Why most TESO streamers never do dungeon hard modes?

Dragonnord

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

XSTRONG

I would say most Eso streamers do PvP

GooGa592

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

ShatteredRose6

A lot of streamers do dungeon HMs and trials HMs during the time iam on (OCE/ASIA) , I've had the pleasure of doing them with wonderfull and absolutely delightfull streamers during that time. I've even had the opportunity to become friends and run a lot of HMs.

edited for grammer

Soarora

I’m not sure about how common streaming is, but I know people upload their trifectas on YouTube.

colossalvoids

Maybe ask them, not forums.

tomofhyrule

I don't stream, but I know a few.

The big thing is focus. When you're streaming, you do have a bit of an expectation to interact with your audience. People are typing in chat, you need to look out for (or have your mods take care of) bots or offensive posters, answer questions that come up, or just try to make the viewers feel welcome... or else they'll leave and go to a channel that they do feel welcome.

Obviously running harder content does take a bit of focus as well. So if you're doing a HM dungeon and have to spend your time focusing on the content and not the chat, then you're not doing your job as a streamer.

That's the reason why it's a lot more common to see easier content (or at least bursty things like PvP) on stream, where long content that requires you to be hard focused will be more suited to a prerecorded YouTube video format. It's also why the PvP streams you do see are more casual zerg-y groups, because if you're in a highly-coordinated ball, your lead is not going to be happy with you dividing your attention.

You also don't see much questing on stream either, or at least not questing from people who will play out the whole story. Again, if someone's going for the full 'let's-listen-to-all-the-dialogue' experience, that means they're not really talking to chat because they're just letting the game go. Whereas on YouTube, there are a lot of people who can silently run out the dialogue since they don't need to interact with the audience in the middle of it.

Warhawke_80

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

Dungeon vids just aren't that popular...honestly not many people in the community even bothers with them.. I remember Rich ( Or was it Finn?) saying back when ZoS dropped to Turning out just one Trial per year that only a few percent of the total player base participates in them and they were some of the most expensive content to make...ESO just isn't like WoW or FFXIV where Dungeons are a lynchpin of playing...besides if you have one streamer doing it a lot there isn't much reason for the others to jump on board since ther is so few people actually interested.

Lumsdenml

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

U35 had very little actual affect on damage. It's one of those things that people just believe and repeat.

Nharimlur_Finor

Dragonnord wrote: »

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them
 

Well, you placed question mark at the end of your title statement.
Then you contradicted yourself in the middle of your post.

I have never played hard-mode anything, because I play to have fun, not to work hard.
I don't watch You-Tube streamers, because I the other bloke* is getting the money, not me.

I hope that helped resolve whatever your problem was.
If not, it's possibly because streamers don't actually want to WORK for their money.

* bloke refers to 'player', regardless of any gender preconceptions

redspecter23

I will occasionally do HM on stream, but as mentioned earlier, many streamers will choose to focus on chat interactions over the gameplay. This is my take most times.

I'm there to entertain as a priority. The content is a backdrop for that. If it starts to push me to focus face to the point that I lose track of chat, it's not something I'm interested in doing on a regular basis. I leave it as an occasional thing.

TaSheen

LaintalAy wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them
 

Well, you placed question mark at the end of your title statement.
Then you contradicted yourself in the middle of your post.

I have never played hard-mode anything, because I play to have fun, not to work hard.
I don't watch You-Tube streamers, because I the other bloke* is getting the money, not me.

I hope that helped resolve whatever your problem was.
If not, it's possibly because streamers don't actually want to WORK for their money.

* bloke refers to 'player', regardless of any gender preconceptions

Yup. Exactly. Awesome!

SeaGtGruff

Lumsdenml wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

U35 had very little actual affect on damage. It's one of those things that people just believe and repeat.

Totally agree with you.

Elsonso

Lumsdenml wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

U35 had very little actual affect on damage. It's one of those things that people just believe and repeat.

It is undeniable that it had a negative impact on the end game community, and that there are some who made it a point to make sure people were aware that they were dissatisfied and leaving.

JanTanhide

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

Yep. U35 was the worst update ever in my opinion. Most people I played ESO with left and never returned. I left for almost a year because of U35. Thousands of high level CP players that ran Carrys for Vet content shut down their Discord channels and disbanded. Many Content Creators with Youtube and Twitch channels ended streaming ESO due to that update and many made quite a few videos about it.

SaffronCitrusflower

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

Yep. Nefas did a very thorough video explaining why so many end game players left with U35. And ZOS changed nothing in response to the very significant decline in the veteran player base.

SaffronCitrusflower

Lumsdenml wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Almost all, if not all streamers I watch (and I watch a lot of different TESO streamers) never ever do dungeon hard modes.

They just do the regular vet runs and never go the next step with their viewers.

Please don't tell me they do because they don't. Yes, some do, but just a few of them.

So why is this?

With few exceptions, people can never learn hard mode mechs from watching streamers.
 

U35 killed PvE end game and even most PvP streamers moved on then as well. There's still a few stragglers left, but most all the main streamers threw in the towel with U35.

