Anyone else notice a change to holding down buttons in gamepad mode?

WuffyCerulei · March 2024

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

show previous quotes

balltongue_ wrote: »

I hope this is not intended.

It is not intended. We are working to resolve this. The feedback in this thread has been helpful in crossing out some possible issues. The investigation continues.

I hope the resolved Framerate Drop thing in the known issues thread is NOT whatever issue is going on here.

I'm using a PDP Rematch Xbox controller, no 3rd party programs are on, ESO not through Steam. I even made sure Steam was not running in the background, but still having the delayed input. Legitimately never had any issues with controllers being laggy until this specific update, and I've been using controllers since late 2015. Whenever controller support was added to PC ESO anyways.

I'm gonna be firm in the fact that I do NOT want to be forced to buy a new name-brand controller to just get things working again, if that's ever going to be a suggested fix. Most people cannot fork over money like that.

virtus753 · March 2024

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

show previous quotes

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

balltongue_ wrote: »

I hope this is not intended.

It is not intended. We are working to resolve this. The feedback in this thread has been helpful in crossing out some possible issues. The investigation continues.

I hope the resolved Framerate Drop thing in the known issues thread is NOT whatever issue is going on here.

It is not the same. Kevin posted that note you quoted, that the investigation into the longer input timing was still ongoing, well after the fps issue on the known issues list was marked Resolved.

katanagirl1 · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

show previous quotes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

balltongue_ wrote: »

I hope this is not intended.

It is not intended. We are working to resolve this. The feedback in this thread has been helpful in crossing out some possible issues. The investigation continues.

I hope the resolved Framerate Drop thing in the known issues thread is NOT whatever issue is going on here.

It is not the same. Kevin posted that note you quoted, that the investigation into the longer input timing was still ongoing, well after the fps issue on the known issues list was marked Resolved.

Interesting that this issue is happening on PC with gamepad, I have had problems with this and the frame rate drops on PS5 for a long time now. It makes me wonder if we have the same root cause.

WuffyCerulei · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

show previous quotes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

balltongue_ wrote: »

I hope this is not intended.

It is not intended. We are working to resolve this. The feedback in this thread has been helpful in crossing out some possible issues. The investigation continues.

I hope the resolved Framerate Drop thing in the known issues thread is NOT whatever issue is going on here.

It is not the same. Kevin posted that note you quoted, that the investigation into the longer input timing was still ongoing, well after the fps issue on the known issues list was marked Resolved.

Thank you for the clarification

LadyLethalla · March 2024

I had been running ESO through Steam as ESO did not recognise my Sony Dualsense Edge controller; I've just tried running it not through Steam and yes it works now but it is taking longer button presses to mount. Haven't tried any other functions.

Edit: @ZOS_Kevin one thing I've noticed since 2-3 patches ago, is that I always need to do double button presses on skills. Eg I go into IC daily, and in order to use Shadowy Surprise I need to press twice. It doesn't need to be one immediately after the other either; I can press it once, interact with something like a container or quest item, then press a second time and the skill then fires. Quite annoying, I have to say - and it certainly was not like that before those 2-3 recent patches. Interestingly though, I don't need to double press to interact or jump.

WuffyCerulei · March 2024

I think I may have figured at least one issue, and it's having your controller plugged in to your PC before booting up the game. I don't know it causes an issue, as I'm no tech wiz, but keeping the controller unplugged until you've loaded onto your character seems to negate the hold delay.

If others can test this out, please let me know. I don't know if it'll work with keeping wireless controllers off until you load in, but maybe it will.

(I don't use ESO through Steam and have no 3rd party programs on as well)

AzuraFan · March 2024

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think I may have figured at least one issue, and it's having your controller plugged in to your PC before booting up the game. I don't know it causes an issue, as I'm no tech wiz, but keeping the controller unplugged until you've loaded onto your character seems to negate the hold delay.

I just tried this out, and yes, if I don't have my controller plugged in when I start the game, and then I plug it in after my character is loaded, the delay isn't there.

Hopefully this will give them a clue about how to fix the problem.

(Having your controller plugged in wasn't a problem before the patch.)

virtus753 · March 2024

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think I may have figured at least one issue, and it's having your controller plugged in to your PC before booting up the game. I don't know it causes an issue, as I'm no tech wiz, but keeping the controller unplugged until you've loaded onto your character seems to negate the hold delay.

If others can test this out, please let me know. I don't know if it'll work with keeping wireless controllers off until you load in, but maybe it will.

(I don't use ESO through Steam and have no 3rd party programs on as well)

Thank you for this! It seems to reduce the input delay significantly for me when rezzing/trading/mounting/tab targeting. These functions are usable again in time-sensitive situations. I really appreciate you sharing this workaround.

