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I’m playing magsorc again after 8 years, here’s some suggestions to improve it

GusTheWizard
GusTheWizard
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First off I think pvp magsorc feels very unique compared to the other class I like it but there’s some issues with skills I feel are out of date.

For instance Dark Exchange and it’s morphs feel annoying to use especially if you’re not using the twilight and it’s your burst heal, what I would change with this skill I would remove the cast time but have a caveat to where if you’re blocking while casting this skill you will not receive the initial burst of resources, this way you can have the ability to use it as a burst heal but not have it feel overpowered in terms of resource return.

Second change i’d make is the (Mages’ Fury morph) Endless Fury I would make the two damage portions more equal, my Endless Fury hits for 4256 and another 15244 if the target is below 20% health, it could be used as a spammable if changed to 9500 as the initial hit and 10000 if the target is below 20%, this way the morph still does the same amount of damage and would give the morphs more identity “Do you want more bar space? use this instead of Force Pulse or Elemental Weapon” also gives the players who’ve been asking for a lightning spammable a bone.

That is all thank you for your time.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on January 26, 2024 4:44AM
  • ZOS_Hadeostry
    Greetings,

    After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's feedback for skills.

    Thank you for your understanding
    Staff Post
  • El_Borracho
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    The best and worst thing to happen to Magsorcs is the Oakensoul ring. Made it easier to play, pushed damage into the range to make it viable on a lot of veteran PVE content, and resurrected a class. Sadly, the existence of the ring makes it very difficult to buff sorcerer skills, especially damage skills, without taking the ring into account.

    So if you were to change Mages Fury, you have to account for what the ring will do to the increase in that damage, which could be very high, which would have a major impact on PVP. The devs have kind of painted themselves into a corner with this class. BTW, outside of VDSA, I wish Mages Wrath had some viability in PVE.
  • GusTheWizard
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    So if you were to change Mages Fury, you have to account for what the ring will do to the increase in that damage, which could be very high, which would have a major impact on PVP. The devs have kind of painted themselves into a corner with this class. BTW, outside of VDSA, I wish Mages Wrath had some viability in PVE.

    I doubt it most pvp oakensorcs don’t use either morph of mages’ fury they just heavy attack because they don’t have room for a spammable of any kind. Regardless I’m not talking about increasing the damage of the skill I’m saying take damage from the end portion and add it to the initial hit, it’d still do the same amount just a spammables worth while they’re not below 20% health.
  • Quethrosar
    Quethrosar
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    The best and worst thing to happen to Magsorcs is the Oakensoul ring. Made it easier to play, pushed damage into the range to make it viable on a lot of veteran PVE content, and resurrected a class. Sadly, the existence of the ring makes it very difficult to buff sorcerer skills, especially damage skills, without taking the ring into account.

    So if you were to change Mages Fury, you have to account for what the ring will do to the increase in that damage, which could be very high, which would have a major impact on PVP. The devs have kind of painted themselves into a corner with this class. BTW, outside of VDSA, I wish Mages Wrath had some viability in PVE.

    mage's wrath , fury whatever is great if you lay it down right, hit a few mobs in trash pack with it and then get one to execute and chain booms. is it as fast as arcanist? no, but nothing is :)
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    Quethrosar wrote: »
    The best and worst thing to happen to Magsorcs is the Oakensoul ring. Made it easier to play, pushed damage into the range to make it viable on a lot of veteran PVE content, and resurrected a class. Sadly, the existence of the ring makes it very difficult to buff sorcerer skills, especially damage skills, without taking the ring into account.