U35 had very little actual affect on damage. It's one of those things that people just believe and repeat.

Not true. As others have pointed out, many videos were posted on youtube about U35 and are still there for anyone who takes the time to look them up. U35 gutted the end game community, most especially the primary content creators who posted the how to videos for completing hard mode dungeons and trials threw in the towel after U35.

Soarora

As I say, AWA killed dungeon endgame, U35 killed trial endgame. They’ll never recover.

fizzylu

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Dungeon vids just aren't that popular...honestly not many people in the community even bothers with them.. I remember Rich ( Or was it Finn?) saying back when ZoS dropped to Turning out just one Trial per year that only a few percent of the total player base participates in them and they were some of the most expensive content to make...ESO just isn't like WoW or FFXIV where Dungeons are a lynchpin of playing...besides if you have one streamer doing it a lot there isn't much reason for the others to jump on board since ther is so few people actually interested.

I love how their go-to is to cut content, haha. I don't do trials, but that's because there's no reason for me to. I mean, other than set farming and/or one achievement reward (title, skin, etc).... what is the point? Yes, I like a challenge.... but as a MMO player, I just naturally weigh the costs and benefits of completing a challenge. And sadly with ESO, there's usually no benefit for putting the time and effort into things like trials+HM vet. Meanwhile in WoW and FFXIV, doing endgame group PvE content almost always has a purpose and feels far more rewarding. They even tie some dungeons and raids to quests to get more players doing them too.

colossalvoids

fizzylu wrote: »

Warhawke_80 wrote: »

Dungeon vids just aren't that popular...honestly not many people in the community even bothers with them.. I remember Rich ( Or was it Finn?) saying back when ZoS dropped to Turning out just one Trial per year that only a few percent of the total player base participates in them and they were some of the most expensive content to make...ESO just isn't like WoW or FFXIV where Dungeons are a lynchpin of playing...besides if you have one streamer doing it a lot there isn't much reason for the others to jump on board since ther is so few people actually interested.

I love how their go-to is to cut content, haha. I don't do trials, but that's because there's no reason for me to. I mean, other than set farming and/or one achievement reward (title, skin, etc).... what is the point? Yes, I like a challenge.... but as a MMO player, I just naturally weigh the costs and benefits of completing a challenge. And sadly with ESO, there's usually no benefit for putting the time and effort into things like trials+HM vet. Meanwhile in WoW and FFXIV, doing endgame group PvE content almost always has a purpose and feels far more rewarding. They even tie some dungeons and raids to quests to get more players doing them too.

That's kinda comical that they've made an endgame content not needed for character progression in any meaningful way and are surprised that people aren't strive to move there. Like, obviously, wasn't that the whole point of yours?

fizzylu

@colossalvoids
What's really funny about it to me is that I do like that endgame PvE content isn't mandatory for character progression (like gearing in WoW) and I wouldn't even say it needs to be, but there has to be something to make it worthwhile. Even people who play WoW and FFXIV, they don't just do the challenging endgame PvE for gear.... they do it for mounts, pets, titles, armor+weapon appearances, story progression, quests/dailies farming (some that even reward a currency for vendors that sell other collectibles), and etc.
As it is now in ESO, if someone isn't actually trying to get a specific armor set that they want to use, players walk away from trials and HM vet dungeons with some gear to decon that gives the same mats that any other content does, maybe an exclusive style material that can sell for 30-90k gold, a few hundred gold (a thousand+ if one is lucky) from vendoring ornate gear+trash they loot, and extra maybe a motif page that could be worth something or nothing. And most people I know would just buy these off a guild trader or even the crown store before farming them.
And I do think the crown store+"optional" sub format is what limits the amount of actual cool things we get as rewards from playing the game (mount/pet drops, etc).... but even the Undaunted pledges. I haven't done them in years, and why? Because I don't need the keys for the sets.... but I do always need gold. I mean, seriously.... if I was even just assured 500k-1m gold for completing a trial or vet dungeon on HM, I would do so along with plenty of people I know. But instead of adding more dailies or a bounty system feature via the Undaunted, Zenimax just stops putting as much into their take on endgame group PvE content.... something that is a fundamental part of MMOs. It's just wild, haha.

Rkindaleft

I definitely agree that U35 significantly reduced the number of people who were streaming high level PvE content, but I don't think that's the only reason.

As someone who watches a number of other streamers across other game franchises such as Pokémon or RuneScape, I believe people want to watch a streamer who isn't just playing the game they want to see but is actively engaging with their audience.

For example, someone who streams themselves doing Godslayer progression isn't likely going to be talking to/interacting with their viewers because not paying 100% attention to the gameplay usually means they're probably going to die and ruin the run, which at that point it's just you watching someone else play a game with zero interactivity which is just boring.

CrazyKitty

Most of the people that created the tutorials for the toughest content left the game and no longer make tutorials for ESO after U35. They warned ZOS they would leave before U35 dropped after seeing the changes on PTS. ZOS changed almost nothing in response to their feedback, so they left. And now we don't have access to the same quality tutorials for the toughest content in the game that we used to have. Nobody can say they didn't see it coming.