The terror of PvP

Drammanoth

A disclaimer - I play PvE mostly, but I do not shy away from PvP when I go with my guildies.

Why are people so terrified of PvP? Is it because they've never experienced it? Are they terrified they will become cannon fodder? Are they afraid of being insta-killed? Do they expect to always win? Do they not have anyone to go to Cyro with?

When I see this drama about ZOS making us kill 15 players, or 7 WB in IC, OR doing a PvE by doing 4 trials, I'm baffled...

I went with my necro-heal lizard, was there for 15-30 minutes, died several times and left after completing the endeavour.

Now, a request for PvP-loving folks: what can you say to those PvEers who freeze at the very thought of PvE? (yes, this is a hyperbole)

---

EDIT:

Thank you to all who provide their feedback! This is much appreciated, and maybe it will show other PvEers how PvPers see it, and that they can see both sides of the same coin. Maybe it wll also give some food for thought to ZOS on how to remedy some pains and highlight our fears or whatnot.

JonesFPS

Well people want free *** and if its not free they want it to be easy.
And if its not easy they wanna be able to buy it.

And i guess people like to complain in general.
Some people just lack the understanding that in order to achieve something you have to work for it.

Sarannah

JonesFPS wrote: »

Well people want free *** and if its not free they want it to be easy.
And if its not easy they wanna be able to buy it.

And i guess people like to complain in general.
Some people just lack the understanding that in order to achieve something you have to work for it.

That goes the other way as well... PvPers should have to work for their kills against PvPers, not get PvE players dangled in front of them for easy kills.

As someone who played a mainly PvP centric MMO for 20+ years(much much much faster than ESO's PvP), I know I have gotten too old for that stuff. And simply no longer want to take part in that part of games, and just relax while playing. PvP is a high stress environment, which is something I want to avoid as I no longer care for that thrill. Nor do I want to buttonsmash like that ever again(that other MMO was about 20 keys or buttons/second, and you lost if you missed just one of those). Or in your words: I no longer want to "work" for it. Work does not fit a game in my opinion(goes for both PvP as well as the PvE combat system).

As someone who came from a PvP MMO, I still do very well in PvP on my PvP characters and am still quite faster than most players I encounter. When I do a BG or Cyrodiil PvP, I quite often win 1-on-1's, sometimes even against PvPers. Even though I don't barswap or use potions.

I get the PvP mindset, but I have left that mindset behind when I got older. Some people just do not want to PvP, no matter how often we get pushed into that PvP zone. Whatever their reasons are for not wanting to PvP, those are their reasons and should be respected.

Another issue with ESO's PvP is: The entry level is much much too high! Especially too high to push (PvE) players who aren't ready for it into the PvP zones. That is only going to make them hate it even more.

PS: I'm not going to preload quests to turn them in during this event.

evymyu233

i got grand overlord by using siege and flaming oil

Vulkunne

Drammanoth wrote: »

A disclaimer - I play PvE mostly, but I do not shy away from PvP when I go with my guildies.

Why are people so terrified of PvP? Is it because they've never experienced it? Are they terrified they will become cannon fodder? Are they afraid of being insta-killed? Do they expect to always win? Do they not have anyone to go to Cyro with?

When I see this drama about ZOS making us kill 15 players, or 7 WB in IC, OR doing a PvE by doing 4 trials, I'm baffled...

I went with my necro-heal lizard, was there for 15-30 minutes, died several times and after completing the endeavour.

Now, a request for PvP-loving folks: what can you say to those PvEers who freeze at the very thought of PvE? (yes, this is a hyperbole)

The problem I think is most players don't know where to start. If the game was more like Oblivion where you had organized choices then that might help. In this game its like the 'right' choice is there but you need to know more about combat and skills in order to make that choice. And that's where the waters are deep because there is a steep learning curve to not just PvPing but being successful and not feeling 'embarrassed'.

Many are not willing to eat that humble pie and take on that initial risk, which its their choice of course. Everyone will not be able to walk on water right away, if nothing else for fear of drowning. But really PvP is about fighting other people and many of us come out-of-the-box with that mindset already, (from real life even) and so that by itself is half the battle. For many though I suspect this is another undiscovered country and line of contention they fear to cross, which I can sympathize with.

