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Balancing pve with pve

ClowdyAllDay
ClowdyAllDay
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Yes that's right, pve is out of balance with pve and the symptoms that this is so are many. Just read through the topics of general discussion and you will see this is so. People c/o overland content too easy and of speed runners in random dungeons, just to name a couple. Clearly what the fault, at least in part, is that people are using trial gear in places other than trials and then soon find themselves bored so they do things like speed run and complain about overland content being too easy. So with that being said the next comment seems obvious: disable trial gear for any use outside of trials. That means trial gear for trials only. No pvp use, no random dungeon use, no overland content use. Lets do that for a while and see how that benefits game play. My bet is that people with trial gear will try to shut down this thread by accusing me falsely of baiting. And that if it is ever implemented, everyone will be better off despite the griping that is certain to ensue. Lets try it for 6 months and then re-evalute how it's been. TY and have a pleasant day! <3
  • Ph1p
    Ph1p
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    Disable trial gear for any use outside of trials. That means trial gear for trials only. No pvp use, no random dungeon use, no overland content use. Lets do that for a while and see how that benefits game play. My bet is that people with trial gear will try to shut down this thread by accusing me falsely of baiting.

    Since there are many other sets that are on par with trial ones, this will accomplish nothing. Even if you limit everyone to crafted and zone sets, it won't stop people from speedrunning RNDs or finding overland content easy. And the (justified) griping you'll hear is because it complicates gear and inventory management for no benefit whatsoever.
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    I have side characters who don't even have a complete set, but just wear what they find along the way (purposely - I play them as adventurers who just use what they find), but even for them, overland is no problem at all, even soloing some world bosses.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • Sakiri
    Sakiri
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    I've tried to run slower for people that are doing the quest. They just charged on ahead so my tank buddy says, they want a speed run? Fine. He runs straight into the boss and the lowbies die because they decided to hit the things he'd shot ice at once.

    They stopped acting stupid right quick.
  • katanagirl1
    katanagirl1
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    I use trial gear on one of my toons for overland stuff, I don’t complain it’s too easy. I enjoy getting a break for solo stuff. I can’t keep up trial-level combat all day long.
    Khajiit Stamblade
    Dark Elf Magsorc
    Redguard Stamina Dragonknight
    Orc Stamplar PVP
    Breton Magsorc PVP

    PS5 NA

  • Artim_X
    Artim_X
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    Nah that wouldn't help at all. Gear can only take you so far. Speed runners in a dungeon is a communication issue/too scared to initiate a kick when communication fails.

    Overland content is the content that most players will engage with and shouldn't be a chore to clear when you're already at endgame.

