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Not completely stacking siege weapons?

Füßchen
Füßchen
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I just collected my siege weapons to stack them, but noticed, that not all of them stack with each other?
The name appears to be the same and both are at full health, but the stack with 6 cold-fire ballistas and the one with 2 can't be combined into one? They're all at full health. The tooptip for the stack with 2 ballistas shows also only those two that I have in the inventory. The tooltip for the 6 ballistas shows 6 in my bag and also 2 that I've still got in my bank.
Maybe there is something that I overlook, but it seems somewhat strange ^^

Is anyone else encountering that too?

93lj7btwcbx1.png
  • acastanza_ESO
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    Yeah, so the issue here is that in the back end they aren't actually the same item. It actually happens with all the "Coldharbour" Siege (Cold Fire and Cold Stone, and both the Ballista and Trebs).

    I think its due to sourcing, specifically that the Coldharbour Siege that drops from Dolomens and the Coldharbour siege that drops from Mayhem for some reason have different back-end item IDs (the specifics are just speculation though).

    This quirk cropped up before in that if you quickslotted them it it would only pull from which ever type you'd slotted, not the combined stack. This is just the same thing.
  • MreeBiPolar
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    Yeah, so the issue here is that in the back end they aren't actually the same item. It actually happens with all the "Coldharbour" Siege (Cold Fire and Cold Stone, and both the Ballista and Trebs).

    I think its due to sourcing, specifically that the Coldharbour Siege that drops from Dolomens and the Coldharbour siege that drops from Mayhem for some reason have different back-end item IDs (the specifics are just speculation though).

    This quirk cropped up before in that if you quickslotted them it it would only pull from which ever type you'd slotted, not the combined stack. This is just the same thing.

    Actually, nope. They have the same item id, they have different item attributes. The ones I have not stacking are:

    |H1:item:64520:2:50:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h
    |H1:item:64520:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h

    Note that both are itemid 64520

    I don't know the itemlink format all too well too tell what's that 1 vs 50, but it's most certainly the same itemid.

    Checked with another player who had them not stack, only not AD but Pact, also cold stone trebuchets.

    Itemlinks are similarly:
    |H1:item:64519:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h
    |H1:item:64519:2:50:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h

    I didn't see anyone have any other non-stacking items besides colsdtone trebuchets yet tho.
    Edited by MreeBiPolar on March 11, 2024 6:06PM
  • VaxtinTheWolf
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    I wonder if it has any relation to repair kits that they had announced before, or maybe just overlooked? They already had pulled that part out of the update due to late issues they found. I haven't played the game in a while, so I don't know if siege stacked already or if it was also introduced with this update. I was able to stack a few of the seige weapons my storage alt had though.

    [ https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653774/update-on-cyrodiil-repair-kits#latest ]
    || AD - Rah'Jiin Lv50 Khajiit Nightblade (Damage) || EP - Generic Argonian Lv50 Argonian Nightblade (Tank) || DC - Zinkotsu Lv50 Breton Nightblade (Healer) ||
    || DC - Ja'Kiro Feral-Heart Lv50 Khajiit Dragonknight (Damage) || EP - VaxtinTheWolf Lv50 Redguard Templar (Tank) || AD - Velik Iranis Lv50 Dark Elf Sorcerer (Tank ) ||
    || EP - Einvarg The Frozen Lv50 Nord Warden (Tank/Healer) || EP - Keem-Ja Lv4 Argonian Necromancer (Healer/Tank) ||
    PC - North American Server (Champion 1300+)
  • acastanza_ESO
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    Yeah, so the issue here is that in the back end they aren't actually the same item. It actually happens with all the "Coldharbour" Siege (Cold Fire and Cold Stone, and both the Ballista and Trebs).

    I think its due to sourcing, specifically that the Coldharbour Siege that drops from Dolomens and the Coldharbour siege that drops from Mayhem for some reason have different back-end item IDs (the specifics are just speculation though).

