They are weak, they need buff

VinnyGambini

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

TechMaybeHic

I don't do BGs so maybe I'm off, but looks like a pre-made death matching and ignoring objectives

DrNukenstein

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I don't do BGs so maybe I'm off, but looks like a pre-made death matching and ignoring objectives

Yo if this really is a regulars lobby, a 4 stack playing against solos doesn't get blow outs like that.

But you will see sorcs playing off the walls all the time, even (and especially) in the regulars lobbies.

On PCNA, it's nothing new that there are some sorcs that will dumpster lobbies full of regulars.

I've never seen one score like that outside of under 50's. That sorc probably is really that good, and yes that is why that class needs to be buffed very sparingly. or better yet, just never buff it. It's already the perfect class for 240 apm mega sweats to flex on lazier gamers playing generally easier classes.

*edit: judging by the warden that went 0/12 this was most likely not a 4man. OP, was this based out sorc playing with their team or were they just kind of streaking around chasing and exploding anyone that dares to exist in their presence?

Galeriano

This is not a top tier battleground on PC EU. Not all people there are good players and some of them are using setups that I wouldn't call optimised.

No offense to anyone but as someone who plays on PC EU and knows almost all of the players in that match in all honesty I can say that red team was leagues above two other teams in terms of average skill level and group composition.

If sorc would be OP on his own than record of deaths in that match wouldn't also belong to a sorc. When people talk about sorc being weak and needing a buff they usually reffer to a magsorc and that player with 38/0 was a stamsorc which is actually known to be a decent BG setup atm while the player itself is also known to be good in what he's doing.

And @VinnyGambini I see You were on tempplar so it's kinda irony to complain about stamsorc when templar is one of the best counters to stamsorcs in BGs.

xylena_lazarow

This looks like 3 stronger players coincidentally on the same team, and a whole bunch of less strong players.

Brakkish

Too bad that particular sorc is on PC; I'd love to encounter this build and test it out.

You said top tier BG; how did you determine that? Reason I'm asking is I know my MMR is high, but recently (last few weeks) I'm seeing pvp rank 10's, 15's etc mixed in with us vets (video). Most are getting absolutely destroyed (not necessarily by me), almost vaporized as a result. Whenever I encounter these newer players, I usually just help them get some practice in, rather than outright seeking to destroy them. Goal is to have them come back for more, not to entirely sour the experience for them. I can imagine the frustration for those who spend more time in the respawn than on the battlefield.

Back to the pic:

It's probably a buffet of reasons why you're seeing this; one of which might be low rank newbies just trying to get the objective done while a few kill counters are pretending it's Deathmatch and not Capture the Relic (seen in the pic).

Aznox

This was a solo queue BG, and while it was near prime time at high MMR, I wouldn't call that lobby "top tier".

I was roaming around away from my team, which is only possible when there isn't an equally strong sorc or a full damage arcanist/DK Orc+RaT chasing me into oblivion.

I do agree though that sorc can be exceptionally strong in BG and that it got me a few 30+/0 in the past few days.

SkaraMinoc

Galeriano wrote: »

that player with 38/0 was a stamsorc which is actually known to be a decent BG setup atm

Stam Sorc is S-tier in battlegrounds. It's not uncommon for the best Stam Sorcs to get 30-40 kills.

Galeriano

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This looks like 3 stronger players coincidentally on the same team, and a whole bunch of less strong players.

That's excatly what it was.

moo_2021

VinnyGambini wrote: »

Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

a non-pet burst heal would be nice. Using a dumb creature for lifeline is too risky.

Galeriano

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Galeriano wrote: »

that player with 38/0 was a stamsorc which is actually known to be a decent BG setup atm

Stam Sorc is S-tier in battlegrounds. It's not uncommon for the best Stam Sorcs to get 30-40 kills.

It cartainly can be but it have quite high skill requirement for that. This is why despite stamsorc's potential strenght You don't see that many people being actually very succesfull with it and You don't see abundace of people playing stamsorcs in general.

Many people tries to play it but most fails and goes backs to other setups, only few people per server is actually capable to pull of that 30+ kills matches on sorc.

TechMaybeHic

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

This looks like 3 stronger players coincidentally on the same team, and a whole bunch of less strong players.

Yeah, thats what I was getting at. Thought maybe the 0 k 12 D was a warden healer or something that just didnt fight

GrigorijMalahevich

Aznox wrote: »

This was a solo queue BG, and while it was near prime time at high MMR, I wouldn't call that lobby "top tier".

