Patch Notes v101 - Bounty Board Kill 20 Players for Cyrodil Feedback

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

First of all, I apologize if this isn't the right section for this post. I was confused on where to place it.

As a PVP-Centric player, as well as a former DAoC player for several years. I have some input and critique i'd like to share about alliance points, the bounty board quest, and the armor pieces you can purchase with alliance points.

According to the new patch notes released while the servers are down, the bounty board "kill 20 players" quest has been changed to be a daily rather than a repeatable. Which, doesn't truly bother me in theory because I felt that constantly porting back to receive your reward and renew the quest every 5 minutes was rather silly. It wasn't a logical approach considering that it encouraged players to leave the fight rather than staying and encouraging them to assist in the Alliance effort. However, this isn't to say that a kill <X> amount of players quest is bad as a concept. It wasn't a bad concept, because it allowed for small-scale and even solo Cyrodil players to have an effective route of gaining alliance points and armor.

However, the issue was that the number of players required was simply too small. It would be more realistic if the quest were kill 100 players (this would also scale with the fast pace combat in Cyrodil and encourage more players to stay in the fight). The reward could be bumped up as well. As it once stood, the quest originally granted 1,000 alliance points after you killed 20 players. So, just bump it up to 100 players required and bump the reward up to, let's say, 3,000 to 5,000 alliance points. It HAS to be scaled higher, because players WILL take these quests, and grind them out in order to advance. The lower the amount of players required to achieve quest completion, the more porting back and running they will have to do. That's what players do, and you should know this. This is more logical for the following reasons:

-Encourages players to stay in Alliance vs. Alliance fights longer.
-Less grindy, and less porting away from the battle ultimately

That isn't all. With the way alliance points and buying armor is currently, and now the quest being changed to a daily rather than a repeatable. People are not going to want to spend their alliance points on a bag and have a small random chance of getting a piece of armor that's actually useful. Also, due to how the merchants sell bags with RNG based loot, you constantly end up spending your alliance points on these items and end up receiving multiples of an item you've already once received. This is just awful, because not only are you creating a time-sink, but you're actually causing players to waste alliance points. This is a major issue to me, and many of my circle of friends/guildies.

Synthetik

I agree, but what about people "like myself," who doesn't like to join the zergy, PUG groups, running around from castle to castle? What about people like myself and my few guild mates that like to PvP casually at the questing area's in Cyradiil? 20 people to us was a big accomplishment and definitely worth 1,000 measly alliance points at the bounty board. I do agree that killing 20 people in a zerg is pointless, but for those of us who aren't in a zerg it's not at all pointless. Now they're making the game sound like WoW by adding "dailies." Well, take a look in the history books of MMO's who's tried to be like WoW in the past. Failure..

-Synthetik

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

I agree, hearing the term "daily" in and of itself leaves a rather bitter taste in my mouth.

tyrion_archer

I agree with the ideas in this post.
And to add to it, give us more variety in pvp questing. ZOS, the PvE has countless quests, I am sure your competent team can come up with some ingenious ideas on quests that cater to solo players, 4-man groups and for the zergs.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

tyrion_archer wrote: »

I agree with the ideas in this post.
And to add to it, give us more variety in pvp questing. ZOS, the PvE has countless quests, I am sure your competent team can come up with some ingenious ideas on quests that cater to solo players, 4-man groups and for the zergs.

Variety is always a beneficial thing. Nobody wants to play these games to be clones of one another. That includes character models, armor, name, etc.

Hawtsauce

I would totally OK with the change to daily so long as single enemy kills also provide XP/AP/gold - why shouldnt it ? if I kill a bandit in a PvE zone I get XP and gold or items to equip or sell

Synthetik

tyrion_archer wrote: »

I agree with the ideas in this post.
And to add to it, give us more variety in pvp questing. ZOS, the PvE has countless quests, I am sure your competent team can come up with some ingenious ideas on quests that cater to solo players, 4-man groups and for the zergs.

Couldn't agree more. I would like to see 4 man or less group bounties or some other kind of quest that we can have fun doing. Dailies aren't fun for people who can't come on here every day. When I play, I like to get as much playtime as I can out of my time. There shouldn't ever be any "dailies." This is so disheartening to hear.