Still, I feel that not stepping up -ever- to challenge these lines is not healthy either and serves no one.

moo_2021

Drammanoth wrote: »

A disclaimer - I play PvE mostly, but I do not shy away from PvP when I go with my guildies.

Why are people so terrified of PvP? Is it because they've never experienced it? Are they terrified they will become cannon fodder? Are they afraid of being insta-killed? Do they expect to always win? Do they not have anyone to go to Cyro with?

When I see this drama about ZOS making us kill 15 players, or 7 WB in IC, OR doing a PvE by doing 4 trials, I'm baffled...

I went with my necro-heal lizard, was there for 15-30 minutes, died several times and after completing the endeavour.

Now, a request for PvP-loving folks: what can you say to those PvEers who freeze at the very thought of PvE? (yes, this is a hyperbole)

We need a cross alliance knight order acting as law enforcers, rooting out highway robbers and such.


But hey why not ask someone from another alliance to get killed by each other in a secret site?

Aurielle

Drammanoth wrote: »

Now, a request for PvP-loving folks: what can you say to those PvEers who freeze at the very thought of PvE? (yes, this is a hyperbole)

Play silly music in the background while you’re in Cyrodiil. I’m serious.

https://youtu.be/DERi8wyKV6s

If you die while the theme song from Monty Python and the Holy Grail or Benny Hill is playing in the background, I assure you it won’t feel stressful.

Estin

I will say it's the fear of being embarrassed. They have no knowledge on how to PvP, so they're incapable of fighting back, and when a player comes to attack them, they either embarrassingly stand there until they die, or embarrassingly run away until they die. Then comes the fear of getting flamed or teabagged upon death, which would embarrass them even further.

The first fear can be easily overcome by understanding that there's no consequence in death, and that everyone, even good players, die all the time. It also helps to do some basic research into builds, even if it's simple crafted sets with oakensoul equipped. A build that has the bare minimum optimization for PvP will fair a lot better than any PvE setup. I made a basic build for my warden that uses the asylum's ice staff. The thing instantly zaps players into dust and it's insane how easy it was to make. It's more than enough to defend myself during WSM on that character since I intend to use him as a mule for IC reward coffers.

The second fear can be gotten over when you realize that the likelihood of it happening is near 0. I started PvPing a lot last year and after a couple hundred or so hours, I've only been teabagged once by a bad player, and flamed once by someone cowardly appearing offline so I couldn't respond.

Veryamedliel

@Sarannah summarized it pretty well.

Some people are just not into PvP period. It's high pressure, guild members have expectations and whatnot. And I can relate to that, even though ESO is the first MMO in 20 years of playing MMORPG's where I've decided not to PvP. Personally, I'm too old/experienced/whatever to care about gloating over someone because I had -at that time for whatever reason- better control over my character than my opponent. It has simply lost my interest. It happens.

On the other hand, I can also understand the thrill PvP players experience and seek.

But let me ask a similar question in return. I wonder why people decide to PvP in ESO. <snip>

Anyway, not everyone comes here to enjoy a competition. Some people simply want to relax and step away from real life for a while. That's why most of us play MMO's of course, but not everyone's desires are the same. There are a lot of RPG players who could just as easily be playing... idk Witcher 3 or Baldur's Gate 3. They are here for a story, not for competition. And that's something ESO does quite well.

Also, @Vulkunne does point out a good reason as well. And it's not that the game doesn't inform you of the option to PvP, it's that, as with everything else in ESO- the game doesn't teach you anything but how to put a skill on a skill bar. And PvP, being as competitive as it is, people just don't want to look like a fool coming there. And I don't blame them. Can they get themselves informed? Sure. It's nothing a few google searches won't cure. But if that's not why they are here, why should they bother? Keeping up with the current PvE meta and dummy scores so they one day may attempt a trial is enough work as it is without adding another playstyle to worry about.

It's not unlike these trading guilds with their high sales requirements and fees. Not everyone wants to spend their time doing trials and dungeons all the time just to be forced to make virtual currency. Some people just want to sell their drops and leave it at that. And that's fine too.