I was roaming around away from my team, which is only possible when there isn't an equally strong sorc or a full damage arcanist/DK Orc+RaT chasing me into oblivion.

I do agree though that sorc can be exceptionally strong in BG and that it got me a few 30+/0 in the past few days.

stop cheating bro

GrigorijMalahevich

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

buzzclops

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

I see this “high mmr bgs” thrown left and right.
Seems 90% of players say they play high mmr.
Realistically, High mmr equals to probably 20% of the lobbies.
Y’all can do the math.

Would love to have a ranked mode in eso. Probably never going to happen tho. :’(

*Edit: we NEED a ranked mode in eso

Jierdanit

buzzclops wrote: »

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

I see this “high mmr bgs” thrown left and right.
Seems 90% of players say they play high mmr.
Realistically, High mmr equals to probably 20% of the lobbies.
Y’all can do the math.

Would love to have a ranked mode in eso. Probably never going to happen tho. :’(

*Edit: we NEED a ranked mode in eso

Most people who play BGs regularly can probably say that theyre in high MMR, because the playerbase for BGs is getting pretty small.

If you play BGs regularly for a few weeks youre very likely to start seeing basically all the same people in 90% of your BGs.

JanTanhide

I'm not sure but does this violate TOS? Discussing players specifically by name on the Forum?

TechMaybeHic

JanTanhide wrote: »

I'm not sure but does this violate TOS? Discussing players specifically by name on the Forum?

I guess by the letter; but the player in question commented and doesn't seem to mind. It's not really shaming to say someone did too good

Galeriano

buzzclops wrote: »

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

I see this “high mmr bgs” thrown left and right.
Seems 90% of players say they play high mmr.
Realistically, High mmr equals to probably 20% of the lobbies.
Y’all can do the math.

Would love to have a ranked mode in eso. Probably never going to happen tho. :’(

*Edit: we NEED a ranked mode in eso

OP was not even claiming it was high MMR BG he was claiming quote "all good players, no noobs, no bad gear" which is actually stronger claim than just high MMR where everyone can get at some point just through playing enough BGs.

olsborg

Stamsorc and magsorc are two very different powerlevels atm, dont compare them as one class pls.

VinnyGambini

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

1. I agree my team was kinda trash.
2. I agree that he is very good player - maybe better than me

2 above statements doesn't change fact that sorcerer is S tier, and buffs are big mistake. Can you show me bg with templar or necro archiving 40 kills? I don't really think so.

Galeriano

VinnyGambini wrote: »

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

1. I agree my team was kinda trash.
2. I agree that he is very good player - maybe better than me

2 above statements doesn't change fact that sorcerer is S tier, and buffs are big mistake. Can you show me bg with templar or necro archiving 40 kills? I don't really think so.

Only stam sorc can be S tier and only in hands of very experienced player. Saying that sorc just "is S tier" is kinda out of context and slightly misleading. Also I would realistically put experienced stamsorc player in BGs at either A+ or S- tier because class's natural drawbacks can sometimes blow up in his face pretty badly.

Also since You asked





All screenshots are from max lv BGs in U40. I could post more including necro getting 40+ kills but I havn't been doing BGs on necro in U40 and I started to use addon improving BG UI not that long ago so screenshots would not have classes shown. I also had plenty of 30+ kills BGs on that templar. Oh and there was 3 sorcs in enemy teams in that 43/0 match.

Aznox

Solo BG tiers (non-healer, non-premade) at high level :

Arcanist > Sorc / DK > NB > Warden / Templar > Necro

edit : joke, I have no idea

Rhaegar75

Galeriano wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »

VinnyGambini wrote: »

This is top tier battlegrounds PC EU (all good players, no noobs, no bad gear):



He's uncatchable, deals INSANE dmg, breaks every record. Yeah this class seriously need buff. Nerf necro and templar instead.

Personally I think even NB is not as strong. UNFAIR.

has it ever crossed your mind that this Azznox guy is just a lot better than you? He has played (probably) one hundred times more BGs than you, has tons more experience than you, knows his class a lot better than you, has a lot better build (due to pure experience) than you and yet you think you should be able to compete with someone who has invested a lot more time than you?

