. This just screams pebcak.

Vulkunne

Sakiri wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Again, you have to get away from them first. I already said that I know for a fact the last (3) players had buffed move speed. I was on a DK and I use a mini-map mod so I can measure my move speed. And they were moving much faster. At least 15 to 20% so. There's no breaking los or getting away from that.

Nothing I can do. A periodic stun from 1H & Shield was not going to do much. Which almost everyone uses some form of CC anyways so it could be assumed I'm stunning them. They heal thru any damage done, because they have the resources to do so right? And let the staff do the damage.

Its too strong.

1h shield is your problem. You're tanking in pvp.

And there's many ways to get move speed. This just screams pebcak.

Well if you noticed from one of my previous posts, I'm already aware that move speed can be buffed in many ways. So there's no need to mention that. It goes without saying movespeed is part of the problem because they can either keep up with me or are simply faster. Noticeably so in a couple cases. So 1H isn't a problem. I'm not sure where that is even coming from. I can fight effectively with 1H and you have no evidence to suggest I can't. Again, no build was posted and 1H can be effective in PvP.

When I PvP, I'm one of those guys whose not interested in ball group or gimmicks or instant win exploits or heavy amounts of CC. I like a fair fight and like I said, they're getting a ton of free damage using vat staff and as the other guy mentioned there's also the synergy component. I'm curious though, what's wrong with being tanky in PvP? Especially as opposed to 7 - 15 people standing in the back of a zerg beaming and CCing me to death, risking nothing and really more trolling than PvPing. If you think about it. Is that what we should be doing instead of being tanky Sakiri? Cause I'd really like to know. Maybe that's what I should do too. We'll all laser each other down in a medieval ages warfare environment, paying no attention to any other skill.

This is not a builds issue and I wish you guys would stop saying that. Its a damage issue really as I have for my part, not playing a role, not better than anyone else but many times I've been known to 1v1 or 1v2 with relative ease using 1H. And I wish the game would get back to knowing your class more than getting free damage from broken or exploitive sources, including heavy arcanist CC and more.

To me that's just not PvP. You're not even trying and I'm tired of losing to people who have to rely on something else rather than learning the game proper.

sarahthes

Sakiri wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Again, you have to get away from them first. I already said that I know for a fact the last (3) players had buffed move speed. I was on a DK and I use a mini-map mod so I can measure my move speed. And they were moving much faster. At least 15 to 20% so. There's no breaking los or getting away from that.

Nothing I can do. A periodic stun from 1H & Shield was not going to do much. Which almost everyone uses some form of CC anyways so it could be assumed I'm stunning them. They heal thru any damage done, because they have the resources to do so right? And let the staff do the damage.

Its too strong.

1h shield is your problem. You're tanking in pvp.

And there's many ways to get move speed. This just screams pebcak.

Exactly. To beat a tank you whittle down their resources.

Now, ele sus is too strong on its own, and does a ton of damage, and has zero cost. So your opponents are hitting you FOR FREE with all those buffed status effects. That's more of the issue than the vate staff itself.

Personally, I can tank the vate staff and survive in my build. LOS, cc, there's plenty of options.

Vulkunne

sarahthes wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

If "they just sit there" letting the proc do all the work, then logically you are not using LoS to counter the proc?

It is, in fact, the ability they use with the proc that is too strong. The proc itself is actually incredibly balanced as it has an absolute counterplay aspect, LoS

Again, you have to get away from them first. I already said that I know for a fact the last (3) players had buffed move speed. I was on a DK and I use a mini-map mod so I can measure my move speed. And they were moving much faster. At least 15 to 20% so. There's no breaking los or getting away from that.

Nothing I can do. A periodic stun from 1H & Shield was not going to do much. Which almost everyone uses some form of CC anyways so it could be assumed I'm stunning them. They heal thru any damage done, because they have the resources to do so right? And let the staff do the damage.

Its too strong.

1h shield is your problem. You're tanking in pvp.

And there's many ways to get move speed. This just screams pebcak.

Exactly. To beat a tank you whittle down their resources.

Now, ele sus is too strong on its own, and does a ton of damage, and has zero cost. So your opponents are hitting you FOR FREE with all those buffed status effects. That's more of the issue than the vate staff itself.

Personally, I can tank the vate staff and survive in my build. LOS, cc, there's plenty of options.

That's not a bad way to look at it actually.

Except I'm not really Tanking per say. But that's an interesting way to put it. I'm quite frankly surprised though that I could not actually Tank it as I can deal with alot.

But still I think thats too much damage without even trying.

Vulkunne

Thank you for your responses.

Have a good day folks.

moo_2021

are you not using bash build with 1h??


stun, immobilize, bash and power slam should be able to outmatch the damage easily.

Quethrosar

what makes me angry is how these beams and other in flight skills hit me around corners. can't count how many times i've tried to hide behind something but the beams go through the wall or i get hit by some flying skill after i am around a wall.

huskandhunger

@Vulkunne what class are you?

Aldoss

This has little to do with the Vate staff and everything to do with Ele Sus being one of the most overloaded skills in the game with its free cost.

Make Ele Sus have a cost or decrease the overwhelming power you get for free and at max range and you'll see a decrease in power and use of this staff.

xylena_lazarow

Aldoss wrote: »

This has little to do with the Vate staff and everything to do with Ele Sus being one of the most overloaded skills in the game with its free cost. Make Ele Sus have a cost or decrease the overwhelming power you get for free and at max range and you'll see a decrease in power and use of this staff.

Sus doesn't carry builds on its own, nobody dies to Sus on its own. It requires slotting a specific weapon.

Instead, add/buff class sources of Major Breach, and less players will feel compelled to use Sus.