    So if you were to change Mages Fury, you have to account for what the ring will do to the increase in that damage, which could be very high, which would have a major impact on PVP. The devs have kind of painted themselves into a corner with this class. BTW, outside of VDSA, I wish Mages Wrath had some viability in PVE.

    mage's wrath , fury whatever is great if you lay it down right, hit a few mobs in trash pack with it and then get one to execute and chain booms. is it as fast as arcanist? no, but nothing is :)

    Exactly. Which is why it melts things in VDSA. It does work really well in PVP, too. Haven't had the same success with it in trials or dungeons boss fights, though. I wish it was better

    @GusTheWizard I was just using that skill as an example, as if you upped the original hit to 9500, the ring could/would up that higher, which would have to be examined as would all sorc skills as the ring is most widely used on sorcs. Not a math guy, but upping the original hit could make that into a very strong spammable in PVP. I'm not anti-ring or anti-sorc, but just saying that because of the ring, any changes will be magnified.
  • GusTheWizard
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    @GusTheWizard I was just using that skill as an example, as if you upped the original hit to 9500, the ring could/would up that higher, which would have to be examined as would all sorc skills as the ring is most widely used on sorcs. Not a math guy, but upping the original hit could make that into a very strong spammable in PVP. I'm not anti-ring or anti-sorc, but just saying that because of the ring, any changes will be magnified.

    Ah well I meant taking that all in and adjust it accordingly so it does the same damage as on live just with more in the initial hit.

    It’s as simple as changing numbers let’s say now with no modifiers the skill does 3000 and 12000, you just move 4000 to the initial hit so it’s 7000 and 8000 and with modifiers, sets and max magic etc it’ll come out as the same numbers.
    Edited by GusTheWizard on January 26, 2024 10:25PM
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Quethrosar wrote: »
    The best and worst thing to happen to Magsorcs is the Oakensoul ring. Made it easier to play, pushed damage into the range to make it viable on a lot of veteran PVE content, and resurrected a class. Sadly, the existence of the ring makes it very difficult to buff sorcerer skills, especially damage skills, without taking the ring into account.

    So if you were to change Mages Fury, you have to account for what the ring will do to the increase in that damage, which could be very high, which would have a major impact on PVP. The devs have kind of painted themselves into a corner with this class. BTW, outside of VDSA, I wish Mages Wrath had some viability in PVE.

    mage's wrath , fury whatever is great if you lay it down right, hit a few mobs in trash pack with it and then get one to execute and chain booms. is it as fast as arcanist? no, but nothing is :)

    Exactly. Which is why it melts things in VDSA. It does work really well in PVP, too. Haven't had the same success with it in trials or dungeons boss fights, though. I wish it was better

    @GusTheWizard I was just using that skill as an example, as if you upped the original hit to 9500, the ring could/would up that higher, which would have to be examined as would all sorc skills as the ring is most widely used on sorcs. Not a math guy, but upping the original hit could make that into a very strong spammable in PVP. I'm not anti-ring or anti-sorc, but just saying that because of the ring, any changes will be magnified.

    I can't understand the angle your trying to make here, Oakensoul is not exclusive to Sorcs and they already have access to multiple spammables they can use if they want to, as does every other class using this ring. There isn't anything that special on Oakensoul, it's just a result of the class inherently having very little buffs built into their core skills and being super tight on space due to double bar pets. Those 2 things are huge issues I won't even begin to touch on here as they need to be improved.

    I'll show some math on how this would actually look.

    Live Mage's Fury
    Mages' Fury (2430 Mag):
    • 871 Shock Damage
    • 3195 Shock Damage if below -20% HP within 4s and 696 Shock Damage to nearby enemies.
      • Mages' Wrath (2430 Mag):
        • AoE portion of execute changes from 696 to 3195 Shock Damage.
      • Endless Fury (2160 Mag):
        • Reduced cost.
        • Restore 4860 Mag if any enemy is killed within 5s of being hit.

    Here is how an updated Mage's Fury would look using actual skill standards:
    Mages' Fury (2700 Mag):
    • 2091 Shock Damage
    • 1975 Shock Damage if below -20% HP within 4s and 696 Shock Damage to nearby enemies.
      • Mages' Wrath (2700 Mag):
        • AoE portion of execute changes from 696 to 1975 Shock Damage.
      • Endless Fury (2430 Mag):
        • Reduced cost.
        • Restore 4860 Mag if any enemy is killed within 5s of being hit.

