Make jabs great again - a case for buffing templar in PVE and reverting the jab change

BlueMoonRising

Templar sucks. I know it. You know it. Everybody knows it.
Before, jabs used to mean something. When people saw you jabbing they got scared. When you were doing trials and everyone was swapping builds for every little encounter, but you were just jabbing and outparsing them, they felt stupid for losing to 2 button class. But the year is 2024 and jabs suck hard. Before, you were holding a machine gun. Now you're holding a BB gun.
Considering we already have a 1 button class that's hyper overperforming (arcanist) and we also have an insanely tanky build that can clear trial HMs (heavy attack sorc), I don't see any reason at all to not revert all the nerfs/changes to jabs and make templar great again.

When we're talking about jabs, we're actually talking about 3 crucial elements of playing a templar: 1) jabs (obviously), 2) beam and 3) Burning Light passive. Burning Light used to be balanced around jabs/skills from Aedric Spear skill line - it dealt insane damage, but at the same time you were forced to use this skill that might not be perfect in some situations. This was good because it gave templar a strong class identity and it was also fun to play around that passive. Templar WAS the melee jab guy, that's what they did best. The fact that jabs had so many downsides - cast time and melee range - meant that they could in turn be really strong. But to make things interesting and to not be perma jabbing, templar also has an insane execute skill - jesus beam. So in olden days you needed to balance out jabbing and beaming and resource sustain to perform well with a class that also offered a lot of team utility.

With homogenizing every class to make them watered down versions of themselves, just so they could be "balanced" on some spreadsheet, templar became a lot less fun for multiple reasons. Many of its utility spells got nerfed or straight up removed (namely Ritual of Retribution - one of the most fun parts of the class, the skill that does good aoe damage in crazy radius that heals teammates, lost it's healing effect for pretty much no compensation. It's actually not the only skill/class to get treated the same way - similar thing happened to nightblades with Swallow Soul and they have been in the dumpster for many years now, but nobody cares about nighblades, this post is about templars). Obviously jabs got changed/nerfed and the supposed compensations for it is the low cast time (<1s) which nobody asked for anyways, and also the fact that you can proc Burning Light on all damage skills. This last part might sound fun in theory to some bow enjoyer or a level 30 tank that likes to kill mudcrabs in Vvardenfell, but in reality you're now putting in a lot more work for worse outcome. Nobody wants to see or use spasming jabs that deal no damage and 10 same dots that now every class must use, we just want to jab (and at some point beam when boss is low enough) - and I really want to emphasize this, because having a Blazing Spear, one of the most iconic class skills, is now not recommended anymore or at least it optional. The only way to "balance" all these nerfs out was to buff jesus beam. So that's how templar turned from 2 button class to 1 button class - the only thing that's actually good about it now is just beam. And that's not enough in a world where you have arcanist dealing 100k dps on every mob their beam touches.

So to sum up:
1) templar sucks and it's not fun because it's main skill sucks - previous iteration of jabs was million times better
2) templar sucks because it does bad damage, especially in situations that actually matter (aka not dummy humping)
3) templar sucks because all the other fun skills it used to have got nerfed

I think ZOS should promote strong class identity and make most classes competitive in real content. Nowadays 90% of classes in raids are stam arcanists, and it's doesn't look like this is going to change with the next patch. The remaining 10% are there solely for the class buffs. Older classes can be a lot of fun if you just make their numbers not sucks and do a few tweaks so their skills aren't so boring. Please consider reverting some of the templar changes because it used to be one of the most fun, creative and unique classes in the game.

wilykcat

My main is a templar melee dps. I have two sets equipped such as deadly strikes and such. I still do less damage than the other dps. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this problem 😅 playing templar in pve.

I agree that templars do need major buffs. Make templars great again. 👍

Araneae6537

We another term besides “class identity” maybe “unique playstyle” or something along those lines. “Class identity” just got us class-locked t-shirts.

yadibroz

wilykcat wrote: »

My main is a templar melee dps. I have two sets equipped such as deadly strikes and such. I still do less damage than the other dps. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has this problem 😅 playing templar in pve.

I agree that templars do need major buffs. Make templars great again. 👍

Me too glad I'm not only one too

ItsNotLiving

Templar sucks there’s no doubt about it but playing against templars in PvP was exhausting it had way too much damage between jabs and burning light. The base tooltips for one set of jabs and a burning light proc was higher than assassins wills tooltip. All they needed to do was adjust burning light not completely gut jabs. Templar sucks and imo it’s because the Dawns Wrath tree is garbage with power of the light nerfed and the sun ball being entirely irrelevant unless you want to use a 40 second dot for some reason. The jab nerf just exposed all the flaws Templar had.

LunaFlora

"When people saw you jabbing they got scared."
i uh never got scared.

i agree Templar needs buffs.
However i never even liked using Jabs before update 35 so definitely don't consider it Templar's main skill, it's just the first Aedric Spear skill.


i have fun with my templars by using skills like Radiant Opression, Crescent Sweep, Solar Barrage, and Reflective Light.

moderatelyfatman

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Templar sucks there’s no doubt about it but playing against templars in PvP was exhausting it had way too much damage between jabs and burning light. The base tooltips for one set of jabs and a burning light proc was higher than assassins wills tooltip. All they needed to do was adjust burning light not completely gut jabs. Templar sucks and imo it’s because the Dawns Wrath tree is garbage with power of the light nerfed and the sun ball being entirely irrelevant unless you want to use a 40 second dot for some reason. The jab nerf just exposed all the flaws Templar had.

If you thought Jabs was bad before patch 35, how is it better now that Beam is overpowered? Nothing stinks more than having 2-3 templars zerging and spamming Beam and executing you from full health.

I'd like to see a buff to templar jabs and a nerf to templar Beam. Maybe allow the stamina morph to do more damage than the magicka version to make up for the loss of healing and allow PvE Stamplar to be a thing again?

CrazyKitty

Great sentiments in this thread, but how many times has this discussion been posted now since before U35 even dropped?

gariondavey

Yeah, feels like falling on deaf ears. PvP templar main here. Been advocating along with so many others for the reversal of the u35 templar changes.

Araneae6537

I think every class but DK was better before the infamous u35

AcadianPaladin

I came close to rage quitting the game after the dumpster fire that was Update 35. Jabs was just a small part of that catastrophe. In desperation I tried - and fell in love with - Oakensoul and decided to stay with ESO. For now.

Back to jabs though, my magplar used to jab away under shards and was glorious to play. Now she spams shards until 40% then spams beam. Not as effective and not as fun.

merpins

Jabs animation blows. Said it before, gone over why in depth. If they just reverted the animation, I'd be happy. Personally don't care if the damage is there, damage comes and goes in ESO, and Templar will be strong again at some point. But I don't like how the new jabs animation feels to use.

Yes templar needs buffs. But how a class feels to play is more important imo.

Nilandia

PVE templar damage is in a good place right now. In terms of actual numbers, the class is doing very well. Upper end groups will often outright reserve a DPS slot for a plar in certain trials, including scorepushing groups.

That said, the style of play at those levels may not be what all players are looking for, which is completely understandable. No class is going to appeal to all players, especially since classes change over time. I'm not a fan of the jabs animation myself, much preferring the old animation.

the1andonlyskwex

Templar may be a little on the weak side now, but old jabs was way overpowered. Jabs now is still better than some of the other class spammables. If/when ZOS buffs templar, they should buff something other than jabs.

DigiAngel

Try Sellistrix monster set, Vengeance Leech, and Deadly Strike. While things are on the ground stunned you can just happily jab away.