<snipped for Bashing/Conspiracy>

Tandor

You know, it is possible to avoid PvP because you don't like it, the whole concept pushed by PvPers of PvEers avoiding it because they're scared is nonsensical.

A lot of PvPers state quite openly on here that they only do PvE in ESO because they need to in order to get the right gear, but there's no suggestion that the real reason they don't like PvE is because they're scared of it!

kumenit_taeynav

the sheer size of cyrodiil has been a major factor as to why a few of my friends never touch pvp anymore. if you arent going in with a maxed out mount youre gonna have a bad time bc youre gonna be killed very frequently and the ride back to the fight takes so long. while theres no mechnical consequences to dying in cyrodiil such as your gear breaking or losing your alliance rank there is still that element of time investment. they spent a lot of time riding between targets with a group, died very quickly at the destination, then would usually have to complete the journey over again without making very much progress towards any pvp related quests. it was too much time spent riding compared to the rewards that were being offered so many of my friends just straight up avoid pvp at all costs

Neiska

I play the game to unwind and enjoy adventures, not to engage in a high stress activity that is rarely fair. I have never PVP'd in ESO and I don't think I ever will. I would rather go fishing or work on scrying than do any form of PVP. Even if all the other person did was stand there and let me whack them, I would still be disinterested.

Not everyone plays the game to "win" something. Some of us enjoy the journey and the world. The lore and characters. Collecting things, making the perfect house, or enjoying a storyline I particularly enjoyed.

If I was "forced" to pvp, as in, I had no "choice" and was obligated to do it, then I would log out and play something else. Words really fail me as to explain how much I dislike and loathe pvp, and I pretty much refuse to participate. I bare no ill will against those who enjoy pvp. I hope they find what they are looking for and enjoy it, truly. Thats just one part of games that I find completely un-fun.

Aurielle

Veryamedliel wrote: »

First, ZoS clearly never gave a flying monkey about PvP, other than offering the option. 3 battlegrounds maps and 2 'open world maps' in 10 years of existing? That alone says ZoS doesn't care even a little bit about PvP players. What makes people think this is a good game to PvP in?

Huh? ESO was developed by some of the folks who worked on DAoC (an older tri-faction PVP-heavy MMO, if you’re unfamiliar). PVP was a core part of ESO’s design, and the devs hyped it up significantly around release. The problem is that the devs tried to recreate DAoC’s PVP system within the Elder Scrolls franchise, and I guess they underestimated how many Elder Scrolls fans just wanted “Skyrim or Oblivion with friends.” ZOS gave MANY “flying monkeys” about PVP — a lot of the players didn’t, and they shifted focus accordingly.

Those of us who enjoy PVP in ESO have enjoyed it in other games, like DAoC. Cyrodiil was amazing, especially in the early days when the population caps were higher and performance was better. It’s still fun today, IMO, and I still engage in it, but it’s a shadow of its former self. I wish it was like it was in the old days, when the pop cap was 600 per faction.

DigiAngel

• It's not fun dying
• It's (usually) not fun if you're not in a group
• PVE'rs aren't usually spec'd for burst and heal
• PVE'rs aren't usually geared for it

Shara_Wynn

I get enough stress at my job so I simply don't need it when I get home by logging into a game to be killed over and over again.

I think if you are good at PVP'ing then you are going to like it. But if you are not, then you are not going to like it.

I am no stranger to PVP either, after EQ I played games like AC (on Darktide server because my EQ guildies wanted to try PVP and it was a nightmare), DAoC and WOW and I never did like the PVP aspect of those games. It is just not for me.

Veryamedliel

Aurielle wrote: »

Huh? ESO was developed by some of the folks who worked on DAoC (an older tri-faction PVP-heavy MMO, if you’re unfamiliar).

I don't see the relevance. There are also people that used to work on ESO and now work on Starfield. That has no PVP element. So why is this relevant?