    When compared to Force Shock morphs, you'll find they're fairly balanced in total value:
    Force Shock (2700 Mag):
    • 696 Flame + 696 Frost + 696 Shock = 2088
      • Force Pulse (2700 Mag)
        • 2 nearby enemies take 2399 Magic Damage if they were already afflicted with a status effect.
      • Crushing Shock (2430 Mag)
        • Reduced cost.
        • Enemies hit while casting are interrupted, set Off Balance, and stunned for 3 seconds.

    To summarize:
    • Force Pulse/Crushing Shock get 3k penetration and 3.6k mag return on kill that Fury/Wrath wouldn't get passively.
    • Fury/Wrath's only passive gives the full +5% Shock damage while Force Shock only gets 1/3 of that, so essentially +1.66%, pretty negligible and not really comparative to losing Burning/Chilled or 3k pen.
    • Force Pulse/Crushing Shock has better status effect chance because of the 3x hits using 3 different elements, this results in a lot of extra damage and maim from Burning/Chilled.
    • The aoe procs are similar between Force Pulse and Mage's Wrath, however Wrath only works in Execute.
    • For Endless Fury vs Crushing Shock, you're giving up the interupt/off balance/stun for 1.2k more mag return on kill.

    All in all, very similar skills. For execute, Fury/Wrath come out ahead, but in every other aspect, Force Pulse/Crushing Shock wins as a spammable.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 26, 2024 10:22PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    ^
    This is all to say that I don't believe the base skill of Fury/Wrath should actually change to a spammable, but I could see it from a set bonus. This idea of it being a spammable has come up over the years, the 1 time I agreed on doing this was during the PTS for the class sets. A lot of us suggested they add to the Sorc Stormcalling set a bonus in which it reduces the execute damage by x%, but increases the upfront damage by x%.

    The aim being the same as this thread, to shift the execute portion to the front, so in execute it's exactly the same dps, but above execute you could use it as a spammable to actually proc the class set which is currently terribly designed.

    They didn't listen, if they don't do this idea for the set in the future, then it just needs a complete rework.

    For base game changes. I suggested Fury/Wrath get the dynamic cost treatment Arcanist has. Aka, based on your highest resource decides the cost type. It would fit really nicely on an execute. Beyond that, I mentioned converting 1 of the morphs into a more traditional execute without the delayed burst, for instead a 300% scaling value from 50% hp.

    So many good ideas floating around though, wish they'd do something for non pet sorc.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 26, 2024 10:30PM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • El_Borracho
    El_Borracho
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    @MashmalloMan My point is pretty clear, that the Oakensorc ring works the best with the sorcerer toolkit, hence why it is the most popular class to use that ring. Which means if you are looking to buff damage from sorcerer skills, you have to take the ring into account. Just as if you were to try to buff channeled skills from arcanist, you would have to take the amulet into account.

    I don't know how many times I can say this, but here we go again: I AM NOT AGAINST THE RING OR BUFFING SORCERERS. Hope that helps. But dozens of "Nerf this" threads that still exist for Oakensorcs. Which means that if you took the one class that uses that ring more than all of the others, and made it stronger, chances are you will get more "Nerf this" threads for the ring and sorcerers. Which means you'd have to do it in a way that the ring doesn't magnify the changes beyond what is intended if you want those changes to last past one update cycle
  • ZhuJiuyin
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    Oakensoul is just a crutch! Didn't help Sorc reach a high level. Trying to find the Sorc using Oakensorc in HM in the ESO logs, it's almost zero.
    People are just overly afraid of Oakensorc for no reason. But Oakensoul is just a crutch to help Sorc, whose legs have been broken in many nerfs, walk (just walk, but not run).
    It is a fundamental misunderstanding to think that Oakensoul is best suited for Sorc, in fact it is exactly the opposite. It was Sorc who was forced to use Oakensoul to get enough buffs to play the game.
    "是燭九陰,是燭龍。"──by "The Classic of Mountains and Seas "English is not my first language,If something is ambiguous, rude due to context and translation issues, etc., please remind me, thanks.
  • JerBearESO
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    I like the idea of changing one of the mages fury morph to be spammable viable :)
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