    This quirk cropped up before in that if you quickslotted them it it would only pull from which ever type you'd slotted, not the combined stack. This is just the same thing.

    Actually, nope. They have the same item id, they have different item attributes. The ones I have not stacking are:

    |H1:item:64520:2:50:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h
    |H1:item:64520:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h

    Note that both are itemid 64520

    I don't know the itemlink format all too well too tell what's that 1 vs 50, but it's most certainly the same itemid.

    Checked with another player who had them not stack, only not AD but Pact, also cold stone trebuchets.

    Itemlinks are similarly:
    |H1:item:64519:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h
    |H1:item:64519:2:50:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h

    I didn't see anyone have any other non-stacking items besides colsdtone trebuchets yet tho.

    Yeah, okay, not itemID specifically but basically those different attributes are the issue.
  • FlopsyPrince
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    I thought they didn't stack at all, I didn't catch the supposed change. Though too much of my bag space is filled up with these needlessly.
    PC
    PS4/PS5
  • acastanza_ESO
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    I also wanted to note that sometimes they aren't automatically stacking, or responding to the stack items hotkey, you might have to manually drag and drop them onto the others to get it to work
  • kringled_1
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    Some of the coldharbour siege gear has (or had) a hidden level value, where lower level characters couldn't use the siege until they'd leveled up. I don't know if this is still the case, but seeing 50 as one of the two entries there makes me wonder if that's it. I don't have any U50 characters on my main account to check.
  • acastanza_ESO
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    kringled_1 wrote: »
    Some of the coldharbour siege gear has (or had) a hidden level value, where lower level characters couldn't use the siege until they'd leveled up. I don't know if this is still the case, but seeing 50 as one of the two entries there makes me wonder if that's it. I don't have any U50 characters on my main account to check.

    Yeah that's definitely it.
  • Panthermic
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    The |H1:item:64512:2:50:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 is the level restricted that is not usable U50.
    The |H1:item:64512:2:1:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0 is not restricted.

    9fEnRgW.png

    So it seems the :50: makes it usable from level 50, and the :1: makes it usable from level 1.
  • SeaGtGruff
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    I'm not sure why any of them ever needed to be level-restricted, but until there's a change to remove that restriction and make everything stack together, my recommendation would be to use up the level-restricted ones first-- or vice versa, whichever has the smaller stack-- or else just live with it as is. Honestly, for me any stacking at all is better than no stacking, since I have so many of these things in my inventories and bank accounts. I almost never actually buy them from the merchants, so all of the ones I've got were either obtained as rewards or looted from the corpses of Imperials I'd killed.

    And yes, I'm that guy who comes to the front line with no siege, because even though I have a ton of siege engines they were always too burdensome to carry around or keep handy in the bank due to not stacking at all, hence I've moved most of them into "storage" on mule alts. Now I'll actually be able to carry siege around with me and have it ready for use on my main! :)
    I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!
  • jcaceresw
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    Too bad the stacking is only up to 20 instead of 200 as most other stacks (poisons being the exception to 1k). Perhaps next patch they could increase this amount?
  • Carylas
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    I noticed this too. I have a couple of Dominion Cold Fire Trebuchets, and one of them wasn't stacked with the rest. The only difference it has it is damaged and the ones in the stack have full health.
  • Myrnhiel
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    Carylas wrote: »
    I noticed this too. I have a couple of Dominion Cold Fire Trebuchets, and one of them wasn't stacked with the rest. The only difference it has it is damaged and the ones in the stack have full health.

    But that is actually intended.
    Stackable Siege Weaponry
    Cyrodiil siege engineers have figured out how to condense siege weaponry so it stacks! Cyrodiil Siege Weapons will now stack up to 20 if they are at maximum health. When placing siege weaponry from a quickslot, it will use the siege weapon with the lowest health in your inventory to help ensure your bag space stays fresh.