Nah mate, chill

1. I agree my team was kinda trash.
2. I agree that he is very good player - maybe better than me

2 above statements doesn't change fact that sorcerer is S tier, and buffs are big mistake. Can you show me bg with templar or necro archiving 40 kills? I don't really think so.

Only stam sorc can be S tier and only in hands of very experienced player. Saying that sorc just "is S tier" is kinda out of context. Also I would realistically put experienced stamsorc player in BGs at either A+ or S- tier because class's natural drawbacks can sometimes blow up in his face pretty badly.

Also since You asked





All screenshots are from max lv BGs in U40. I could post more including necro getting 40+ kills but I havn't been doing BGs on necro in U40 and I started to use addon improving BG UI not that long ago so screenshots would not have classes shown. I also had plenty of 30+ kills BGs on that templar. Oh and there was 3 sorcs in enemy teams in that 43/0 match.

I truly agree that a stamsorcs, even better a proc sorc, can be S tier but indeed only in the right hands.

70% of the stamsorcs out there are average players that try, unsuccessfully, to copy builds created by try-hard players.

The result is often mediocre.

However, when you get a good stamsorc prancing about right and left, staying alive can be really hard……they are my bane unless I’m playing a plar.

I have a feeling that @Aznox is actually a very competent player hence his numbers

jerj6925

If there is one thing I have learned after 30 years of gamming, if it seems too good to be true then it's too good to be true. The combat system in this game is hugely flawed and greatly rewards players for exploiting it. Whenever I hear or read someone say something along the lines of cheating does not happen or that player was just better than you, it's almost always a lie and the typical response to maintain a narrative that cheating is not or does not happen and its usually by people doing the cheating.

The combat system in this game would need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to prevent things like animation canceling and negating the benefits of using programable devices but I don't see Microsoft investing that kind of money and or resources in to that any time soon especially with the economy as trash as it is.

Sorry to say, you either take the plunge and fight fire with fire or go elsewhere...

Major_Toughness

Aznox wrote: »

Solo BG tiers (non-healer, non-premade) at high level :

Arcanist > Sorc / DK > NB > Warden / Templar > Necro

edit : joke, I have no idea

Yet you nailed it. And I know you don't even play much nowadays. Middle tier is subjective but for me it would be NB > Warden > DK.

Not a lot between those though.

Galeriano

jerj6925 wrote: »

If there is one thing I have learned after 30 years of gamming, if it seems too good to be true then it's too good to be true. The combat system in this game is hugely flawed and greatly rewards players for exploiting it. Whenever I hear or read someone say something along the lines of cheating does not happen or that player was just better than you, it's almost always a lie and the typical response to maintain a narrative that cheating is not or does not happen and its usually by people doing the cheating.

The combat system in this game would need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to prevent things like animation canceling and negating the benefits of using programable devices but I don't see Microsoft investing that kind of money and or resources in to that any time soon especially with the economy as trash as it is.

Sorry to say, you either take the plunge and fight fire with fire or go elsewhere...

Have You ever considered that maybe, just maybe more skilled players are actually just outplaying less skilled ones? Does this idea really sound that extravagant? It's not like this is not happening in other games so it would be kinda wierd if it could happen everywhere else but not in ESO.

Also animation cancelling these days is basically limited to light attack and bash weaving which tbh is debatable wheter or not it can be even called an animation cancelling. Programmable devices that make people great at PvP is more of a fairytale rather than a real thing. With how dynamic PvP is having preprogramed macro would be actually a drawback rather than a improvement. I remember a silly situation once when some player asked me what macro I am using because the one he is using must be weaker since I was winning with him easily. News flash I was not using a macro.

People like to explain their failure in any possible way some will just see cheating everywhere. There are people in this game that literally report multiple players per day. Just yesterday I was reported by someone from zerg that was chasing me around keep walls because according to him I teleported through a wall in a wierd way. I was using psijic ult to get to a highground and when I told him this he said that he knows perfectly how psijic ult looks like, that it wasn't it, that he made a video, analyzed it and send it to the ZoS.

And similar things are happening on a daily/weekly basis. I get plenty of dms that I am cheating or that I got reported so I assume there is even more tickets send on me that I don't know of. And I never was banned for cheating during 10 years of playing ESO. And there is plenty of people like me in ESO who are notoriously accused of cheating yet somehow we never got banned.