    There is so many ways to make your character strong without even touching generic overland gear. You can't really say that disabling one specific type of gear would have any effect on overland difficult when someone can simply use something else.
    (AD) Artim X/Xirtām/Måtrix |PC/NA| Casual staff wielding vampire sorcerer/templar/arcanist
    Electric-Burn/Stun
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Av0zcKH3i2BkaY1GXW/giphy.gif/https://c.tenor.com/jQHdFftrgwMAAAAC/tenor.gif
    • Damage Dealing Build.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Inferno/Lightning Staff (infused/shock enchant), and Rage of the Ursauk jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused/flame/weapon damage enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Boundless Storm, Mages' Wrath, Lightning Flood, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build), and Power Overload.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Crushing Shock/Storm Pulsar, Streak, Flame/Shock Reach, Unstable Wall of Fire/Storms, Twilight Tormentor (Twilight Matriarch for solo roleplay variant of build) and Fiery/Thunderous Rage.
    Electric-Heal
    https://media.giphy.com/media/5ibGIHneWS6ek/giphy.gif
    • My Healer Build.
    • Gear: 5 Spell Power Cure (All apparel light and Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchants), Maelstrom's Perfected Lightning Staff (Charged/shock enchant), and Infallible Aether jewelry (arcane with spell damage enchant)/restoration staff (Powered with absorb magicka enchant). 1 Mora's Whispers.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Power Surge, Boundless Storm, Blessing of Restoration, Energy Orb, Twilight Matriarch, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Dark Deal, Overflowing Altar, Elemental Drain, Blockade of Storms, Twilight Matriarch, and Aggressive Horn.
    Electric-Ward
    https://media.giphy.com/media/Wa0TGmtDvwW3e/giphy.gif
    • My Meme Tank Build that uses high resistance and variety of wards.
    • Gear: 5 Brands of Imperium (All body pieces except Head and Shoulders, with Divine trait, and with Prismatic Defense Enchants), full Mother Ciannait's (1 light and 1 medium. Divines and Max Mag Enchant), and Combat Physician jewelry (arcane with Prismatic Recovery Enchants), CP restoration staff (Infused with hardening enchant), and CP ice staff (Infused with crusher enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Critical Surge, Bound Aegis, Deep Thoughts, Boundless Storm, Healing Ward, and Replenishing Barrier.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Silver Leash (Elemental Drain if healer isn't running it), Bound Aegis, Frost Clench, Blockade of Frost, Empowered Ward, and Temporal Guard.
    Electric-Vamp
    https://media.giphy.com/media/ukDQiYZzRAxMZKcK86/giphy.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact for regular and NoCP build/Oblivion's Foe for dot build (medium chest and body pieces light. All Impenetrable. Max Mag Enchants). Gaze of Sithis and 1 light Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton (light shoulders, and impenetrable with Max Mag Enchants). Knight Slayer/Pariah jewelry/Plaguebreak for dot build (arcane with spell damage enchant)/lightning staff (infused with oblivion enchant for regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build. Sharpened for dot build)/restoration staff (infused with oblivion enchant regular and noCP build/absorb magicka enchant and Sharpened for dot build).
    • Ability-Bar 1: Structured Entropy, Boundless Storm, Soul Splitting Trap, Radiating Regeneration, Healing Ward, and Life Giver.
    • Ability-Bar 2: Drain Vigor (Elemental Susceptibility), Race Against Time, Rune Cage, Radiant Magelight, Empowered Ward, and Shatter Soul.
    Dawnfang
    https://media.tenor.com/ogWfvDdsqBIAAAAd/anime-black-clover.gif
    • My casual one bar heavy attack Templar build that only utilizes Aedric Spear abilities.
    • Gear: 5 Infallible Aether (Head or Shoulder and body pieces except Chest. All body pieces Divines with Max Mag Enchants), 1 Slimecraw Guise for max spell critical (Divines, light, Max Mag Enchant), Lightning Staff of the Sergeant (Infused/shock enchant), and Sergeant's Mail jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both arcane with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring.
    • Ability-Bar 1: Puncturing Sweep, Aurora Javelin, Toppling Charge, Blazing Spear, Radiant Ward, and Crescent Sweep.
    Duskfang
    https://media.tenor.com/Jo8aG_ouy_oAAAAd/ac-odyssey.gif
    • Tanky stage 4 vampire utility focused PvP healer that can take down very inexperienced players but is primarily focused on working alongside others in an organized group, PUGs, or zergs.
    • Gear: 5 Torug's Pact (Heavy Chest with light Head, Waist, Hands, and Feet. All body pieces Impenetrable. Health enchant on head and everything else Magicka Enchants), 1 Medium Mighty Chudan/Pirate Skeleton Shoulder (Impenetrable, Max Health Enchant), Knight Slayer Restoration Staff (Infused/Decrease Health enchant/Stealth-Draining Poison IX), and Knight Slayer jewelry (One Ring and one Neck. Both arcane with spell damage enchant). 1 Oakensoul Ring (Arcane with Spell Damage Enchant).
    • Ability-Bar 1:Radiant Oppression, Race Against Time, Aurora Javelin, Breath of Life, Resolving Vigor, and Life Giver (Shatter Soul).
    PvE Starter Gear
    https://media.giphy.com/media/6CovzgyTig7M4/giphy.gif
    • Gear: 5 Law of Julianos (heavy chest, gloves/belt light, and the rest can be light or 1 medium piece if you're not wearing medium anywhere else on your body. All in training if grinding for XP or divines), Armor of the Seducer or Magnus' Gift head, shoulder, and staves (light with 1 medium piece if you are not already wearing 1 medium Julianos piece. All in training or divines. The staves should be training or infused), and 3 purple Willpower Jewelry with Arcane trait (can be bought from trading guilds for relatively cheap.
    • Check tamrieltradecentre.com for the best deals if you're not using a price checking addon).
    Race
    https://media.giphy.com/media/sdEkeWpiaGz0A/giphy.gif
    • High elf, since you will not have issues with sustain, but other mag based races are also fine so this is more of a personal choice.
    Mundus Stones
    https://media.giphy.com/media/cT3wMhLGQWdKU/giphy.gif
    • PvP: The Lover for penetration when playing a sorc or temp.
    • PvE Healing/Damage: The Thief for decent crit rate.
    • PvE Tanking: The Lady to get close to resistance cap.
    Current Champion Points
    https://media.giphy.com/media/l4FGDAx6u3hthMhgI/giphy.gif
    • DPS Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Exploiter, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Thaumaturge, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Healer Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Hope Infusion, Weapon's Expert, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • Tanky Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Ironclad, Enduring Resolve, Reinforced, Duelist's Rebuff, Bastion, Ward Master, Rejuvenation, Fortified.
    • PvP Sorc: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, Occult Overload, Arcane Supremacy, Bastion, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvE Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Fighting Finesse, Master-at-Arms, Weapons Expert, Biting Aura, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    • PvP Temp: Shadowstrike/ Master Gatherer, Meticulous Disassembly/Plentiful Harvest, Steed's Blessing, Sustaining Shadows, Enlivening Overflow, Weapon's Expert, From the Brink, Arcane Supremacy, Celerity, Rejuvenation, Fortified, Boundless Vitality.
    Favorite Foods and Potions
    https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoTggaYFNd1FdAI/giphy.gif
    • Parse Food for PvE:(DPS) Ghastly Eye Bowl (increases Max Magicka by 4592 and Magicka Recovery by 459 for 2 hours).
    • Gold/Purple Food for Sorc PvP and Meme Tanking:(PvP) Clockwork Citrus Filet (increases Max Health by 3326, Health Recovery by 406 [useful if stage 1 vampire], Max Magicka by 3080, and Magicka Recovery by 338 for 2 hours). Witchmother's Potent Brew (Increase Max Magicka by 2856, Max Health by 3094, and Magicka Recovery by 315 for 2 hours.
    • Trash Potions when feeling cheap: Regular CP150 Essence of Magicka pots that I obtain frequently from playing the game or Crown Tri-Restoration Potion obtained from dailies.
    • Crafted Potions: Essence of Spell Critical (Bugloss, Lady's Smock, and Water Hyacinth). Without magelight this is my primary means of obtaining Major Prophecy on my Sorc, which increases my Spell Critical Rating. This also heals and restores magicka. Essence of Immovability (Columbine, Corn Flower, and Wormwood). I use this in PvP, since this gives me stealth detection, knockback immunity, and restores magicka (better to use it when competent allies are nearby, since it might reveal that you are surrounded by multiple players in stealth and you will not have an emergency pot available after use). Essence of Invisibility with only 2 ingredients (Blue Entoloma, Namira's Rot, Nirnroot, or Spider Egg). I use this in PvE content that requires stealth and if I need more speed I'll use Rapid Maneuver before using the potion. Essence of Invisibility with 3 ingredients (Blessed Thistle, Blue Entoloma, and Namira's Rot). Very useful in PvP alongside the vampire Dark Stalker passive, since you'll be invisible, ignore movement speed penalty while in Crouch, and you'll have a 30% movement speed boost from Major Expedition (I always have this slotted when riding from point A to B in PvP land, since gankers are always lurking). My templar will mostly use Essence of Health (Tri-Stat Potion) Ingredients: (Mountain Flower, Columbine, and Bugloss).
  • boi_anachronism_
    boi_anachronism_
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    Braffin wrote: »
    I share your analysis of the issues at hand: A lot of content is far too easy for far too many players currently due to an extensive power-creep.

