Is invigorating a weak trait?

Kite42 · March 21

I find sustain to be typically either fine, or specific to one resource which I can then aim to improve.

The invigorating trait seems not only weak per piece, but further weakened by being 'rainbow' across all 3 resources.

Is it a PvP thing, or a PvE thing I can't see? Am I missing something here?

KS_Amt38 · March 21

Weakest trait, dont use it.

Araneae6537 · March 21

No, you’re not missing anything. As far as I know, invigorating has always been the least desired trait and isn’t used for anything.

smackinhippies · March 21

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Necrotech_Master · March 21

sustain is good, but generally speaking you dont need a lot of it unless you pvp, and generally for pvp you might want to have other traits

in pve you dont really need much sustain, especially if you are running a HA build, and i find divines to be a more flexible trait as you can adjust the bonus with mundus stones (such as giving more recovery for a particular stat that might be more use in your build)

Nestor · March 21

The only purpose of the Invigorating Trait is to research it so you know more traits so you can craft better sets.

MashmalloMan · March 21

I would honestly use it if it was at least 32(double) per piece. I currently prefer 6-7 well fitted in pvp, 1-0 reinforced. Well fitted is technically a "sustain" trait too, but it gives up to 42% less dodge roll cost. Invig only gives up to 112 stam/mag regen which is not even close to comparable. 1 piece of a double regen Monster set piece gives 129 stam/mag regen, so there is very little reason to use Invigorating unless it can replace the 1 piece (129x2), a Jewelry enchant (170-270ish), or food (360ish x1-2).

Hapexamendios · March 21

smackinhippies wrote: »

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Agreed. The amount of regen you get is too ridiculously low to be of any use.

the1andonlyskwex · March 21

It's technically more stat dense than divines. The problem is that most people either don't need any more sustain, only need single-resource sustain, or need so much sustain that they need to get it from something stronger than an armor trait.

Finedaible · March 21

The only way I would consider using Invigorating trait is if I had already met my stat goals elsewhere in the build, which has not happened in several years now, and certainly not in late game setups.

I think is there were still soft caps on certain stats then invigorating trait might have had a more attractive use for padding out a build. If the trait's power budget was only split between stam and mag then it would not be as bad.

Dragonredux · March 21

Worthless trait. Only used for the last trait to research.

NyassaV · March 21

smackinhippies wrote: »

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Impen was actually better for gold farming cuz it reduced repair costs.

smackinhippies · March 21

NyassaV wrote: »

smackinhippies wrote: »

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Impen was actually better for gold farming cuz it reduced repair costs.

Ha, I never thought about that. I always assumed it meant your armor wouldn't break down from player damage, only npc damage.

virtus753 · March 21

smackinhippies wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

smackinhippies wrote: »

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Impen was actually better for gold farming cuz it reduced repair costs.

Ha, I never thought about that. I always assumed it meant your armor wouldn't break down from player damage, only npc damage.

Your armor doesn’t break down from damage taken from other players anyhow. It breaks down from your PvE deaths (to mobs/the environment) and from gaining xp from kills. I seem to recall breaking a piece of gear while turning in master writs once, but it isn’t frequent for me. Maybe the degradation is so low I don’t notice it, or maybe that was a bug.

Carcamongus · March 21

virtus753 wrote: »

smackinhippies wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

smackinhippies wrote: »

I think the trait it replaced, prosperous, had more use to it..

Impen was actually better for gold farming cuz it reduced repair costs.

Ha, I never thought about that. I always assumed it meant your armor wouldn't break down from player damage, only npc damage.

Your armor doesn’t break down from damage taken from other players anyhow. It breaks down from your PvE deaths (to mobs/the environment) and from gaining xp from kills. I seem to recall breaking a piece of gear while turning in master writs once, but it isn’t frequent for me. Maybe the degradation is so low I don’t notice it, or maybe that was a bug.

More than once a piece of armor broke after I hit something with an arrow. At first that made me vow never to buy my gear from reputable stores such as Goocci and Harmani again. Then I realized it was just another silly aspect of the game, a "feature" instead of a bug.

