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My Necromancer "Class Rework" Proposal
Goodministrator
Soul Shriven
In this discussion I will be proposing some Necromancer class changes that might help give the development team some ideas to make the class more well rounded. I play PVE as well as PVP and have played the game since 2014. I just want to see this class function better.
1) Detonating Siphon - Make the skill into an AOE burst skill with 28 meter range and 8 meter explosion radius and change the name. Mystic Siphon is already used in PVE just as much if not more than Detonating Siphon because of sustain. It should only be usable when there's a corpse on the ground since the skill costs no resources. Note that the damage from this new "burst" morph should be comparable to blighted blast bones since it's reliant on another skill to create the corpse. This would give Necromancers a little more Identity in PVP without creating issues in PVE.
2) Animate Blastbones - Reduce the cost of this morph BUT remove the resurrection part. In PVE no one uses this morph and in PVP the summons function too poorly to justify the extreme ultimate cost. Not to mention there's forward camps and alliance war passives (also champion point abilities) that make resurrections very easy for PVP healers. People who want the ability to revive their teammates in PVP can still use the other morph.
3) Ricochet skull - Make this ability our class stun. Make it stun every cast. Take away the damage boost for the third cast. An increase in travel time would also be nice, as the skill currently moves very slow. No one uses this morph currently in PVE or PVP. It takes too long to ramp up to the 50% damage boost in PVE compared to Venom skull which gets buffed fairly quickly. In PVP people use "force shock" instead because the bonus penetration from Destruction staff passives, Status effect chance, and it's instant damage. The skull is easily dodged or blocked.
4) Death Scythe - The range is 7 meters. For melee light and heavy attacks that's fine, but for this skill's AOE cone radius it guarantees it will not hit if an enemy is moving around. I believe it would be healthy to change this skill to 8 meters to prevent the skill missing when weaving in PVE/PVP. The other issue at hand is tanks (and tanky players) prefer to use the Magicka morph (Hungry Scythe) for the sustained healing, but no one uses the Stamina morph (Ruinous Scythe). It would be a breath of fresh air if the stamina morph was a ranged single target "Scythe Throw" that would deal up to 200% more damage to targets under 50% HP. Necromancers don't have the burst for an execute that starts at anything less than 50% health in my opinion. I decided upon the 200% damage based on Nightblade's "Impale" skill. Impale does roughly 35% less damage than Ruinous Scythe but executes at a rate of 330% bonus damage while also being a ranged skill. While Impale does only affect targets under 25% HP, they have the instant burst in PVP to get to that milestone, where Necromancers generally don't (Hence the Necro Execute I listed scaling at 50% and below HP).
5) Bone Totem - Make the fear apply instantly and have a wider range. Other classes have fears/stuns that go through block and are instant or even ranged. Nightblade has an AOE fear that can hit unlimited targets and applies Major Cowardice. Dragonknight has Petrify. Templar has Piercing Javelin. Sorcerer has Streak.
6) Avid Boneyard - Harmony trait has been gutted. Please buff the damage of this morph and remove the corpse consumption part (which only affects the damage over time portion, not the synergy). Buff "Unnerving Boneyard's" damage over time to compensate for the loss of Avid Boneyard Synergy in PVE. I would prefer increased damage over time in PVE now anyway since Grave Lord's Sacrifice doesn't buff the Boneyard synergy, but it does buff damage over time. This would be a win win for both sides of the game.
7) Grave Grasp - This skill is completely unused by almost every Necro in the game. A good positive change would be "Roots enemies in a 15 meter x 5 meter Area in front of you and apply minor maim for 5 seconds". Then make "Empowering Grasp" not CC at all, but make it an AOE that buffs your summons damage and healing by 2000 (1000 isn't enough in PVE or PVP) in a CIRCLE around you instead of a LINE in front of you. There's been times where I tried to use this ability and had to cast it 7 times to empower my summons. The other morph "Ghostly Embrace" could be more PVP oriented and could also apply Minor Cowardice. This would make the skill feel more useful in PVP and ensure more Necromancers feel included in group play.
8) Last Gasp (Bone Tyrant Passive) - 1250 HP. That's all this passive gives... Please add to the passive "Gain Major Sorcery and Major Brutality while a Necromancer ability (or even just a bone tyrant ability) is active." Every other class has either a long duration or almost 100% uptime on these buffs.
These are changes I feel would round out the Necromancer Class without damaging any elements of the game. Please let me know what you think. Thank you.
1) Detonating Siphon - Make the skill into an AOE burst skill with 28 meter range and 8 meter explosion radius and change the name. Mystic Siphon is already used in PVE just as much if not more than Detonating Siphon because of sustain. It should only be usable when there's a corpse on the ground since the skill costs no resources. Note that the damage from this new "burst" morph should be comparable to blighted blast bones since it's reliant on another skill to create the corpse. This would give Necromancers a little more Identity in PVP without creating issues in PVE.
2) Animate Blastbones - Reduce the cost of this morph BUT remove the resurrection part. In PVE no one uses this morph and in PVP the summons function too poorly to justify the extreme ultimate cost. Not to mention there's forward camps and alliance war passives (also champion point abilities) that make resurrections very easy for PVP healers. People who want the ability to revive their teammates in PVP can still use the other morph.