-Synthetik

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

I know there's more people that have an issue with this.

Synthetik

Hawtsauce wrote: »

I would totally OK with the change to daily so long as single enemy kills also provide XP/AP/gold - why shouldnt it ? if I kill a bandit in a PvE zone I get XP and gold or items to equip or sell

Agree with you, too, Hawtsauce.

Inactive Account

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

It does indeed feel as if it were a half-assed resolution. I understand the developers have numerous other issues to encounter and resolve. However, this by itself isn't a small issue either.

Synthetik

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

How do you know that this is their intentions, nobertpual? I sure hope you're right about this.

Synthetik

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

[quote=It does indeed feel as if it were a half-assed resolution. I understand the developers have numerous other issues to encounter and resolve. However, this by itself isn't a small issue either.

No, it's not a small issue. No one should be forced to join zerg/PUG groups every time they login to gain viable amounts of Alliance points. There needs to be a balance in playstyles/Alliance quests.

akfuego

5000 points for 100 kills sounds good to me

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

In Dark Age of Camelot, the realm rank of the player you killed determined the amount of realm points you received. If you were in a group, the total points worth of the enemy player you killed was distributed to the entire group in portions. This was a good algorithm. Why? Because if a solo player killed another solo player, the player would receive the full reward.

Dark Age of Camelot had 8 man full groups.
1 player could be worth, for example, 1,500 realm points.
If you were solo and killed a player, you received the total 1,500 approx. realm points. If in a group, you received something around 100-300 realm points.

Things like this are examples of good game design, because it still made grouping worth it, and still gave incentives for solo players.

Equinox

Maybe integrate both? A daily with a large 'accumulated' kills and a smaller repeatable quest... Sometimes I PvP for hours, but sometimes for half an hour.

Hawtsauce

< ex-DAOC vet , I totally agree with you. I actually preferred solo play ( ok yes sometimes i was in the 3 man stealth grps camping bridges LOL )

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Equinox wrote: »

Maybe integrate both? A daily with a large 'accumulated' kills and a smaller repeatable quest... Sometimes I PvP for hours, but sometimes for half an hour.

That wouldn't accomplish anything, because players will take the "path of least resistance" and still grab the 20 player quest in order to grind out alliance points. This wouldn't resolve the issue with players porting in and out every few minutes to grind out the quest. With my proposed methodology, players would have to stay in the fight longer thus being a larger asset/contributor to the alliance war effort, and still receive great reward for doing so.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Hawtsauce wrote: »

< ex-DAOC vet , I totally agree with you. I actually preferred solo play ( ok yes sometimes i was in the 3 man stealth grps camping bridges LOL )

Haha. RR10L8 Scout, RR11L3 Cleric, RR9.7 Cabalist.

This game pulls a lot of inspiration from DAoC, but, there's still much more they need to learn from DAoC.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

I'd like to keep this thread active and gather more input from players.

tallenn

They could easily make it just scalable. So, you go out and fight for however long you feel like, then when you're done PvPing for the day, go turn in the quest and get rewarded according to how many kills you have. No need to leave the fight, no crap daily quest.Daily quests suck the big one.

Also, no imbalance, as everyone has equal access to the same quest. If that's considered too much ap, tone down the reward across the board. If there's something wrong with this idea, then there's something wrong with the whole idea of having a quest for killing players in the first place. It's just a matter of scale.

Heck, they could simply remove the quest altogether and increase the ap reward for killing players. What's the difference?

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

tallenn wrote: »

They could easily make it just scalable. So, you go out and fight for however long you feel like, then when you're done PvPing for the day, go turn in the quest and get rewarded according to how many kills you have. No need to leave the fight, no crap daily quest.Daily quests suck the big one.

Also, no imbalance, as everyone has equal access to the same quest. If that's considered too much ap, tone down the reward across the board. If there's something wrong with this idea, then there's something wrong with the whole idea of having a quest for killing players in the first place. It's just a matter of scale.

Heck, they could simply remove the quest altogether and increase the ap reward for killing players. What's the difference?

This is a great alternative as well. I loathe dailies, they're an awful method. Why? The game developers are effectively forcing you into a quest, and if you don't participate in the daily, you are effectively putting yourself at a much greater disadvantage.