Aurielle wrote: »

PVP was a core part of ESO’s design, and the devs hyped it up significantly around release. The problem is that the devs tried to recreate DAoC’s PVP system within the Elder Scrolls franchise, and I guess they underestimated how many Elder Scrolls fans just wanted “Skyrim or Oblivion with friends.” ZOS gave MANY “flying monkeys” about PVP — a lot of the players didn’t, and they shifted focus accordingly.

That merely shows how bad their research was before they designed ESO, but that's all water under the bridge now. Even so, what has ESO done for PvP since except keeping it alive and ruining gear sets that should have been fun to experiment with? Nothing, zilch, nada. And I honestly don't blame them. As you say, this game is more designed as a what you call “Skyrim or Oblivion with friends” game, which obviously attracts the RPG crowd much more than it should attract any PvP crowd. It's no surprise there's little interest in PvP. It's not what people want, expect or care about. Yet you are all still here.

Aurielle wrote: »

Those of us who enjoy PVP in ESO have enjoyed it in other games, like DAoC. Cyrodiil was amazing, especially in the early days when the population caps were higher and performance was better. It’s still fun today, IMO, and I still engage in it, but it’s a shadow of its former self. I wish it was like it was in the old days, when the pop cap was 600 per faction.

I'm glad you are still enjoying it for what it's worth. I have no hatred of any kind towards PvP personally. I've been on both sides of the fence and can appreciate both to some extend. But you have to admit it's kinda weird that the PvP crowd is still here when it's clearly not getting the love and attention it needs if it wants to be successful, isn't it?

And this is exactly why I returned the question in the first place. It's not about fear of either PvP or PvE. It's just that rarely the 2 work well in the same game and get cared for equally. Why stay if the game clearly does not and probably never will make serious improvements towards PvP other than keeping it playable? Again, I understand ESO's decision, but why to people stick around and -almost- demand improvements when they are (or should be) fully aware their chances are about as high as the chances of ZoS introducing class change tokens?
Surely there are better games where the PvP folks are more welcome and more catered to? It's not that I want you gone or anything. To each his/her own. I'm just wondering what makes people stay to play something that's clearly not valued or cared for enough by the publisher.

Janni

So I get a lot of people don't care for pvp. That's fine. But I do find it a bit odd that some people like to say they find it high stakes or stressful or not relaxing. Honestly, I like to just put on some good music and vibe along with the situations as they come. I won't say it's *always* stress free but a lot of the time i'm kinda just chilling as i help my teammates out in some big fights. I'm willing to bet i'm not unusual in this regard. Probably most pvpers are so accustomed to it that they just sort of zone out and vibe with the fights as they come. And just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it can't also be fun or relaxing. I spend a lot of time during my day at work doing challenging stuff but honestly i find most of it to be the best part of the day and its pretty easy to get in the zone and just chill while working. It's the meetings where i sit around waiting for everyone to talk about stuff that has nothing to do with anyone else's work and then its my turn to talk about my thing that will inevitably bore someone else to sleep that is the most stressful to me hahaha

Four_Fingers

If you die in PvP I promise you won't feel a thing, heck in this game you don't even loose a thing not even armor damage.
After you accept your avatar is going to die once in a while you might even find you enjoy learning why and the first time you win a fight, I bet you get hooked.
Remember you aren't really killing anyone; it is just pixels.

moo_2021

Veryamedliel wrote: »

I can think of at least 5 games (including MMO's) where PvP is better managed than ZoS ever will for ESO. It's not that I blame ZoS for that. They are much better at telling stories. Why bother if there's so much better to be had for PvP players?

Do they have animation cancellation? Also the automatic attack thing in old MMO just doesn't feel right.

and controller support. If I want to fight with kb mouse in front of monitor, I'd go playing fps

and there is a bare minimum standard for world content, which unfortunately most can't meet. No voice from NPC talking? I'm out.