3) Ricochet skull - Make this ability our class stun. Make it stun every cast. Take away the damage boost for the third cast. An increase in travel time would also be nice, as the skill currently moves very slow. No one uses this morph currently in PVE or PVP. It takes too long to ramp up to the 50% damage boost in PVE compared to Venom skull which gets buffed fairly quickly. In PVP people use "force shock" instead because the bonus penetration from Destruction staff passives, Status effect chance, and it's instant damage. The skull is easily dodged or blocked.
4) Death Scythe - The range is 7 meters. For melee light and heavy attacks that's fine, but for this skill's AOE cone radius it guarantees it will not hit if an enemy is moving around. I believe it would be healthy to change this skill to 8 meters to prevent the skill missing when weaving in PVE/PVP. The other issue at hand is tanks (and tanky players) prefer to use the Magicka morph (Hungry Scythe) for the sustained healing, but no one uses the Stamina morph (Ruinous Scythe). It would be a breath of fresh air if the stamina morph was a ranged single target "Scythe Throw" that would deal up to 200% more damage to targets under 50% HP. Necromancers don't have the burst for an execute that starts at anything less than 50% health in my opinion. I decided upon the 200% damage based on Nightblade's "Impale" skill. Impale does roughly 35% less damage than Ruinous Scythe but executes at a rate of 330% bonus damage while also being a ranged skill. While Impale does only affect targets under 25% HP, they have the instant burst in PVP to get to that milestone, where Necromancers generally don't (Hence the Necro Execute I listed scaling at 50% and below HP).
5) Bone Totem - Make the fear apply instantly and have a wider range. Other classes have fears/stuns that go through block and are instant or even ranged. Nightblade has an AOE fear that can hit unlimited targets and applies Major Cowardice. Dragonknight has Petrify. Templar has Piercing Javelin. Sorcerer has Streak.
6) Avid Boneyard - Harmony trait has been gutted. Please buff the damage of this morph and remove the corpse consumption part (which only affects the damage over time portion, not the synergy). Buff "Unnerving Boneyard's" damage over time to compensate for the loss of Avid Boneyard Synergy in PVE. I would prefer increased damage over time in PVE now anyway since Grave Lord's Sacrifice doesn't buff the Boneyard synergy, but it does buff damage over time. This would be a win win for both sides of the game.
7) Grave Grasp - This skill is completely unused by almost every Necro in the game. A good positive change would be "Roots enemies in a 15 meter x 5 meter Area in front of you and apply minor maim for 5 seconds". Then make "Empowering Grasp" not CC at all, but make it an AOE that buffs your summons damage and healing by 2000 (1000 isn't enough in PVE or PVP) in a CIRCLE around you instead of a LINE in front of you. There's been times where I tried to use this ability and had to cast it 7 times to empower my summons. The other morph "Ghostly Embrace" could be more PVP oriented and could also apply Minor Cowardice. This would make the skill feel more useful in PVP and ensure more Necromancers feel included in group play.
8) Last Gasp (Bone Tyrant Passive) - 1250 HP. That's all this passive gives... Please add to the passive "Gain Major Sorcery and Major Brutality while a Necromancer ability (or even just a bone tyrant ability) is active." Every other class has either a long duration or almost 100% uptime on these buffs.
These are changes I feel would round out the Necromancer Class without damaging any elements of the game. Please let me know what you think. Thank you.
2
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ItsNotLiving✭✭✭✭My suggestion is that they make every necromancer character a different class at random so you wouldn’t know what class you were getting. And then they just delete the class since they have no idea how to make it good.3 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We have a class with a dot passive here but no in-class source of a sticky dot. That's a microcosm of the problems the Necromancer has at a design level.
I agree that the scythe needs some help. I stack a lot of damage and have decent penetration, and I can watch scythe tickle people for about 1.5k damage. 🤨 What good is a hot when I'm just giving the opponent time to heal back up because my spammable hits them like a cool breeze in the summer?
Anyway, necro thread so I'm also sharing my ideas again 😂StarOfElyon wrote: »I'm making an updated version of my Necro ideas thread from 2023 (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633137/suggestions-for-necromancer-changes). One thing that ZOS has been doing lately is making skills require less micromanagement and loading them with multiple functions:Cephaliarch's Flail:
Infuse your arm with abyssal magic to form tentacles that lash out at your foes dealing 1939 Physical Damage, healing yourself for 969, and generating Crux. Enemies are immobilized for 3 seconds and marked with Abyssal Ink for 20 seconds. Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies with less than 50% Health. You deal 5% increased damage to enemies drenched in Abyssal Ink.
Tome-Bearer's Inspiration:
Etch a series of runes onto your weapon that pulse with power once every 5 seconds. Each pulse enhances your class abilities, and striking an enemy with one deals an additional 1161 Magic Damage and generates Crux if you have none. While slotted on either ability bar, gain Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing your Weapon and Spell Damage by 20%.
The Necro needs this same treatment.
Blighted Blastbones: cost determined by the highest resource.