    I'm not convinced, that excluding trial gear is helpful in fixing this issues. Don't forget, that these sets are basically a 4pc set outside of instanced PvE-content, so they do nothing in regard of making overland easier (no minor slayer is applied).

    Regarding speedrunning in normal dungeons I think it's more helpful to incentivize the vet queue for well-geared players, because at present there is no advantage for playing content on vet most of the time. That's why people simply run a rnd as fast as possible for the transmutes and XP before doing something else. Double the earned transmutes for queueing on vet and the issue is solved without excluding gear (which isn't displaced in vet dungeons for example) from content.

    I can still solo speed run normal dungeons in overland and crafted sets. I dont think this would accomplish much. Most serious vet players can. I do daily dungeons with guildmates regardless and it honestly would effect nothing for me either way since i can still easily push 90k without trial gear. Heck i can push 95k with only one full 5 piece and a monster set. I did it by accident one time lol for overland? I can do it naked and its still a cake walk so that is certainly no solution. As far as rewards. Welp i would wager that you will find more players that are out of their depth in vet content. This in turn might cause more groups to disband. This has been brought up before in the context of this topic.The undaunted keys will be an interesting test of this theory to a degree I think.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Gear you get from one activity is often good for use in a different activity. This is by design as it encourages players to try a variety of activities. A PvP guild I was in had weekly gear runs in trials because some member wanted the set for PvP. Some of those players would have never touched a trial if it were not for the gear they wanted.
    Skills are the same way. As example some skills in the PvP lines work well for dungeons and trials. THe developers put this in play so we have incentive to venture into different aspects of the game.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    Braffin wrote: »
    I share your analysis of the issues at hand: A lot of content is far too easy for far too many players currently due to an extensive power-creep.