Shara_Wynn

Janni wrote: »

So I get a lot of people don't care for pvp. That's fine. But I do find it a bit odd that some people like to say they find it high stakes or stressful or not relaxing. Honestly, I like to just put on some good music and vibe along with the situations as they come. I won't say it's *always* stress free but a lot of the time i'm kinda just chilling as i help my teammates out in some big fights. I'm willing to bet i'm not unusual in this regard. Probably most pvpers are so accustomed to it that they just sort of zone out and vibe with the fights as they come. And just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it can't also be fun or relaxing. I spend a lot of time during my day at work doing challenging stuff but honestly i find most of it to be the best part of the day and its pretty easy to get in the zone and just chill while working. It's the meetings where i sit around waiting for everyone to talk about stuff that has nothing to do with anyone else's work and then its my turn to talk about my thing that will inevitably bore someone else to sleep that is the most stressful to me hahaha

I spend all day at work doing challenging, stressful things. That is my limit for the day. My brain is quite literally 'frazzled' by the end of my shift. I am often goo goo gaa gaa and can barely even function enough to do my daily crafting writs and endeavors sometimes. As for stress hormones, there is only so much I can take in a 24 hour period.

So for me it is a no I really don't need anymore 'challenge' for that day. I love my job, but boy is it all encompassing.

Also not everyone likes the same things. If you like something, you will enjoy doing it. If you don't, then you won't.

Wise_Will

I am a PVE'r and only go into Cyro for PvE related things, however on the occasion i see people trying to kill me, you bet i go for the kill! i find it thrilling and i do not care if i die as i am in a PvP zone.

I remember my first ever PvP kill, i was going for a skyshard via the tunnel under the mountain and i met someone else there, we both froze, i was panicing, then we started to fight, it was intense and difficult but i won! i cant tell you how proud it made me lol after that i looked forward to PvP encounters whilst doing PvE stuff in Cyro.

My advice for PvE'rs who don't like PvP, JUST FIGHT BACK! you never know, you may actually get the kill and experience the joy of it, else you will die and just have to run back which is not a big deal.

Akynathos

I, as a mostly PvEer, never had a problem hopping into PvP in games where you can just hop into PvP and actually do anything worth a damn (example: GW2).

ESO is not that game.

Endeavour-wise:
If I "want" to engage in PvP as a PvEer without being an absolute free-kill I need to research an prepare a build and then get the gear and consumables.
If I "want" to engage in PvE as a PvPer, even stuff like "do X trials" and "do X dungeons" I can just do that because they are trivial enough to not need a dedicated PvE setup.

And that's all the difference for me.

BlueRaven

There is a dramatic, almost ludicrous difference, between top end players and the bread and butter casual player in eso. It’s not fun to go in a PvP environment when it feels like there is little chance of surviving at any enemy player encounter.
And if the player wants to read a book, talk to an npc, or even just sight see, well it’s also not fun having to have your guard up all the time.

CameraBeardThePirate

The number one piece of advice I can give is as follows:

Dying doesn't matter. Seriously, who cares? If you die, you respawn. You don't need to build an omega tank just to never die because you won't be contributing anything to your team/alliance. You don't need to get upset at people bagging you because the people bagging you are just wasting their own time trying to get a response out of you.

Don't get upset if you die. Just think about what you could have done to avoid it.

Aurielle

Veryamedliel wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Huh? ESO was developed by some of the folks who worked on DAoC (an older tri-faction PVP-heavy MMO, if you’re unfamiliar).

I don't see the relevance. There are also people that used to work on ESO and now work on Starfield. That has no PVP element. So why is this relevant?

Aurielle wrote: »

PVP was a core part of ESO’s design, and the devs hyped it up significantly around release. The problem is that the devs tried to recreate DAoC’s PVP system within the Elder Scrolls franchise, and I guess they underestimated how many Elder Scrolls fans just wanted “Skyrim or Oblivion with friends.” ZOS gave MANY “flying monkeys” about PVP — a lot of the players didn’t, and they shifted focus accordingly.

That merely shows how bad their research was before they designed ESO, but that's all water under the bridge now. Even so, what has ESO done for PvP since except keeping it alive and ruining gear sets that should have been fun to experiment with? Nothing, zilch, nada. And I honestly don't blame them. As you say, this game is more designed as a what you call “Skyrim or Oblivion with friends” game, which obviously attracts the RPG crowd much more than it should attract any PvP crowd. It's no surprise there's little interest in PvP. It's not what people want, expect or care about. Yet you are all still here.