    The problem is that, when you repair them, you cannot repair them above 99% because they always deteriorate a bit before you can put them away, no matter how fast you are. So once a siege engine has been damaged, it will never go back to the stack, even if you repair it. If you still have several damaged siege engines in you inventory/bank from before the patch, they will still not stack with the others.
    Edited by Myrnhiel on March 12, 2024 6:58AM
  • tomfant
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    Carylas wrote: »
    I noticed this too. I have a couple of Dominion Cold Fire Trebuchets, and one of them wasn't stacked with the rest. The only difference it has it is damaged and the ones in the stack have full health.

    That is the expected behaviour. Damaged siege engines don't stack.

    Unfortunately there is no way to bring damaged sieges back to 100% health. You can put the down in Cyro and repair, but it takes too long to put them away so they take damage again.
    Edited by tomfant on March 12, 2024 7:00AM
  • Jaraal
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    Yeah, so the issue here is that in the back end they aren't actually the same item. It actually happens with all the "Coldharbour" Siege (Cold Fire and Cold Stone, and both the Ballista and Trebs).

    I think its due to sourcing, specifically that the Coldharbour Siege that drops from Dolomens and the Coldharbour siege that drops from Mayhem for some reason have different back-end item IDs (the specifics are just speculation though).

    This quirk cropped up before in that if you quickslotted them it it would only pull from which ever type you'd slotted, not the combined stack. This is just the same thing.

    I wonder if that has to do with the unfixed misspelling of the items. The game calls them Cold Harbor rather than the correct Coldharbour.

    jcyq73nk8m0p.png

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/571160/cold-fire-and-cold-harbor-ballista
    Edited by Jaraal on March 12, 2024 12:31PM
    RIP Bosmer Nation. 4/4/14 - 2/25/19.
  • Füßchen
    Füßchen
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    Myrnhiel wrote: »
    The problem is that, when you repair them, you cannot repair them above 99% because they always deteriorate a bit before you can put them away, no matter how fast you are. So once a siege engine has been damaged, it will never go back to the stack, even if you repair it. If you still have several damaged siege engines in you inventory/bank from before the patch, they will still not stack with the others.

    That is something I noticed again too when I tried to repair some of my sieges while the last mayhem was going on.
    It did bother me then too, when looking at the tooltip, but now with the stacking sieges it isn't only annoying then, but also because we can't get them to stack again.

    It would be really cool if they were changed, so that they don't deteriorate for 2 or 3 seconds after you repair them, so you could at least pick them up again and stack them if you hurry. Or I don't know there was a place in base where you could place siege weapons to repair them without them deteriorating at all.
    At the moment they deteriorate really fast if you place them in base for repairing and it only gets faster the longer they stand. I had one with around 1/3 health left and while repairing it lost helath so fast that it was still losing health over all while I was repairing it. I had to pick it up one or two times to get it to full (or nearly full) health again. I did it mostly to get rid of the siege-repair-kits, but still ^^
    That they lose health and disappear after some time so that there aren't any siege slots blocked forever if no one picks them up or burns them is a good thing, but it would still be nice to repair them somewhere without risking to lose them just by placing them. Plus having the chance to get down to 1 stack again instead of having several single ones would be even better than the added stacking is right now. Especially for those of us who don't pvp all the time, so we wouldn't need to decide if we'd rather waste inventory/bank space with partly damaged sieges or trash them to free the slots again.

  • Füßchen
    Füßchen
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    Now I wonder if you can repair them as a team? So you place them a friend repairs them and you pick them up right after? Is it possible to be fast enough that way so that they still have 100% health then? Has anyone ever tested that?

    I'd really like to try that right now, but since my boyfriends game doesn't start since the update, I'm missing a person to test that with at the moment =/
  • Füßchen
    Füßchen
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    Ok, so in theory it is possible to get them to full health, BUT that doesn't matter for stacking because the item then is still different from before and they're probably still not considered "full health" from the game, so you can't even stack those that you repaired to full health on each other (both were |H1:item:27965:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:150000:0|h|h).

