[Arcanist] Tentacular Dread should build Crux, not consume them

DuskShard · February 25

In order to make the magicka version of the Arcanist a bit more different than its stamina counterpart, the skill Tentacular Dread should build crux. Magicka Arcanists either rely on the stam version of the skill (with a limited stam pool) or are forced to use Runeblades, which isn't a comparable option DPS-wise and the skill has no group utility. The magicka Arcanist currently struggles with Crux building and this simple change would help a lot. Thank you.

Uvi_AUT · February 26

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

KS_Amt38 · February 26

Why are all tentacles spammables only stam? That cripples any kind of Magicka Arcanist Gameplay. Just make it like most skills that it the cost is determined by your higher ressource.

Daoin · February 26

none of that is true i have no problem at with magicka arcanist building crux or the use of runblades or reaching some quite good dps levels without having to weave

Daoin · February 26

Daoin · February 26

just becasue you are a magicka based simply does not mean you cannot use any stamina skills very effectively too. that being said i always imagines the one morph of runeblades early gameplay which could use a touch up if its not for that and then the other morph once character is developed enough

Marto · February 26

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

Tentacular Dread is meant as a debuff you cast every handful of seconds. That's what makes it unique and interesting, and turning it into "Cephaliarch's Flail but a different color" would be a waste.

That's one of the best things about Arcanistl. Skills can be spammable or not, be a core part of your rotation or not, and be casted often or not depending on your build, morph choice, and gameplay style.

The whole point of hybridization is to get rid all the correct/incorrect morph choices. You shouldn't feel forced to pick the stamina morph because you're a "magicka build", or vice versa.

CameraBeardThePirate · February 26

Marto wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

Tentacular Dread is meant as a debuff you cast every handful of seconds. That's what makes it unique and interesting, and turning it into "Cephaliarch's Flail but a different color" would be a waste.

That's one of the best things about Arcanistl. Skills can be spammable or not, be a core part of your rotation or not, and be casted often or not depending on your build, morph choice, and gameplay style.

The whole point of hybridization is to get rid all the correct/incorrect morph choices. You shouldn't feel forced to pick the stamina morph because you're a "magicka build", or vice versa.

Except Tentacular is just... bad. It's meant to be a burst tool but it's outclassed by Fatecarver, and using them together isn't really an option because of the crux system. It needs love. A ~20% boost in its 3x Crux damage would help solidify it as a burst tool. There's pretty much no reason to ever slot Tentacular.

Toanis · February 26

Fatecarver is fine in a boss fight with a tank. Against trash generating crux with runeblades already does most of the job. In solo content Fatecarver is easily interrupted, and in PVP easily outmaneuvered. This is where Tentacular comes in.

katanagirl1 · February 26

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

Tentacular Dread is meant as a debuff you cast every handful of seconds. That's what makes it unique and interesting, and turning it into "Cephaliarch's Flail but a different color" would be a waste.

That's one of the best things about Arcanistl. Skills can be spammable or not, be a core part of your rotation or not, and be casted often or not depending on your build, morph choice, and gameplay style.

The whole point of hybridization is to get rid all the correct/incorrect morph choices. You shouldn't feel forced to pick the stamina morph because you're a "magicka build", or vice versa.

Except Tentacular is just... bad. It's meant to be a burst tool but it's outclassed by Fatecarver, and using them together isn't really an option because of the crux system. It needs love. A ~20% boost in its 3x Crux damage would help solidify it as a burst tool. There's pretty much no reason to ever slot Tentacular.

I partially agree. With arcanist you pretty much have to take both stam and magicka skills regardless of what resource pool is larger. The fact that some skills use the max resource and some the min resource makes it easier to run a hybrid. I just question why the stam build is easier to use and has better sustain than magicka, in my experience. The two morphs of flail just seem like a flagrant disregard for class balance in my opinion.

Daoin · February 26

Toanis wrote: »

Fatecarver is fine in a boss fight with a tank. Against trash generating crux with runeblades already does most of the job. In solo content Fatecarver is easily interrupted, and in PVP easily outmaneuvered. This is where Tentacular comes in.

to be honest im not aware of many mobs that can hold thier own against a fully cruxed up fatecarver

tsaescishoeshiner · February 26

Instead, I think that Tentacular Dread should be improved as a crux spender. Currently, Fatecarver is the only DPS crux spender, and it would be nice for build diversity to have a second option.

Maybe it could:

at 3 crux, causes a tentacle/rune to spawn under the target that gives you a buff or deals damage
at 3 crux, creates an AoE DoT under the target. Hitting a target already in your AoE deals bonus damage.
buff your direct damage
apply status effects base on how many crux you spend
briefly give you a buff like Major Berserk/Cowardice/Force depending on your crux spent

Daoin · February 26

without taking every player in eso into consideration when making the next changes to the arcanist by the eso team i would agree improvements away from fatecarver now are a good idea actually. i mean im not expecting anything to be as clumbsy to use than my warden at the moment or anytime soon even though i still enjoy warden i'll probably still enjoy arcanist too no matter what

Uvi_AUT · February 28

Marto wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

I said instead. If you change Dread to a builder you would again end up with the same skill-setup, making the char even more boring skillselectionwise than it already is. There needs to be OTHER Builders. Any other class can choose their spammables, only Arcanist cant.