Aurielle wrote: »

Those of us who enjoy PVP in ESO have enjoyed it in other games, like DAoC. Cyrodiil was amazing, especially in the early days when the population caps were higher and performance was better. It’s still fun today, IMO, and I still engage in it, but it’s a shadow of its former self. I wish it was like it was in the old days, when the pop cap was 600 per faction.

I'm glad you are still enjoying it for what it's worth. I have no hatred of any kind towards PvP personally. I've been on both sides of the fence and can appreciate both to some extend. But you have to admit it's kinda weird that the PvP crowd is still here when it's clearly not getting the love and attention it needs if it wants to be successful, isn't it?

And this is exactly why I returned the question in the first place. It's not about fear of either PvP or PvE. It's just that rarely the 2 work well in the same game and get cared for equally. Why stay if the game clearly does not and probably never will make serious improvements towards PvP other than keeping it playable? Again, I understand ESO's decision, but why to people stick around and -almost- demand improvements when they are (or should be) fully aware their chances are about as high as the chances of ZoS introducing class change tokens?
Surely there are better games where the PvP folks are more welcome and more catered to? It's not that I want you gone or anything. To each his/her own. I'm just wondering what makes people stay to play something that's clearly not valued or cared for enough by the publisher.

The DAoC connection is relevant because ESO’s PVP is heavily inspired by it. Fans of DAoC/PVP were excited pre-release when they saw Matt Firor was working on ESO, because of that connection. Read this old article for example: https://www.gameskinny.com/culture/elder-scrolls-online-and-the-legacy-of-daoc/

As for why we stay and continue to play in Cyrodiil despite the neglect… because it’s still fun? Because our friends still play in Cyrodiil? Why is this such a mystery to you? If I want to enjoy a PVP environment like ESO’s, I have to go back to playing DAoC. I prefer ESO’s graphics and lore, and I don’t know anyone who still plays DAoC. I also prefer ESO’s main quests and dungeons as well. There’s nothing wrong at all with us continuing to stick around here (and there’s also nothing wrong with us asking for stuff either).

Aurielle

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Janni wrote: »

So I get a lot of people don't care for pvp. That's fine. But I do find it a bit odd that some people like to say they find it high stakes or stressful or not relaxing. Honestly, I like to just put on some good music and vibe along with the situations as they come. I won't say it's *always* stress free but a lot of the time i'm kinda just chilling as i help my teammates out in some big fights. I'm willing to bet i'm not unusual in this regard. Probably most pvpers are so accustomed to it that they just sort of zone out and vibe with the fights as they come. And just because something is a challenge doesn't mean it can't also be fun or relaxing. I spend a lot of time during my day at work doing challenging stuff but honestly i find most of it to be the best part of the day and its pretty easy to get in the zone and just chill while working. It's the meetings where i sit around waiting for everyone to talk about stuff that has nothing to do with anyone else's work and then its my turn to talk about my thing that will inevitably bore someone else to sleep that is the most stressful to me hahaha

I spend all day at work doing challenging, stressful things. That is my limit for the day. My brain is quite literally 'frazzled' by the end of my shift. I am often goo goo gaa gaa and can barely even function enough to do my daily crafting writs and endeavors sometimes. As for stress hormones, there is only so much I can take in a 24 hour period.

So for me it is a no I really don't need anymore 'challenge' for that day. I love my job, but boy is it all encompassing.

Also not everyone likes the same things. If you like something, you will enjoy doing it. If you don't, then you won't.

I get the sense that we have the same (or similar) high stress job… I personally like to vent my acute care-related frustrations at the end of a long day by gating those pesky blues and yellows and keeping my allies alive in the process. (At least my teammates actually appreciate the hard work and care I put into keeping ’em alive and don’t try to throw virtual IV poles at me or anything like that).

Adremal

I have DAoC as a benchmark. I can't force myself into Cyro and pretend it's up to those standards because it simply isn't. I'm not terrified by it, I'm horrified by it, despite having a couple of PvP toons.

Aurielle wrote: »

The DAoC connection is relevant because ESO’s PVP is heavily inspired by it.