I use a DS4, and the input delay with rezzing/trading/mounting/tab targeting was there whether I used the new native support alone or DS4Windows with HidHide. In both modes the delay is no longer there, or at least no longer noticeable, if I remember to wait until my character loads to connect the controller.

@ZOS_Kevin Could you pass that on to the team investigating this? ^

Even though I now have a workaround for this, and hopefully a proper fix will be forthcoming, I also want to add that my experience with the new native support over the past week has sent me back to using DS4Windows, although I had to start running HidHide as well in order to "opt out" of the native support and prevent the double input issues that are now otherwise occurring with third party solutions.

Here's my feedback on why I have felt that way. I figured I'd leave it here since it's on the topic of issues with the new native support rather than starting a whole new thread.

First, I want to say that I appreciate that the developers are trying to accommodate controller usage. Thank you for allocating the time and resources to gamepad support. I appreciate the intention behind it.

That said, a couple of general comments about the execution (speaking for myself here), with details in spoilers.

1) The implementation of the new native support falls noticeably short of that provided natively for Xbox controllers and provided for my DS4 by third party solutions.

For the past week I have constantly found myself running up against the question: why am I trying to deal with the problems and limitations of the native support, most of which do not seem to be bugs, when the extant third party solutions not only still work but work as well or better in every respect?

Details:

Spoiler

There seems to be nothing the native support offers that third party solutions do not already provide.

There is even an add-on to replace the Xbox keybind textures with PS icons if you like.

If all else were equal, I'd be happy to get rid of third party solutions and just use native support, but that requires the native support to provide the same basic functionality. It doesn't currently do that, and I'm unsure if it ever will.

The native support does not seem to work over Bluetooth.

Some games that support PlayStation controllers do so over wired/USB connections only, but some work over Bluetooth as well. I'm disappointed that this new native support doesn't include that for a couple of reasons. Bluetooth obviously offers much more flexibility for peripheral setups, which can be invaluable for situations where a device has a regrettably small number of ports (like my laptop) or where one wishes to minimize cable management. But the DS4 itself has also been shown to have notably less latency over Bluetooth compared to wired connections, and I cannot take advantage of that.

The native support also seems to have significant issues with the Share and Options buttons, unrelated to the known bug with input delay for "hold" keybinds like resurrecting, trading, mounting, and tab targeting:

The native support does not seem to recognize the Share button.

I'm not sure whether it is intended or a bug. In any case, the result is that I cannot use the Share button to open the map (tap) or to mount (hold) like I did before. The game rebinds those functions to the touchpad instead. Trying to set them back to Share doesn't work because the game just won't recognize it when I press Share in the rebinding pop-up, whether I use tap or hold.
Tapping the touchpad to bring up the map is something I might be able to get used to, as that's how it works in some other games, but I still always find the tactile feedback inferior compared to a normal button. Holding the touchpad to mount instead of holding a smaller, discrete button feels even worse to me. I don't have the certainty that my press is actually registering the same way I do with a button like Share, since the touchpad feels very floaty. It is simultaneously almost too easy to activate in some cases (see below) but hard to be sure when it's registering a hold. It's just a very awkward button, and disabling the Share button in favor of the touchpad is a noticeable downgrade in terms of the tactile experience.

Options + touchpad = getting stuck in PC chat with the controller input disabled

The native controller scheme's use of the touchpad is causing a serious issue for me where hitting Options and the touchpad simultaneously puts me into the PC chat with no way to get out. It's not the larger gamepad form of chat, which is possible to exit quickly via the controller. Options+touchpad makes my cursor active in the actual PC chat window, and it seems to disable controller inputs entirely. The only way out of this that I've found so far is to hit enter on the keyboard to exit chat and restore the controller functionality. This has caused significant problems in content. I try to rez a group member, and often my thumb grazes the touchpad, which is apparently very sensitive and easy to activate while pressing the small Options button. The rez stops, my character stops responding completely, and the game suddenly has my cursor flashing in chat. By the time I can realize what's happened and hit enter to get out of chat, I am either dead or mostly dead, and of course the group member is not rezzed either. I would have to find and disable this key combination for a usable experience in content. I never had an issue with this using a third party solution. I'm unclear why a combination this easy to activate by accident was chosen for a function that is so hard to undo, especially in combat.

The native support does not seem to include the rumble functionality.

Please correct me if there's a default setting I need to change. (And then also please explain why that default was changed.) I am very used to this feedback. There is always something that feels off without it. It is how I know if I've properly bashed a thing (not always a given), set a pick properly, or harvested a metal/jewelry/wood node successfully. If this were the only issue, I would try not to let it be a dealbreaker, but I'm at a loss as to why it wasn't included.

