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Can somebody help me improve my damage?

AnduinTryggva
AnduinTryggva
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I just don't understand why my damage output is so low.

I run a stam-dk in Vateshran and my damage output there is about 20-22k at best that is when the movement is not a lot.

I wear Slime, nirn and, Order's Wrath and Pale ring, use Malstrom 2h and 2daggers.

I try to weave as best as I can and to make my la go thru but I seem not to be able to go beyond that damage. The damage itself is of course sufficient to beat the boss the issue is of course with that mechanics spam where a higher dps would really help.

I watch build videos but they don't seem to help a lot.
  • salander7
    salander7
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    Don't test your damage in an arena as a standard environment. Try a trial dummy.

    For starters, I'd say 2h backbar is not that good in dk, but current meta is still pending tests. Regardless, the thing is complicated enough to know where you're making mistakes. Post a screenshot of info in cmx, or smth along those lines, and people can tell you from there.
    Or join a pve guild, and they'll assist you in a better way.
    Main: Dragonknight Tank.

    Crown trading middleman in PC-EU.
  • flizomica
    flizomica
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    If you're following build guides and not getting the results you expect, Skinnycheeks has a really good video.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    I modified my build a bit and pay more attention to la weaving but still my dps lingers around 25k in Vateshran.

    To be honest, the puppets don't interest me, as the dps in application is what counts. I really have no clue how to further improve. Surely my rotation could be better and I am certainly not 100% perfect on weaving. Although I think it is not thaaaat bad. I simply cannot understand how I could TRIPLE my damage output if the issue is just in terms of honing.

    To be honest my feeling is that if being a small bit from optimum and not to do the extra 30% ok. But if this bit is worth 300% than there is something completely wrong. And I don't understand it.

    Thanks for the video anyway. Nothing specificly new to me and does not help me identify why I am so faaar off in terms of dmg output.

    With guild help it is difficult. You ask in guild chat and you get 7 different answers... ^^
  • heaven13
    heaven13
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    I modified my build a bit and pay more attention to la weaving but still my dps lingers around 25k in Vateshran.

    To be honest, the puppets don't interest me, as the dps in application is what counts. I really have no clue how to further improve. Surely my rotation could be better and I am certainly not 100% perfect on weaving. Although I think it is not thaaaat bad. I simply cannot understand how I could TRIPLE my damage output if the issue is just in terms of honing.

    To be honest my feeling is that if being a small bit from optimum and not to do the extra 30% ok. But if this bit is worth 300% than there is something completely wrong. And I don't understand it.

    Thanks for the video anyway. Nothing specificly new to me and does not help me identify why I am so faaar off in terms of dmg output.

    With guild help it is difficult. You ask in guild chat and you get 7 different answers... ^^

    As other people have mentioned, looking at your dps in an arena isn't great. For one, the trial dummies get you buffs that you likely won't have access to in single-player content. Stationary, single-target enemies are going to show a higher parse than a mobile fight with adds and phases.

    I don't particularly like parsing either, especially for long periods of time (except when I rarely hit that "oooh, I almost beat my last high score, let me try again" cycle) but it's good for practicing the rotation and training your muscle memory. That latter part is what's going to help you do better in real fights because your fingers will know what to do even when your brain is handling the actual mechanics.
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  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    To be honest, the puppets don't interest me, as the dps in application is what counts..

    The reason why people recomment you to parse on a dummy is not the DPS result, it's because you will get a clean cmx of your fight that you can analyse and identify potential problems. Without such data, looking for improvement is almost impossible.
    Usually, players tend to weave too fast in combat situations, losing LA's and skills in the process. AddOns like combat metronome are quite handy to counter that.

    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Ok, I understand what you try to tell me.
    May impression is indeed that I am probably too fast (dort of panic mode).

    Is there an addon that could help me analyse fights?
  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    Ok, I understand what you try to tell me.
    May impression is indeed that I am probably too fast (dort of panic mode).

    Is there an addon that could help me analyse fights?

    Combat Metrics
    And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
    And if there is no room upon the hill
    And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
    I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    Yes, if you’re looking to improve your damage in general then I’d kill an iron atronach target dummy from 100%-0% with combat metrics. If you’re looking to be better at vateshran specifically, then I’ll say solo builds and group pve builds are different. Try slotting force of nature blue CP and a source of major breach. I don’t really know solo builds but I know a lack of penetration can be a problem (which you can also check using combat metrics from a vateshran boss fight).
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    I run solo so I do my parses on a 3M dummy that gives no buffs. Then I back it up on a single simple WB using a tank companion so I can focus on my rotation. I end up with quite similar results. 3M or WB parses are much quicker, as a soloist, it is important that I provide my own buffs since I don't have a group to buff me. And 3M dummy or a WB is long enough to stress/test your resource management.
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    How can I check the fight numbers with combat metrics?

