Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
they always play Crow + X (in most cases Reachmen because guess what, drawing even more cards is fun) and rely on these “tactics“.
Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
Most of my losing games I not only went second (which is another issue), but the opponent picked Crow as patron.
Personofsecrets wrote: »My suggestion was to make the Tolls cost 5.
Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
they always play Crow + X (in most cases Reachmen because guess what, drawing even more cards is fun) and rely on these “tactics“.
This is intentional to the point of being meta. Going first with Crow + Reachmen can end the game early if the first turn player picks up the 4-gold Toll of Flesh/Silver. Some background in case you didn't know: the current turn mechanism works by having the first patron pick player also be the first turn one player.
First Turn Scenarios:
- If you get the Reachman 1 power card in your hand on Turn One, you still have 4 gold to buy Toll of Flesh/Silver.
- If you get two 1-power cards in your hand on Turn One, you can use the Reachman patron power to get a coin and now you have 4 gold again.
The 1-power Reachman also has a chance of disadvantaging the second turn player by reducing gold count to 5 and preventing a 6 gold buy. There is still some RNG in that a good 4-cost crow card has to be available on Turn 1. It doesn't always have to be Tool of Flesh/Silver. Crow has other game winning 4 cost cards.
One way to counter this is to pick Pelin and Mora as the second turn player (chance of too many power cards to afford 4 gold picks turn one even with the Reachman patron power to get an extra draw), so that's incentive to get the new deck.Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
Most of my losing games I not only went second (which is another issue), but the opponent picked Crow as patron.
That's the strategy described above. Second turn player will be placed at an extreme disadvantage.Personofsecrets wrote: »My suggestion was to make the Tolls cost 5.
Absolutely agree.
Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
they always play Crow + X (in most cases Reachmen because guess what, drawing even more cards is fun) and rely on these “tactics“.
This is intentional to the point of being meta. Going first with Crow + Reachmen can end the game early if the first turn player picks up the 4-gold Toll of Flesh/Silver. Some background in case you didn't know: the current turn mechanism works by having the first patron pick player also be the first turn one player.
First Turn Scenarios:
- If you get the Reachman 1 power card in your hand on Turn One, you still have 4 gold to buy Toll of Flesh/Silver.
- If you get two 1-power cards in your hand on Turn One, you can use the Reachman patron power to get a coin and now you have 4 gold again.
The 1-power Reachman also has a chance of disadvantaging the second turn player by reducing gold count to 5 and preventing a 6 gold buy. There is still some RNG in that a good 4-cost crow card has to be available on Turn 1. It doesn't always have to be Tool of Flesh/Silver. Crow has other game winning 4 cost cards.
One way to counter this is to pick Pelin and Mora as the second turn player (chance of too many power cards to afford 4 gold picks turn one even with the Reachman patron power to get an extra draw), so that's incentive to get the new deck.Seraphayel wrote: »Title. A tale as old as time.
Most of my losing games I not only went second (which is another issue), but the opponent picked Crow as patron.
That's the strategy described above. Second turn player will be placed at an extreme disadvantage.Personofsecrets wrote: »My suggestion was to make the Tolls cost 5.
Absolutely agree.
I‘ve played so many games against the Crow + Reachmen combo and never realized the bigger meaning behind it as you explained. I usually always go Pelin or Mora that these games don’t drag out too long, but it‘s still very annoying. I just played another two games just yet against two opponents with said combo and guess what, it happened exactly what you explained.
They got the Toll in the first round and in the second round they got another one. I got either nothing or something way less useful. I played the game for two/three more rounds, they picked another Crow card and I just conceded. It was impossible for me to pick up. By the way, two lost games and I just fell over 50 places in the ranking.
It‘s all around such a miserable experience because you can’t do anything about it. With most other deck combos you at least can do something, but when they start chaining Crow draws or if that doesn’t work out the Reachmen draw, it‘s just over.
They get too much coins, too much power or whatever. I didn’t realize how many players use this cheap tactic (I’d rather refuse to call it tactic and would rather call it noob-safety-net, because that’s what it is). I really wish we could veto decks.
spartaxoxo wrote: »You're not helping the situation if you're adding in Pelin or Mora into that, as player 2 you'll end up with a power card which throws away your 1 coin advantage.
Mora: No - Crap based clown fiesta archetype that doesn't deserve the dignity of further explanation.
Seraphayel wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You're not helping the situation if you're adding in Pelin or Mora into that, as player 2 you'll end up with a power card which throws away your 1 coin advantage.