Shadowbinder7 · July 22

DuskShard wrote: »

In order to make the magicka version of the Arcanist a bit more different than its stamina counterpart, the skill Tentacular Dread should build crux. Magicka Arcanists either rely on the stam version of the skill (with a limited stam pool) or are forced to use Runeblades, which isn't a comparable option DPS-wise and the skill has no group utility. The magicka Arcanist currently struggles with Crux building and this simple change would help a lot. Thank you.

Tentacular dread is getting a buff to crux consumed damage in U43.

ZOS Devs… WHYYYYYYYY?????

Make it a crux consumer to be fair to magicka arcanist!!! And buff runeblades

It’s so easy. Why are you messing up your own game. Yes I said it. There was no sense to this change gameplay wise, anyone who has played Magicka Arcanist with RUNEBLADES SPAM pve or pvp knows what I’m talking about

I don’t want to spam cephaliarch on my Mag arc. My arc wizard gets tired easily with his low stam pool

Shadowbinder7 · July 22

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

I said instead. If you change Dread to a builder you would again end up with the same skill-setup, making the char even more boring skillselectionwise than it already is. There needs to be OTHER Builders. Any other class can choose their spammables, only Arcanist cant.

I want to spam runeblades and use tentacular dread as a debuff, while using beam. I can’t do this when tentacular consumes crux, since the uptime of beam is severely reduced.

GET IT???? Yes ZOS please read! Please test it yourself and consider how it ruins the gameplay for magicka

Shadowbinder7 · July 22

katanagirl1 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Uvi_AUT wrote: »

I much rather have all Spammables from all Skill-Lines build Crux instead of reducing available Builds even further.
As it is now Magicka and Stamina-Arcanist play exactly the same without the possibility to even mix in Weaponskills.

Except Tentacular Dread is not a spammable. Cephaliarch's Flail is.

Tentacular Dread is meant as a debuff you cast every handful of seconds. That's what makes it unique and interesting, and turning it into "Cephaliarch's Flail but a different color" would be a waste.

That's one of the best things about Arcanistl. Skills can be spammable or not, be a core part of your rotation or not, and be casted often or not depending on your build, morph choice, and gameplay style.

The whole point of hybridization is to get rid all the correct/incorrect morph choices. You shouldn't feel forced to pick the stamina morph because you're a "magicka build", or vice versa.

Except Tentacular is just... bad. It's meant to be a burst tool but it's outclassed by Fatecarver, and using them together isn't really an option because of the crux system. It needs love. A ~20% boost in its 3x Crux damage would help solidify it as a burst tool. There's pretty much no reason to ever slot Tentacular.

I partially agree. With arcanist you pretty much have to take both stam and magicka skills regardless of what resource pool is larger. The fact that some skills use the max resource and some the min resource makes it easier to run a hybrid. I just question why the stam build is easier to use and has better sustain than magicka, in my experience. The two morphs of flail just seem like a flagrant disregard for class balance in my opinion.

Agreed

Elyu · July 22

There's been several posts on the forums about this (including by me).

Leaving PvP aside and just talking about PvE:
There is so much incentive to use flail + beam you are genuinely shooting yourself int he foot if you use ANY other skill combo as an arcanist DPS.

Fail: AoE skill, Builds crux, unique debuff, builds crux
Beam: Spend crux for massive AoE dmg

If you were to instead use the "alternate" playstyle you have:

Runeblades: builds crux (+ tiny AoE dmg depending on morph)
Tentacular Dread: Aoe skill, ok dmg if at full crux, unique debuff

So the options are:
Massive AoE AND ST dmg with built in execute into rotation
vs
Mediocre Single target dmg + some cleave dmg

Unless all 3 of these skills are rebalanced from the ground up to make it a choice between AoE or ST I doubt the "meta" skill choice will ever change

BasP · July 22

I'd actually prefer it if Tentacular Dread would remain a Crux consumer but applied an even stronger debuff on your enemy so that a player that used Runeblades, Tentacular Dread and Fatecarver optimally would do a bit more DPS than a player that just used Cephaliarch's Flail and Fatecarver. After all, you're giving up a bar slot and end up with a rotation that requires slightly more effort from the user.

In the end, I just think that it would be nice if there were two different playstyles that both made use of Fatecarver. If Tentacular Dread would build Crux just like Flail, however, a Magicka and Stamina Arcanist would play the exact same.

notyuu · July 22

BasP wrote: »

I'd actually prefer it if Tentacular Dread would remain a Crux consumer but applied an even stronger debuff on your enemy so that a player that used Runeblades, Tentacular Dread and Fatecarver optimally would do a bit more DPS than a player that just used Cephaliarch's Flail and Fatecarver. After all, you're giving up a bar slot and end up with a rotation that requires slightly more effort from the user.

In the end, I just think that it would be nice if there were two different playstyles that both made use of Fatecarver. If Tentacular Dread would build Crux just like Flail, however, a Magicka and Stamina Arcanist would play the exact same.

well the debuff is already +11% damage done to the target and the burst damage per crux consumed is going up in the upcomming patch (unless it gets nerfed on pts)

plus, the player that uses blades, dread and carver already does do more DPS (at least over a long enough fight due to the superior debuff) as despite what the OP claims runeblades is comparable in power to flail (tested it when i first put together my arcanist, 30 parses using only each skill vs a standard skele dummy, and another 30 vs a cluster of them, runeblades was only ~100 dps behind on adverage, sure, flail had a higher crit burst but blades crit more often due to the build in crit buff, as a result they kinda cancled out)