    Well, I have attempted vet Vateshran endboss now surely 20 times or more. And with 25k dps you cannot do it. There will be a moment where you have 2 shadow collossuses active when she spawns the chain. And the fire mage is still up.

    I'd say roughly that you'd need 40k dps to play this thru without relying on some lucky run.

    How can I achieve this dps? I'd need to double it.

    BTW: I slotted force of nature. My dps was not much affected by it because obviously I have to unslot something else.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    I run solo so I do my parses on a 3M dummy that gives no buffs. Then I back it up on a single simple WB using a tank companion so I can focus on my rotation. I end up with quite similar results. 3M or WB parses are much quicker, as a soloist, it is important that I provide my own buffs since I don't have a group to buff me. And 3M dummy or a WB is long enough to stress/test your resource management.

    The thing is in Vateshran end boss I don't have ressource issues. Except with health ressource^^ So that is not so much an issue.
    Edited by AnduinTryggva on March 18, 2024 3:17PM
  • PapaTankers
    PapaTankers
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    How can I check the fight numbers with combat metrics?

    Well, I have attempted vet Vateshran endboss now surely 20 times or more. And with 25k dps you cannot do it. There will be a moment where you have 2 shadow collossuses active when she spawns the chain. And the fire mage is still up.

    I'd say roughly that you'd need 40k dps to play this thru without relying on some lucky run.

    How can I achieve this dps? I'd need to double it.

    BTW: I slotted force of nature. My dps was not much affected by it because obviously I have to unslot something else.

    You can pass it with 25k without any issues. Don't burn boss too fast and deal with colossues one by one if you are having trouble with them. Burning boss too fast makes colossues spawn faster.

    Leave the fire boss last. Save powerups for that.

    For combat metrics type into chat /cmx or add a keybind to it.
  • AnduinTryggva
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    Sure you can pass it with 25k dps. I've done it once. But it was hell and was preceded by something like 50 attempts.

    And I know that I can play the boss slowly. The problem is the complete randomness of the add spawn.

    I frequently get 2 collosuses at the same time as chain AND some of the previous side bosses I have done before.

    I already struggle with this to get to phase 4. And I always do fireboss last.

    I start with frost mage, then the minotaur, then the fireboss. Looks the easiest for me.

    But again. The issue is the many parallel mechanics here. And this is where a higher dps helps.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    I have to admit the frustration of veteran Vateshran endboss is so high at the moment (again) that I come to think that I simply should delete ESO from my hard disk.

    If ESO hangs the fruits so high (and I am not even talking about something as extravagant as a zero death vet vateshran run) you can only achieve with 100 attempts or with some secret ninja abilities that you trained for 100hrs or some secrets accessible to only an elected few just to get an <insert terrible curse word here> equipment for my tank build I wonder if this is really worthwhile.

    I am playing this darn game vor several years now and I do ok in veteran dungeons and trials the gap to veteran solo arena is simply much to high.

    And no, I don't think it is done with simply saying to me I could get that equipment from normal Vateshran also.

    A game that puts some of the advanced content (I am not talking end game stuff like trifecta runs) behind so strong gate keeping thresholds puts me off.

    And no, again, 25k dps I do and still fail every single time because that boss summons all mechanics at once or I get a kick from the collossus into the chain that goes thru despite me blocking.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    BTW. slow burning boss is not an option. This fight is already very very long with that low dps and with each phase it gets more and more chaotic because of more and more mechanics while as a human being not being a machine I simply have to struggle with keeping up concentration if the fight drags on.

    Due to working hours I mostly only have time in the evening to play where concentration is already pretty worn out.

    Edited by AnduinTryggva on March 18, 2024 5:23PM
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    I have played loads games in the past from complex combat flight simulators to ego shooters (pvp online), coop shooters. In no other game the frustration level could reach these same heights as on certain content in ESO. This is really some sort of unique "selling" point of ESO in my game experience spanning two and a half decades.
  • Ugrak
    Ugrak
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    The concept of damage per second is to fill all the units of time with damage. So the damage you're missing is in the gaps.

    Weaving is potentially a way to squeeze some extra damage in what would otherwise be a gap, but it has to be done well. If your weaving isn't on point, it can end up simply widening the interval between casts of your spammable, as well as the interval between each light attack; creating more gaps in your damage output than it fills.