Rhaegar75

Galeriano wrote: »

jerj6925 wrote: »

If there is one thing I have learned after 30 years of gamming, if it seems too good to be true then it's too good to be true. The combat system in this game is hugely flawed and greatly rewards players for exploiting it. Whenever I hear or read someone say something along the lines of cheating does not happen or that player was just better than you, it's almost always a lie and the typical response to maintain a narrative that cheating is not or does not happen and its usually by people doing the cheating.

The combat system in this game would need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to prevent things like animation canceling and negating the benefits of using programable devices but I don't see Microsoft investing that kind of money and or resources in to that any time soon especially with the economy as trash as it is.

Sorry to say, you either take the plunge and fight fire with fire or go elsewhere...

Have You ever considered that maybe, just maybe more skilled players are actually just outplaying less skilled ones? Does this idea really sound that extravagant? It's not like this is not happening in other games so it would be kinda wierd if it could happen everywhere else but not in ESO.

Also animation cancelling these days is basically limited to light attack and bash weaving which tbh is debatable wheter or not it can be even called an animation cancelling. Programmable devices that make people great at PvP is more of a fairytale rather than a real thing. With how dynamic PvP is having preprogramed macro would be actually a drawback rather than a improvement. I remember a silly situation once when some player asked me what macro I am using because the one he is using must be weaker since I was winning with him easily. News flash I was not using a macro.

People like to explain their failure in any possible way some will just see cheating everywhere. There are people in this game that literally report multiple players per day. Just yesterday I was reported by someone from zerg that was chasing me around keep walls because according to him I teleported through a wall in a wierd way. I was using psijic ult to get to a highground and when I told him this he said that he knows perfectly how psijic ult looks like, that it wasn't it, that he made a video, analyzed it and send it to the ZoS.

And similar things are happening on a daily/weekly basis. I get plenty of dms that I am cheating or that I got reported so I assume there is even more tickets send on me that I don't know of. And I never was banned for cheating during 10 years of playing ESO. And there is plenty of people like me in ESO who are notoriously accused of cheating yet somehow we never got banned.

I truly agree with you. I've played ESO on and off since the beginning and I can't say I've come across any major cheating evidence...if you stumble upon some you'll see it straight away: it's super obvious.

Some players are simply better and they will outperform any average player anytime. In the high MMR bracket you will be placed against content creators and streamers who may play in a day the same amount of hours I play in 2 weeks. Of course they are going to be better: more training, more knowledge etc.

I like some of them (e.g. Decimus is the best - great theory crafter) and utterly dislike others but I can definitely tell you that they are not cheating: they are simply far better than the average player

Jierdanit

jerj6925 wrote: »

If there is one thing I have learned after 30 years of gamming, if it seems too good to be true then it's too good to be true. The combat system in this game is hugely flawed and greatly rewards players for exploiting it. Whenever I hear or read someone say something along the lines of cheating does not happen or that player was just better than you, it's almost always a lie and the typical response to maintain a narrative that cheating is not or does not happen and its usually by people doing the cheating.

The combat system in this game would need to be completely rebuilt from the ground up to prevent things like animation canceling and negating the benefits of using programable devices but I don't see Microsoft investing that kind of money and or resources in to that any time soon especially with the economy as trash as it is.

Sorry to say, you either take the plunge and fight fire with fire or go elsewhere...

As someone who gets accused of cheating almost daily i have a hard time believing people who claim that others are cheating.

Because in probably 95% of cases they would know that you're not cheating if they simply knew basic game mechanics.

The other 5% can usually be explained through bugs or desyncs.

There is a reason that most people who are actually good at the game basically never accuse others of cheating.

the1andonlyskwex

ESO has a lot of cheating allegations in part because the difference between a really good build and a mediocre one is so huge. There's a point in the MMR tiers where it's easy to suddenly transition from holding your own to getting one-shotted. The sudden shift makes it really hard for newer players to recognize the difference between someone who's cheating and someone who's just better.

Similarly, even a bad class with a great build (and the skill to go with it) can crush a good class with a mediocre one, which I think is part of what happened to the OP. Also, "much better than the C tier classes" isn't necessarily the same as "S tier".

xylena_lazarow

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

The sudden shift makes it really hard for newer players to recognize the difference between someone who's cheating and someone who's just better.

Agree on the sudden shift and the lack of preparation this game gives newer players, but immediately jumping to the conclusion of "cheating" is ridiculous in any context. Too many players can't handle losing.