    I'm not convinced, that excluding trial gear is helpful in fixing this issues. Don't forget, that these sets are basically a 4pc set outside of instanced PvE-content, so they do nothing in regard of making overland easier (no minor slayer is applied).

    Regarding speedrunning in normal dungeons I think it's more helpful to incentivize the vet queue for well-geared players, because at present there is no advantage for playing content on vet most of the time. That's why people simply run a rnd as fast as possible for the transmutes and XP before doing something else. Double the earned transmutes for queueing on vet and the issue is solved without excluding gear (which isn't displaced in vet dungeons for example) from content.

    I can still solo speed run normal dungeons in overland and crafted sets. I dont think this would accomplish much. Most serious vet players can. I do daily dungeons with guildmates regardless and it honestly would effect nothing for me either way since i can still easily push 90k without trial gear. Heck i can push 95k with only one full 5 piece and a monster set. I did it by accident one time lol for overland? I can do it naked and its still a cake walk so that is certainly no solution. As far as rewards. Welp i would wager that you will find more players that are out of their depth in vet content. This in turn might cause more groups to disband. This has been brought up before in the context of this topic.The undaunted keys will be an interesting test of this theory to a degree I think.

    I agree regarding the sets. It would change nothing. Because the sets aren't the issue (if there is any at all as far as we're talking about dungeons).
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Hapexamendios
    Hapexamendios
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    I could speed run a dungeon like Fungal 1 with miscellaneous gear if I was so inclined so I really don't see the point.
  • valenwood_vegan
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    I've never done a trial and have no trial gear, and I assure you... I'm still able to wreck overland or speedrun a dungeon if I so desire.
  • Brakkish
    Brakkish
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    I doubt there's any concerns from players wearing Trial gear. Hard to imagine they'd be doing any overland content for the challenge. Any reason that they might be there; I'm sure they want to get through it as quickly as possible anyway.

    Nothing to fix here.
    CP2332 +3100 hrs spent in BGs. US PS5 - Nine PVP Tanks - toons named variations of "Combat Medic" I like long walks on the beach. What's PVE? https://www.youtube.com/brakkish
  • merpins
    merpins
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    Treeshka wrote: »
    I can still speed run a normal dungeon in crafted gear with my Arcanist.

    I can speed run a normal dungeon in crafted gear with basically any class. Warden, Templar, Arcanist, Sorcerer, NB... Maybe not Necro or DK cause I don't play them, but still.
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    I think what might work better for the speed runners is something we NOW have in the game - use group finder for people that want to quest, and assume the random queue is those that want to speedrun ... the problem is already solved, we just have to use the solution.

    Auldwulfe
  • moo_2021
    moo_2021
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    I think what might work better for the speed runners is something we NOW have in the game - use group finder for people that want to quest, and assume the random queue is those that want to speedrun ... the problem is already solved, we just have to use the solution.

    I saw at least a few in random are premade 3-person groups who are below 50 and just needed a tank. Sometimes they don't have sufficient level and it can't work without high CP fully equipped tanks, who would not normally use group finders.
  • WhosTheFancyOneNow
    WhosTheFancyOneNow
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    Auldwulfe wrote: »
    I think what might work better for the speed runners is something we NOW have in the game - use group finder for people that want to quest, and assume the random queue is those that want to speedrun ... the problem is already solved, we just have to use the solution.

    Auldwulfe

    UM nO! Speed runners should use the group finder and stop bullying the rN for their own purposes. rN doesnt exist for speed runners - if speed runners want to speed run THEY can use the group finder.
  • Auldwulfe
    Auldwulfe
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    Reverse it then, speed runners post in group finder that they are looking to run quick - they can easily get 4 DPS then, and queue how they want as a group, and go get their stones ... either way works ...
    Right now, we have a group finder, AND we have a random queue..... use one for one purpose, and the other for the other purpose...... Simple solution.

    Auldwulfe
  • Hapexamendios
    Hapexamendios
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    If you want to run a dungeon a certain way, whether it be doing a quest or speed running, use the group finder. Using the random queue is going to get you exactly that.
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