    For example, how fast can you cast it without weaving? And how fast can you light attack without skills in between? Ideally you end up just combining the two with minimal loss, but that's hard.

    That's all skill and comes from practicing on the dummy and looking for mistakes to correct in whatever data you can pull from it, whether it's addon info or maybe a recording for the non-addon-endowed.

    However, maintaining the uptimes in a good rotation is more important than weaving, so be on top of that first (though you do need to weave one in every few seconds to maintain ultimate generation).

    Not current to this patch of course, but there was a thread on reddit a couple years ago where someone did 52K on a trial dummy parse in white non-set gear without weaving. I think it was a good example of this.

    https://reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/vvgxun/97k_no_light_attacks/
  • salander7
    salander7
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    I have to admit the frustration of veteran Vateshran endboss is so high at the moment (again) that I come to think that I simply should delete ESO from my hard disk.
    If ESO hangs the fruits so high (and I am not even talking about something as extravagant as a zero death vet vateshran run) you can only achieve with 100 attempts or with some secret ninja abilities that you trained for 100hrs or some secrets accessible to only an elected few just to get an <insert terrible curse word here> equipment for my tank build I wonder if this is really worthwhile.
    I am playing this darn game vor several years now and I do ok in veteran dungeons and trials the gap to veteran solo arena is simply much to high.
    A game that puts some of the advanced content (I am not talking end game stuff like trifecta runs) behind so strong gate keeping thresholds puts me off.
    And no, again, 25k dps I do and still fail every single time because that boss summons all mechanics at once or I get a kick from the collossus into the chain that goes thru despite me blocking.

    I mean... you went from asking for advice to saying you'll uninstall in 6 hours... I agree that you need real content practice, not just parse, but given your damage, you probably need parsing as well.

    Most likely, your build will be a mess, send a pic of cmx info tab, and people may be able to assist. Having a proper build is half the job, particularly in solo content.
    On the other hand, 2 colossus are fine as long as you know how to deal with the damage they inflict. So is 25k, even less damage is fine, the only damage check is the shadow circle closing on the centre.

    Survival in solo is way more challenging than dungeons, my guess is that's the issue paired with low damage. So if you lack experience+bad build, that is burying you
    Main: Dragonknight Tank.

    Crown trading middleman in PC-EU.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Yeah my level of frustration was insanely high.

    I will try to slow burn the boss. However, I really struggle with concentration upkeep, specifically as I have to keep a higher concentration up in the final two phases than during first two phases. From an ergonomical point of view this endboss mechanic design is really bad. It does not consider human capabilities. That is where a high dps can help a lot by simply being able to burn the side bosses quickly so the main boss does not heal up that much shortening each phase considerably, sparing quite some mechanics and easing up on concentration upkeep.
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Unfortunately you cannot skip the phases. Because I sometimes manage to "nuke" her to 2 or 3% health during phase 1 with my execute but that is where she no longer takes any damage.
    Edited by AnduinTryggva on March 19, 2024 9:50AM
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    It is just not working.

    I have THREE shields slotted that I keep up. I have that green health recovery skill from the pvp skill line. I have activated in phase 4 the shield and still died because of chain+collosus+lightning at the same time. This is definitively unsurvivable.
  • Ph1p
    Ph1p
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    Like everyone else said, the easiest way to get constructive and specific feedback is to record a parse or even a fight in Vateshran with Combat Metrics and share screenshots of the combat plus info pages. Otherwise it’s just a guessing game about your build, slotted skills, rotation, etc.

    Having said that, slotting 3 shields plus using the Pale Order ring sounds like you’re trading a lot of damage potential for additional protection. You’re missing 2-3 damage skills that would add lots of DPS and actually help with healing via Pale Order. But again, pure speculation until you share proper details…
  • ShatteredRose6
    Hello, have you taken the health and stamina buffs? If not, I would highly recommend doing so, you need a source of major breach, noxious breath, elesus/drain on staff or razor caltrops for more dps, you said u use 3 shields, it's not recommended cuz it's taking up dps slots which can be used to push damage and proc pale order too, for stam if you're running 2h use carve for sheild and use selfish vigor for heals and minor resolve,daggars you can use quick clock for evasion and bit of speed, ideally you can use a dk class major resolve if u think you don't have much mitigation. You can use sigils on last boss for extra help.you can tab target bosses or ads if you're LA isn't going through/ping issues.