Lack of proper documentation regarding implementation and features

The nearly complete lack of documentation for this new support has also contributed to my frustration. While I'm grateful to Kevin for stepping in quickly to clarify this, the patch notes should have made clear that this "additional support" was actually native recognition of these controllers, meaning that third party solutions could be expected to interfere. I also still don't see any information provided about whether certain functionality is intentionally not supported (e.g. Bluetooth, the Share button, or rumble). That makes it hard to know what is bugged and what is just lacking, so I have no idea whether the native support will improve on these fronts in the future.

2) I also feel there was a missed opportunity here to fix some very long-standing issues for all gamepad users, no matter the controller or platform.

Details:

Spoiler

We cannot use consumables directly from inventory in gamepad mode in combat. No using potions, food, containers, etc., unless they are already quickslotted.
We cannot see the contents of a guild bank without also having permission to withdraw from it. Switching to keyboard mode immediately makes the contents visible.
We cannot pick up a treasure map if we already have a copy in our bank. In keyboard mode this can be done if the other copy is in your bank; the only condition is that you must not have one in your current inventory.
We cannot see critical tooltips like the fact that companions must have 5 pieces of a certain weight of armor equipped to level their rank in that skill line. This is not possible to infer, since they unlock the line with only 3 pieces, like we do, and players can level these lines with only 1 piece equipped.
We usually see a different population in Cyrodiil (1, 2, 3 bars) compared to keyboard mode in the same moment. I have seen this lead to actual arguments in zone chat on multiple occasions. This is because the game is showing players different population levels for the same actual population based on their input method. If the gamepad mode meter is doing this because it's based on the Cyrodiil player caps for console, it needs to be fixed so it properly reflects the caps for the appropriate platform.
We get a double rumble for harvesting metal/jewelry/wood nodes, even when Master Gatherer is maxed and slotted. My character is finished harvesting and is walking away when I get the second rumble. This bug is not only disorienting but also causes unnecessary physical wear-and-tear on the controller. Exactly how much will depend on how often one harvests those types of nodes, but it is unacceptable to my mind to let a bug continue to do that for years despite many reports.

These are inequalities that make the gamepad experience lesser than the keyboard equivalent without justification. They have been around a very long time and never been addressed, despite multiple reports over the years and multiple requests for acknowledgment.

So while I do sincerely appreciate gamepad support being given some attention this patch, I wish some of those resources had been dedicated to addressing long-standing issues that affect all gamepad users, with some extending to console players too.

MashmalloMan · March 2024

While the addition of native support was nice and very much appreciated... It's caused too many issues with the frame drops, now this, it's not implemented properly. I've gone to back to Bluetooth, with a cable connected to my wall outlet for power, using strictly steam support (DS4 Windows isn't necessary anymore).

There is no controller rumble/feedback.
There is no wireless Bluetooth, so if your controller happens to unplug or you have an iffy cable, you instantly lose controls.
By disabling steam controller support, I ran into issues where I couldn't activate ANY "hold" button effect. It wasn't just a delay, it wouldn't work at all. I had to reboot my game. This has happened multiple times.
The frame rate issue from 3rd party software is quite silly to me, no one in the office thought to test this? Steam is your biggest PC platform. How many current and potentially new players will just quit the game without finding a solution for this.
Native support changes the "share" button controls to the touchpad. Most likely because on PS4/PS5, that button is actually for sharing. However on PC, it's just the "select" button if anyone is familiar with PS1-PS3 gen. I could remap them for every single character, but I ask why should I when all the other problems are present?

I hope it gets to a better state one day, but this shouldn't have been released to the public. Please give us the option to disable it.

virtus753 · March 2024

MashmalloMan wrote: »

While the addition of native support was nice and very much appreciated... It's caused too many issues with the frame drops, now this, it's not implemented properly. I've gone to back to Bluetooth, with a cable connected to my wall outlet for power, using strictly steam support (DS4 Windows isn't necessary anymore).
There is no controller rumble/feedback.

There is no wireless Bluetooth, so if your controller happens to unplug or you have an iffy cable, you instantly lose controls.

By disabling steam controller support, I ran into issues where I couldn't activate ANY "hold" button effect. It wasn't just a delay, it wouldn't work at all. I had to reboot my game. This has happened multiple times.

The frame rate issue from 3rd party software is quite silly to me, no one in the office thought to test this? Steam is your biggest PC platform. How many current and potentially new players will just quit the game without finding a solution for this.

Native support changes the "share" button controls to the touchpad. Most likely because on PS4/PS5, that button is actually for sharing. However on PC, it's just the "select" button if anyone is familiar with PS1-PS3 gen. I could remap them for every single character, but I ask why should I when all the other problems are present?

I hope it gets to a better state one day, but this shouldn't have been released to the public. Please give us the option to disable it.

And just wait until you keeping getting stuck in PC chat in the middle of a rez during a vet HM prog by accidentally hitting Options+touchpad

I have found that I am able to effectively opt out of the new native controller support by using HidHide. I set it so that only DS4Windows can see my controller for what it is; everything else sees only the emulated input. It is working very well.