Pity that inspiration alone isn't quite sufficient to make something work, otherwise I'd be spending all of my ESO playtime in Cyro.I also remember that enthusiasm dying off real quick at launch. DAoC players mostly looked at Rift and Warhammer online in search of a spiritual successor. That didn't happen either but both games had a distinctive DAoC feel to them due to the combat systems. ESO's combat system on the other hand is not at all compatible with a DAoC-like RvR playstyle. But I digress, my point being that ESO's PvP environment and DAoC are nothing alike, except for the foundational concept of having keeps to capture and relics to steal in a XvXvX setting. Foundations alone do not result in the same building.

Aurielle

Adremal wrote: »

I have DAoC as a benchmark. I can't force myself into Cyro and pretend it's up to those standards because it simply isn't. I'm not terrified by it, I'm horrified by it, despite having a couple of PvP toons.

Aurielle wrote: »

The DAoC connection is relevant because ESO’s PVP is heavily inspired by it.

Pity that inspiration alone isn't quite sufficient to make something work, otherwise I'd be spending all of my ESO playtime in Cyro.I also remember that enthusiasm dying off real quick at launch. DAoC players mostly looked at Rift and Warhammer online in search of a spiritual successor. That didn't happen either but both games had a distinctive DAoC feel to them due to the combat systems. ESO's combat system on the other hand is not at all compatible with a DAoC-like RvR playstyle. But I digress, my point being that ESO's PvP environment and DAoC are nothing alike, except for the foundational concept of having keeps to capture and relics to steal in a XvXvX setting. Foundations alone do not result in the same building.

I agree with that if we’re talking about Cyrodiil today (Cyrodiil in ESO’s early days was a different story). The dramatic cuts to the population caps have changed things dramatically in Cyrodiil over the years, and it doesn’t feel at all like it did initially. I still manage to have fun, though, in spite of it all. I just love AvAvA siege warfare PVP, and love taking/defending keeps. I haven’t found any other modern games I like that fall into that category, so ESO it is.

Edit: as for combat systems, sure, ESO and DAoC (or any other MMO, for that matter) are completely unalike. I didn’t and still don’t see that as a problem, though. By the time ESO came along, I was pretty tired of traditional MMO combat.

Remathilis

For most, I think it's the fact PVP has no learning curve.

Imagine you just hit level 50. Congratulations. Now all content is veteran hard modes. All the gear you know about is inadequate, all the skills you took don't work, all the strategies you have learned no longer function. You're playing a whole different game with the same mechanics. There is no smooth on ramp. No place to matchmake with others who are your own skill level. No one to teach you the meta except online guides. There is no PVP skill guide in game and the Cyrodiil tutorial is woefully inadequate at explaining how to fight other players.

Most players in other content get to ease into content with simple content that gets harder. Normal dungeons and trials become vet and then HM. Tribute players can practice against NPCs. PVP is being thrown into the ocean and told to swim. The only content I feel is similar is Infinite Archive, because after the first Tho'at fight, the IA ramps quickly to brutal hard. Even so, the first arc is usually good at teaching what to expect later

I don't know how you fix that, but the fact that pvp is basically a second game with no on-ramp and little guidance is why so many people avoid it like the plaguebreaker.

Xandreia_

honestly the entitlement of some of the community during the pvp events is really annoying. PVP'ers get 2 events a year (if they aren't cancelled or delayed) and yet every single event forums get filled with so much hate towards PVP, every year PVP players are forced to do PVE if they want tickets, but twice a year for a max 2 weeks at a time the entitlement from a huge portion of the games community is overwhelming. yet for the other events during the year not a single PVP player cries about having to do a few quests... blows my mind!

AcadianPaladin

In my case, I'm not terrified at all. I simply don't enjoy pvp - and I only play stuff I enjoy. I don't care about loot or enticements but only whether I enjoy it. I've had 7 decades of life and over 2 decades of gaming so I'm very secure in knowing what I like. There's a long list of activities in ESO I don't enjoy so I don't do. Happily, the list of things in ESO I do enjoy is even longer so it works out well.