Yes, game developers need to realize how important it is not to force a player into a playstayle, or quest, etc.

Inactive Account

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

How do you know that this is their intentions, nobertpual? I sure hope you're right about this.

clarification...in Bold

Synthetik

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

How do you know that this is their intentions, nobertpual? I sure hope you're right about this.

clarification...in Bold

Forgive me, nobertpaul but can you explain a little further? I'm really confused.

Hawtsauce

What about War NPCs that you can access in all major cities that allow you to turn in trophies from slain enemies ( knucklebones or skulls, etc ). Trophies stack to 999 , you can turn in 20 at a time ( unlimited number of time per day ) and choose to exchange them for a chest containing XP or AP or gold or random gear - let players choose how they want to be rewarded

Awe

well, minus 1 reason to stay in pvp zone...pvp should reward, as any other activity. (as a mix of pvp/pve player i enjoy both parts, just 1st of them lost some magnitude)
very bad update.
besides, i doubt they will remove points from those, who already got them a lot with this quest.

austinwalter87ub17_ESO

Awe wrote: »

well, minus 1 reason to stay in pvp zone...pvp should reward, as any other activity. (as a mix of pvp/pve player i enjoy both parts, just 1st of them lost some magnitude)
very bad update.
besides, i doubt they will remove points from those, who already got them a lot with this quest.

The reward from the quest was fine. However, the quest in and of itself wasn't okay. Simply because it encouraged more porting back and running to refresh the quest rather than staying at a keep to defend or siege. I know, for an absolute fact, that tens of thousands of players go to the bounty board to grab the quest. Go out and get their 20 kills, and then they kamikaze or port back.

They're more worried about the quest reward than the fight. Why? Because the quest creates that incentive, and it detracts from the PVP itself.

Sinthrax

They had to change it due to the way people was using it. I don't see how they missed the fact people would do this over and over and over and over and over..well, you get the picture.

To me it was almost an exploit except that is was ZOS fault for putting something like this in the game. People would suicide just to go back and get quest again. It doesn't work in concept regardless how much you defend it.

Now, I do agree they need to come up with something different and better.

Sinthrax

Awe wrote: »

well, minus 1 reason to stay in pvp zone...pvp should reward, as any other activity. (as a mix of pvp/pve player i enjoy both parts, just 1st of them lost some magnitude)
very bad update.
besides, i doubt they will remove points from those, who already got them a lot with this quest.

I am not trying to bash here but..

I don't see how this was a good idea. I mean people would get the quest and run to fight, get 20 kills in 5 seconds and suicide to do it again. How is this good for the game?

Inactive Account

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

How do you know that this is their intentions, nobertpual? I sure hope you're right about this.

clarification...in Bold

Forgive me, nobertpaul but can you explain a little further? I'm really confused.

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Synthetik wrote: »

nobertpaulb16_ESO wrote: »

Good ideas posted here on the thread.
It seems that Zenimax has temporarily changed this repeatable quest to daily, until they can come up with a reasonable alternative. Something that works for everyone.

How do you know that this is their intentions, nobertpual? I sure hope you're right about this.

clarification...in Bold

Forgive me, nobertpaul but can you explain a little further? I'm really confused.

I will attempt to expand my thoughts.

Through out the Beta events this "issue" was known and to my knowledge, not ratified. PTS players made this particular " exploit" (not the best word) know to the developers.

So, during early access the full extent of this particular issue has come to light. As this is still early access and still the Beginnings of a new MMO. Many issues are showing up. There would then be a triage type system in place to deal with these issues. (you would think) Some issues need a temporary patch on them till the full issue can be looked into further. ie: the rapid XP gain in the completion of the kill 20 enemy players quest; form repeatable to daily.

Yes, this particular one can be described, by some, as an important one to be dealt with, but as there are no doubt many more issues being worked on right now. The developers are working on the issues they feel are more important to game play right now.

I hope this clarifies my earlier statements.

Note: As I am, to this point, unaware of the rewards to be gained from the new "daily", XP and Alliance points, I cannot say if, in it's new form, this will be accepted or rejected by the player base.

Krision

akfuego wrote: »

5000 points for 100 kills sounds good to me

GOOD, GOOD...