On the thread's topic, I suppose there must always be that one trait that's borderline (maybe I'm being kind) useless. How about replacing it with "sneaky", the trait that makes you less visible, but only when you're alone at night?

tsaescishoeshiner · March 21

Even when sustain was a bigger issue, Invigorating wasn't used. Even in PvP, where both mag and stam recovery are important, invigorating isn't really used. I think it's just low numbers.

For example, using 7 Divines with the Atronach Stone gives you 300 Magicka Recovery, which is then buffed by other sources to reach up to 400 or more in practice.

7 Invigorating gives you less than 80 tri-stat recovery, so 240 total before buffs, which is not great, and health recovery doesn't really count because it's not an important part of most builds. Edit: See below for the right numbers

the1andonlyskwex · March 22

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Even when sustain was a bigger issue, Invigorating wasn't used. Even in PvP, where both mag and stam recovery are important, invigorating isn't really used. I think it's just low numbers.

For example, using 7 Divines with the Atronach Stone gives you 300 Magicka Recovery, which is then buffed by other sources to reach up to 400 or more in practice.

7 Invigorating gives you less than 80 tri-stat recovery, so 240 total before buffs, which is not great, and health recovery doesn't really count because it's not an important part of most builds.

Your numbers are super wrong. Seven invigorating is 112 x 3 stats, while seven divines with the Atronach stone is 197 x 1 stat, and both benefit from all of the same other buffs.

tsaescishoeshiner · March 22

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

Even when sustain was a bigger issue, Invigorating wasn't used. Even in PvP, where both mag and stam recovery are important, invigorating isn't really used. I think it's just low numbers.

For example, using 7 Divines with the Atronach Stone gives you 300 Magicka Recovery, which is then buffed by other sources to reach up to 400 or more in practice.

7 Invigorating gives you less than 80 tri-stat recovery, so 240 total before buffs, which is not great, and health recovery doesn't really count because it's not an important part of most builds.

Your numbers are super wrong. Seven invigorating is 112 x 3 stats, while seven divines with the Atronach stone is 197 x 1 stat, and both benefit from all of the same other buffs.

LOL my b, was looking at the fully-Divines-buffed number on UESP for Atronach stone instead of the unbuffed one. It does list Invig as 11 per stat, which might be outdated.

Nestor · March 25

virtus753 wrote: »

I seem to recall breaking a piece of gear while turning in master writs once, but it isn’t frequent for me. Maybe the degradation is so low I don’t notice it, or maybe that was a bug.

You get a good chunk of Experience with Master Writs, especially during Exp Doubling Events stacked with Scrolls. I have Wrecked my entire Armor set doing a pile of Master Writs.

Kite42 · March 25

Nestor wrote: »

You get a good chunk of Experience with Master Writs, especially during Exp Doubling Events stacked with Scrolls. I have Wrecked my entire Armor set doing a pile of Master Writs.

This is a pretty weird aspect of the game code.

Rowjoh · March 25

Outdated and irrelevant trait.

Was introduced in another time a long long time ago when sustain was very different.

kringled_1 · March 25

Nestor wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

I seem to recall breaking a piece of gear while turning in master writs once, but it isn’t frequent for me. Maybe the degradation is so low I don’t notice it, or maybe that was a bug.

You get a good chunk of Experience with Master Writs, especially during Exp Doubling Events stacked with Scrolls. I have Wrecked my entire Armor set doing a pile of Master Writs.

I can check again but any time I've done master writs in bulk, I'm not taking armor damage. I turned in about 4-5 million xp worth last week, I should have noticed if there was any damage. It's certainly possible that this used to be different, but it hasn't done that for quite a while.
I can specifically check on Thursday or Friday.

YandereGirlfriend · March 25

Invigorating is one of those marquee casualties of "balancing via spreadsheet" that is the current style of the combat devs.

They look at the trait and say, "Well, the sum of all this regen is actually quite strong" but completely ignore context and the opportunity cost of choosing to run Invigorating versus basically any other trait.

In PvE, the sustain is generally not needed and in PvP the health regen component is simply dead weight artificially inflating the spreadsheet value of the trait. That is why nobody uses the trait in either game mode and why the trait is functionally dead.

The idea of the trait is neat but they need to like double the current values if they want to entice anyone to ever run it.

LadyLavina · March 25

I don't think it was meant to be, but the numbers it offers are so insignificant no matter where you are on the skill curve that it's fair to call a bad trait in all settings.