(I have mourned the loss of Stalking Blastbones and I have accepted that fact that I'm just going to have to change my Necro)
Death Scythe:
As I have seen suggested on the forums, both morphs of the Necro scythe should get execute scaling. I agree that this would be a great and very needed addition.
- Hungry Scythe: should also apply life steal to all enemies hit.
Skeletal Arcanist/Archer: grants major sorcery/brutality when slotted on either bar. Increase the damage that their attacks do.
Shocking Siphon: while slotted on either bar grants major prophecy/savagery and increases damage done by 3%. The AOE remains on the ground even if the tether breaks early.
- Mystic Siphon: the increased Health, Magicka, and Stamina Recovery persists even if the tether breaks early.
- Detonating Syphon: the damage AOE now sticks to you.
Flame Skull:
- Riccochet Skull/Venom Skull: applies burning/poisoned status effects. (Increase travel speed)
Spirit Mender: when active, applies minor cowardice to attackers.
Bone Totem: summons an effigy of bones up to 28 meters away. After 1 second, the totem begins fearing nearby enemies every 2 seconds, causing them to cower in place for 4 seconds. (Changed to allow both morphs to be targeted)
- Warding Totem: (Formerly Remote Totem) grants minor protection when standing in the area of effect.
- Agony Totem: afflicts enemies in the area of effect with minor vulnerability.
Restoring Tether: the effects persist on the player even if the tether breaks early.
Render Flesh:
- Blood Sacrifice: consumes a corpse to grant you Major Courage for 10 seconds.
Expunge: reduces the cost of all your abilities by 3% while slotted on either bar.
Bitter Harvest: when slotted on either bar, reduces your damage taken by 3%.
ULTIMATES:
Frozen Colossus: Unleash a decayed Flesh Colossus to pulverize enemies in the area. The Colossus smashes the ground three times over 3 seconds. Dealing damage applies Major Vulnerability to any enemy hit for 12 seconds.
- Glacial Colossus: does frost damage and stuns enemies on the second hit instead of the third.
- Pestilent Colossus: smashes the ground only once and does disease damage. Afflicts enemies with a pestilence that does damage over time.
Animate Blastbones: instead of resurrecting allies, this ultimate summons up to three blastbones to attack the nearest opponent. Summoned Blastbones are immune to being crowd controlled (other than by another ultimate). Reduce the cost of this ultimate to 200, down from 320, to make it more usable.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭StarOfElyon wrote: »We have a class with a dot passive here but no in-class source of a sticky dot. That's a microcosm of the problems the Necromancer has at a design level.
DELETE:
Rapid Rot- Increases your damage done with damage over time effects by 10%.
COPY/PASTA:
Psychic Lesion- Your attacks wound decay the mind with heretical knowledge the souls of the dead, increasing damage dealt by Status Effects by 15% and Status Effect Chance by 55%.
Really feels like they just throw out any unused damage passive on each new class they make or old classes they rework, instead of adding what actually thematically fits, redundant or not.
I'm totally on board with Necromancer's being the closest thing to an Elementalist given the fact they purposefully have access to all 8 elements woven into their kit.. however, dot damage doesn't support that idea very well. DK is and will always will be the dot class, why on earth does Arcanist have a status effect bonus at all with basically 3/8 damage types, of which they only spam 2 abilities instead of 10 like the rest of us.
If you ask me, these passives should be swapped.Edited by MashmalloMan on March 13, 2024 1:56AMPC Beta - 2200+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
GoodministratorSoul Shriven@ZOS_GinaBruno Currently the CP "Riposte" also "Varen's Legacy" set doesn't work for blastbones. Most definitely a bug. Also Can you take a look at my ideas to fix the necro class sometime? Us necro players are suffering. Especially after the loss of Stalking Blastbones.0
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Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goodministrator wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Currently the CP "Riposte" also "Varen's Legacy" set doesn't work for blastbones. Most definitely a bug. Also Can you take a look at my ideas to fix the necro class sometime? Us necro players are suffering. Especially after the loss of Stalking Blastbones.
Dont be so sure its a bug, Afaik Varen's doesn't and hasn't ever worked on Proxy Det or Shalks. They added that "does not work on channeled EFFECTS" text. I don't know what means exactly, maybe that's what it is?
It's also never worked on Impulse I think, I have no clue why not (despite always having worked on Sap Essence).
Edited by Urzigurumash on March 18, 2024 6:17AMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Urzigurumash wrote: »Goodministrator wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno Currently the CP "Riposte" also "Varen's Legacy" set doesn't work for blastbones. Most definitely a bug. Also Can you take a look at my ideas to fix the necro class sometime? Us necro players are suffering. Especially after the loss of Stalking Blastbones.
Dont be so sure its a bug, Afaik Varen's doesn't and hasn't ever worked on Proxy Det or Shalks. They added that "does not work on channeled EFFECTS" text. I don't know what means exactly, maybe that's what it is?
It's also never worked on Impulse I think, I have no clue why not (despite always having worked on Sap Essence).
It doesn't work because it's a pet. That's all there is to it.
Channeled abilities are things like Flurry, Jabs, Beam, Soul Assault, etc.0