    Regarding parse dummies, 21mil is good way to measure you're ability to dps, as it provides almost accurate representation of you're weaving and understanding of sets, which is helpfull to others to see if you're doing something wrong with cmx, post a screenshot of stats and info page here and lot of people can help.
    Hope this helps and you beat it man. Good luck
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    for the vateshran last boss my tips would be if its your first time and having trouble:
    • focus adds and cleave boss (the adds are what become problematic)
    • save your ultimate for the ring phase if you dont have some kind of teleport move to bypass it, use the ultimate to burn 1 enemy down on the ring to make a hole and dodge roll through it (sorc streak, arcanist portal, NB shadow image are class skills that will go through the ring safely, vampire mist form will work for any class)
    • some of the "added mechanics" from each miniboss phase have different difficulty, the blue one is just ground lighting strikes so keep moving, the red one is more dangerous as it spawns the fire mages which have to be interrupted or will be deadly
    • having a purge is handy for getting rid of some of the dots that can be put on you, especially the ones from the shade colossus and the boss conal attacks as that dot kind of hurts a bit
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    Here is the latest combat log for the endboss. Managed to burn her down do 25% in phase four before I was overwhelmed.

    20240319175656-1.jpg

    I know that my weaving could be better but I simply tough on limitations here. Also I have the impression that I suffer from some computer or internet issues that some key pressings don't reach the game and hence this dps is lost in nirwana.

    This is where I come to think that a game system that requires perfect technical conditions on all sides (server and client and in between) is bad.
    Edited by AnduinTryggva on March 19, 2024 5:08PM
  • Necrotech_Master
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    i dont think the problem is requiring perfect technical conditions, or even your weaving thats the issue

    the first character i completed this on vet was a warden that had like 6-8k less dps than you do, even did a no death run on that same character (it was too low dmg for the trifecta though), and it wasnt even wearing anything considered "meta" (at the time i did it i was using iceheart, ice furnace, and icy conjurer)

    that warden character had no execute ability either (i didnt use the warden bear for this because it was dying too frequently and i couldnt resummon it easily with everything else going on)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • WiseSky
    WiseSky
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    Immersive Quests Addon
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    List of Immersion Addons
  • AnduinTryggva
    AnduinTryggva
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    I simply am at the end of my nerve. People tell me that I don't need dps but apparantly nobody can tell me how to survive phase 4 when all the mechanics come in. Even if I do ZERO damage on the boss I get collosus, flame caster, minotaur and chain at the same time. And even if I have picked up the defence sigle it helps zero, nada, nothing. I still bleed health like mad while I try to kill that single chain ghost that I have tabbed to focus dmg on this one.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    all of those mechanics are on timers, not boss HP

    burning the boss is mainly used to skip the ring mechanic, because the ring mechanic despawns when she is about to explode the arena

    if your losing too much health the problem is not your dps output, its more likely survivability, dots, or too many adds up (or combination

    the only add you cannot kill is the spectral minotaur, and the dots from both the main boss conal and the shade colossus conals definitely hurts a good bit

    i noticed your using a dk so you definitely dont have access to a purge, i dont know what gear your wearing but the pale order ring helped me significantly when i did this on my mag dk (i notice your on stam dk)

    my mag dk i was able to get the trifecta run on this, again using an off meta setup (auroran + blackrose destro front bar + maelstrom destro + 2pc willpower + i think zaans for monster set at the time (i dont like the changes they did to the set so i dont use it right now))

    burning ember and dragon blood was usually more than enough to stay alive, i kept dots on the boss and focused down the adds, for the ring my 2 options were burn 1 of the ring adds down, or use magma shell and just camp out in the middle as the ring closed in, if you activate you can keep the magma shell active during the entire end ring portion when they come in and explode and you wont really take any dmg from anything during that time

    i dont remember what the dps i had was, my main goal was enough to complete the whole thing in 45 min, and survivability to not die (which took a few tries lol)

    i also cant tell from your cmx what your resistances and such were at, but i was running volatile armor to be at least 22k resist
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • merpins
    merpins
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    Practical application is good for practice, but it won't give you accurate numbers for your dps. An accurate test is a parse, with the dummy. I get it if you don't like it, but it might be that your damage output is fine, and that it's lower because of arenas. Or, it could prove to still be low, and you might be developing habits that aren't great when you want to do steady damage, due to the nature of arena fights.

    Test on a dummy is my recommendation. The 3m dummy is fine: you're looking for at least 35-40k on the 3m dummy or 90-100k on the trial dummy to start doing end game stuff, like trifectas. 45-60k on the 3m dummy is like doing 110-130k on a trial dummy. Once you have the muscle memory and can do your parses at those damage numbers on a dummy, then translate those to arena fights, dungeons, and trials.
    Edited by merpins on March 19, 2024 7:06PM
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