    100% after buying: |H1:item:27965:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0|h|h
    100% after repairing in a team: |H1:item:27965:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:149500:0|h|h or |H1:item:27965:2:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:150000:0|h|h (I guess one is not really at full health, but you can't see it, just from the tooltip)

  • Jimbru
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    I noticed this too with Cold Stone Trebs. I have a stack of 2 and a stack of 9 after the patch, and TTC definitely sees them as two different items in its database. How high do they stack anyway?
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Jimbru wrote: »
    I noticed this too with Cold Stone Trebs. I have a stack of 2 and a stack of 9 after the patch, and TTC definitely sees them as two different items in its database. How high do they stack anyway?

    the stack limit for siege is 20 per stack
    SeaGtGruff wrote: »
    I'm not sure why any of them ever needed to be level-restricted, but until there's a change to remove that restriction and make everything stack together, my recommendation would be to use up the level-restricted ones first-- or vice versa, whichever has the smaller stack-- or else just live with it as is. Honestly, for me any stacking at all is better than no stacking, since I have so many of these things in my inventories and bank accounts. I almost never actually buy them from the merchants, so all of the ones I've got were either obtained as rewards or looted from the corpses of Imperials I'd killed.

    And yes, I'm that guy who comes to the front line with no siege, because even though I have a ton of siege engines they were always too burdensome to carry around or keep handy in the bank due to not stacking at all, hence I've moved most of them into "storage" on mule alts. Now I'll actually be able to carry siege around with me and have it ready for use on my main! :)

    it could have been some leftover from some event, the pvp event would give coldharbour siege from the reward boxes, and there could have been a difference between ones earned naturally (from cyro dolmens) and ones earned from the event (in the pelinel boxes)
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Jimbru
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    How can we tell from in game which stack is which? Level restricted or not?
  • CGPsaint
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    Comment deleted as my views and opinions are not relevant to ZoS.
    Edited by CGPsaint on April 19, 2024 12:41AM
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
  • Necrotech_Master
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    Jimbru wrote: »
    How can we tell from in game which stack is which? Level restricted or not?

    with the normal game UI, i dont think theres an easy way to do that, as the only way people found out that something was off was looking at the code for the item link (when you go to link an item in chat), though it normally doesnt display it as the "code" unless you have too many characters in your chat and the link gets slightly cut off, or you use an addon to look at the item "link code")
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • virtus753
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    Jimbru wrote: »
    How can we tell from in game which stack is which? Level restricted or not?

    with the normal game UI, i dont think theres an easy way to do that, as the only way people found out that something was off was looking at the code for the item link (when you go to link an item in chat), though it normally doesnt display it as the "code" unless you have too many characters in your chat and the link gets slightly cut off, or you use an addon to look at the item "link code")

    You can also tell level restricted items without the item code by putting them in the inventory of a lower level character, if you have any. They will be red to mark them as unusable. That’s how I noticed it years ago. It’s been bug reported for years, to no avail. Hopefully now that it’s preventing stacking they’ll finally get rid of the hidden requirement.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    virtus753 wrote: »
    Jimbru wrote: »
    How can we tell from in game which stack is which? Level restricted or not?

    with the normal game UI, i dont think theres an easy way to do that, as the only way people found out that something was off was looking at the code for the item link (when you go to link an item in chat), though it normally doesnt display it as the "code" unless you have too many characters in your chat and the link gets slightly cut off, or you use an addon to look at the item "link code")

    You can also tell level restricted items without the item code by putting them in the inventory of a lower level character, if you have any. They will be red to mark them as unusable. That’s how I noticed it years ago. It’s been bug reported for years, to no avail. Hopefully now that it’s preventing stacking they’ll finally get rid of the hidden requirement.

    true, but only works if you HAVE low lvl characters lol

    and i believe it is on their table to fix it
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
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