It might be worth trying with Steam? You'll have to set it so that only Steam is able to see your controller. If it works with Steam just like it does with DS4Windows, then the game will see only Steam's emulation and not the controller itself. That way you could go back to having your controller plugged into your PC without the double input issues.

ETA: Also, have you tried remapping things to Share? Because the game literally wouldn't recognize that button when I tried.

ZOS_Kevin · March 2024

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think I may have figured at least one issue, and it's having your controller plugged in to your PC before booting up the game. I don't know it causes an issue, as I'm no tech wiz, but keeping the controller unplugged until you've loaded onto your character seems to negate the hold delay.

If others can test this out, please let me know. I don't know if it'll work with keeping wireless controllers off until you load in, but maybe it will.

(I don't use ESO through Steam and have no 3rd party programs on as well)

Thank you for this info! I am passing this to the team now.

katanagirl1 · March 2024

I play on PS5 and I am confused about the discussion about the Share button in this context. Are you saying it is the small button on the upper left of the touchpad (which is where it is on my controller) or the touchpad itself?

virtus753 · March 2024

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I play on PS5 and I am confused about the discussion about the Share button in this context. Are you saying it is the small button on the upper left of the touchpad (which is where it is on my controller) or the touchpad itself?

Share is the small oval button next to the upper left corner of the touchpad on a DS4.

In my experience so far the native support for DS4 on PC disables this button and reassigns its functions to the touchpad. I tried rebinding them back to Share, but the game refused to recognize the input from the Share button when I tried.

Kavreiss · March 2024

The problem I was having yesterday was my PS4 controller was turbo firing despite not having a turbo function on my controller. Made it impossible to pick a lock. A logout and back in seems to have remedied it. Frankly I think their servers get hacked on a daily basis. I just can't come up with a better explanation that fits the wack stuff that goes on.

MashmalloMan · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

show previous quotes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I play on PS5 and I am confused about the discussion about the Share button in this context. Are you saying it is the small button on the upper left of the touchpad (which is where it is on my controller) or the touchpad itself?

Share is the small oval button next to the upper left corner of the touchpad on a DS4.

In my experience so far the native support for DS4 on PC disables this button and reassigns its functions to the touchpad. I tried rebinding them back to Share, but the game refused to recognize the input from the Share button when I tried.

I honestly didn't even try, this is even worse than I originally thought lol. The button does literally nothing on PC, we could have used it for multiple extra inputs when you consider press, hold, press + another. Infinite possibilities.

alternatelder · March 2024

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

show previous quotes

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

I think I may have figured at least one issue, and it's having your controller plugged in to your PC before booting up the game. I don't know it causes an issue, as I'm no tech wiz, but keeping the controller unplugged until you've loaded onto your character seems to negate the hold delay.

If others can test this out, please let me know. I don't know if it'll work with keeping wireless controllers off until you load in, but maybe it will.

(I don't use ESO through Steam and have no 3rd party programs on as well)

Thank you for this info! I am passing this to the team now.

Can you also pass on to the team this should be optional. It sounds like it disables some ds4 buttons. I trust my 3rd party software more than this official support. It worked flawlessly.

katanagirl1 · March 2024

virtus753 wrote: »

show previous quotes

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I play on PS5 and I am confused about the discussion about the Share button in this context. Are you saying it is the small button on the upper left of the touchpad (which is where it is on my controller) or the touchpad itself?

Share is the small oval button next to the upper left corner of the touchpad on a DS4.

In my experience so far the native support for DS4 on PC disables this button and reassigns its functions to the touchpad. I tried rebinding them back to Share, but the game refused to recognize the input from the Share button when I tried.

Oh that’s terrible. The touchpad is for mounting and the map.

alternatelder · March 2024

Still unable to get weapon swap, sheathe, etc to work. Can't use the pad button either. Any update for this? Can you please just put a disable option so I can go back to my 3rd party app? I barely play anyway on PC, guess I can just retire this one too.

virtus753 · March 2024

alternatelder wrote: »

Still unable to get weapon swap, sheathe, etc to work. Can't use the pad button either. Any update for this? Can you please just put a disable option so I can go back to my 3rd party app? I barely play anyway on PC, guess I can just retire this one too.

The input delay for hold keybinds is not specific to PlayStation controllers, so opting out of the new support will not fix that. Try leaving your controller disconnected until after your character loads, as suggested above. ZOS will need to fix this for a true solution.

To opt out of the native support for PlayStation controllers and continue to use your third party support, use HidHide to cloak the controller from the game so it only sees the emulated input from your third party program.

alternatelder · March 2024

I was using a bluetooth dongle for years prior to this change, which I still need for other things, but removing it and using my controller wired fixed everything, all buttons work like they do on PS. However, Zos still needs to fix this so it does work wirelessly.