So what else? Pick non-power decks which make these matches even more unbearable because they would even take longer than that or just play the Crow game as soon as that patron gets chosen? I mean what’s the solution? At the end of the day it’s a race for Crow cards or what?
spartaxoxo wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »You're not helping the situation if you're adding in Pelin or Mora into that, as player 2 you'll end up with a power card which throws away your 1 coin advantage.
So what else? Pick non-power decks which make these matches even more unbearable because they would even take longer than that or just play the Crow game as soon as that patron gets chosen? I mean what’s the solution? At the end of the day it’s a race for Crow cards or what?
Personally I'd recommend Druid and Psijic to counter that. If you're lucky, you'll can get a lot of power from that deck. And if not, you should be able to generate plenty of coin and use the crow patron. Between the Psijic and Red Eagle deck, you shouldn't have any trouble with deck control. So, you'll be able to play the good cards more often, which should make up for it going a bit slower.
Edit:
I'd also agree that Almalexia is a good choice but personally I think it's worth the risk of Psijic to speed things up a bit more. And it doesn't put you at as strong of a disadvantage as Mora and Pelin.
Seraphayel wrote: »Dropped just 140 places from #6 to #146 because I had a streak of bad luck - most matches I played and lost - guess what - against the Crow + Reachmen combo (played against the three same opponents that are always using these patrons).
Druid did help a little, was the best counter yet. Almalexia did not help as the cards can benefit the other side too much. Mora I found to be quite effective when you can overrun your opponent quickly. You just gotta be careful with the cards that give your opponent additional draws. Rahjin wasn’t too bad either, but to slow down their draw combos with Bewilderment just takes too many coins and turns to be really effective - at least from my experience.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Dropped just 140 places from #6 to #146 because I had a streak of bad luck - most matches I played and lost - guess what - against the Crow + Reachmen combo (played against the three same opponents that are always using these patrons).
Druid did help a little, was the best counter yet. Almalexia did not help as the cards can benefit the other side too much. Mora I found to be quite effective when you can overrun your opponent quickly. You just gotta be careful with the cards that give your opponent additional draws. Rahjin wasn’t too bad either, but to slow down their draw combos with Bewilderment just takes too many coins and turns to be really effective - at least from my experience.
Try Druid and Psijic, and focus on getting those and not the crow cards. You can also use the black tavern cards to your advantage, so the opponent doesn't get them all.
Seraphayel wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Dropped just 140 places from #6 to #146 because I had a streak of bad luck - most matches I played and lost - guess what - against the Crow + Reachmen combo (played against the three same opponents that are always using these patrons).
Druid did help a little, was the best counter yet. Almalexia did not help as the cards can benefit the other side too much. Mora I found to be quite effective when you can overrun your opponent quickly. You just gotta be careful with the cards that give your opponent additional draws. Rahjin wasn’t too bad either, but to slow down their draw combos with Bewilderment just takes too many coins and turns to be really effective - at least from my experience.
Try Druid and Psijic, and focus on getting those and not the crow cards. You can also use the black tavern cards to your advantage, so the opponent doesn't get them all.
Psijic works surprisingly well also. Druid too. Good options to at least make those games more bearable. Mora has proven to be a double edged sword, can end those games rather quickly, but can backfire pretty hefty as well (like the deck was intended, I guess).
Get more purple cards than them or Rahjin them
Seraphayel wrote: »Get more purple cards than them or Rahjin them
That‘s exactly what I don’t want, counter Crow with Crow. That already proves that Crow is out of all 11 patrons by far the strongest.
I‘ve been tracking Crow usage over the last days, basically 90% of my opponents either play the Reachmen + Crow or another Crow + X combo. And roughly 4/5 matches I lose it happens due to Crow RNG being involved and endless streaks of drawing cards.
Seraphayel wrote: »I love how 99% of the matches I’m losing it’s either to endless Crow draws or going second. I just had 7 matches in a row where I went second and I lost 6 of them. Fun times. Yesterday I was ranked #2, today I’m in the bottom 100s. The worst part about this is that I’m forced to play Crow because 4 of 5 opponents always pick this patron. It just reduces to fun from ToT to a minimum when you’re forced to play with something you genuinely hate.
Seraphayel wrote: »I love how 99% of the matches I’m losing it’s either to endless Crow draws or going second. I just had 7 matches in a row where I went second and I lost 6 of them. Fun times. Yesterday I was ranked #2, today I’m in the bottom 100s. The worst part about this is that I’m forced to play Crow because 4 of 5 opponents always pick this patron. It just reduces to fun from ToT to a minimum when you’re forced to play with something you genuinely hate.
Pick Orgnum/Mora and just power past it... You'll still lose a lot whenever your opponent goes first but nobody will have enough turns to get the purple combo going.