What's your stance on this?

Satis1994b14a_ESO

S1D3FX wrote: »

Since all of the items in the store shouldn't provide any form of advantage, what if they had 2 prices associated with all of the items in store? One for real cash and one for in game currency. In game wouldn't have to be limited to gold either; including raw material might make it interesting.

I like that as well.

Biding_My_Time

I really don't see the problem here. I'm assuming not all "fun stuff" will be gained via additional charges. I'm happy to pay an ongoing fee for something that provides me countless hours of entertainment. If I want the fluff badly enough, I'll buy it. As long as nothing sinister such as combining a subscription fee with pay2win items isn't implemented, what's there to gripe about?

Medicius

I don't have any concrete backing or examples, so this is just my opinion. But the Sub Model inherently puts a higher weight on the shoulders of the owner. Even with EULAs and other agreed upon legalese statements that allow you to avoid lawsuits, you're still faced with customers that expect a higher level of service, commitment, and communication than a F2P with Store model would have.

If Zenimax can pull it off and provide the additional level of detail Sub Customers "should" get, then all power to them. Realistically, the customer holds some of the power in this relationship as they are providing Zenimax with a monthly stipend based on Zenimax' performance in supporting the electronic service they offer.

If Zenimax stumbles, which they will, some customers will remove their portion of the monthly income. I think Zenimax is looking for a way to offset that mode of income with another based on the store model. What would be interesting to know is how many subs are required for Zenimax to keep the game as-is and how many are required to give customers the growth they expect from this series of games.

But in the end, Zenimax is around to make money. Their shareholders or stock owners or whomever are looking to see increased dividends each quarter or a positive increase overall. Zenimax believes they've found the way to do it.

immari1941

I wouldn't mind a store with vanity items. Heck, I like having the little scuttler and mudcrab things just follow me while I explore simply for the fact that they look cute. But! I agree with others on how if a store is implemented, paying for advantages defeats the entire purpose of leveling up and collecting shards and building our craft!

Vanity items = yes. Advantages in the form of buying super cool armor and weapons and junk = no.

Yasha

SmithNL wrote: »

The subscription format is fine to me. It brings a lot of benefits to a game like great costumer support, proper servers and lots of updates. I also like the idea of supporting the developing team so they can keep doing what they do best without employees being fired because the studio had a rough month. It creates a steady money flow that is importent for the continued development of the game.

The idea that a subscription = benefits like customer support, stable servers, and lots of updates is something of a myth.

I have played sub-based mmos that have had none of the above (Warhammer Online), and games with other business models that have all of those benefits.

Not to mention that regular updates usually amount to fluff and bug fixes, and you have to fork out $60 again for real content (expansions).

In terms of business performance many games have actually grown after dropping a sub-based model.

Shimond

Medicius wrote: »

I don't have any concrete backing or examples, so this is just my opinion. But the Sub Model inherently puts a higher weight on the shoulders of the owner. Even with EULAs and other agreed upon legalese statements that allow you to avoid lawsuits, you're still faced with customers that expect a higher level of service, commitment, and communication than a F2P with Store model would have.

F2P games sure seem to support this view (i.e. the games are crap built around a cash shop). It'd be interesting if internally that's the truth - they just don't give a crap about the quality of the game once they go F2P because "hey, it's free. quit whining"

Sagatho

hello were is the source of the ingame store? is a official new?

Laerrus

pysgod1978b14_ESO wrote: »

I have no issues with vanity items. Now if they started offering weapons and armor for money then I'd have issues. Once a game starts selling equipment for money there is no longer a real need for crafting or questing. It becomes a game of buy PvP equipment and sit around on your duff ala ow though apparently some sort of half hearted effort is required.

Aye, this is what killed one MMO for me, when they went Pay to Win. It became a rich man's game overnight just like many facebook games.

I really hope Zenimax doesn't go down a similar path with TESO.

Raice wrote: »

1. I don't like the people who play in F2P games. They make for a very poor community that has zero care or loyalty about the game or the other players.

This too! I recently logged back into a certain MMO to see what the game was like with all the changes. I didn't even bother leaving the capital city my toon was parked in.

The amount of foul language, flame baiting and bullying that I saw in chat made me want to log out... permanently. It was much worse than some of the poor behavior that most folks are familiar with in WoW or EQ.

Sad, that particular MMO used to have an awesome community.

Satis1994b14a_ESO

Sagatho wrote: »

hello were is the source of the ingame store? is a official new?

It's not official; however, it's been stated that there's a plan for it. (or something along these lines).

Shimond

Sagatho wrote: »

hello were is the source of the ingame store? is a official new?

They talked a little about it in the Reddit AMA

Franklin549

I see where you are coming from but I am not worried (yet).
I think this is the developers just trying to maximize their income stream. If you can buy a vanity pet or something that is for appearance only I don't have a problem with that. If it starts to have items that affect game play then I will have a problem with it.
I agree with SmithNL though. I would rather stuff like this be earned through rare drops, dungeon rewards or something like that, but I can't fault ESO for trying out a store.

Khandi

I don't mind a cash shop in a P2P as an idea. As other people have stated it is a slippery slope. Sure it starts with a costume and maybe some weapon skins, then sure as god made little green apples, here come the buff food, then mounts, then XP buffs....there is no way a business model will not cave to consumer demand once things have been implemented, in this case, the cash shop opens.

Then the worst of the worst happens....the game goes F2P. Seriously.

Melian

They have had that in WoW forever and it didn't bother me there. Mind you, WoW only offered a handful of vanity items in the store and there were many, many more cool looking mounts, pets and armor styles available in the game itself, so it didn't feel like "looking cool" was behind a paywall. It's really a matter of degree in that case. I want to get good looking gear by playing the game, not by paying extra - if ESO comes out with new armor motifs, for instance, I hope most of them, and good ones, come from playing. Actually, for me, a vanity item loses a lot of its appeal and all of its status when I realize it's obtained by paying real money instead of, say, killing a raid boss. I'm probably not the only person who feels that way.

What WoW's doing now (selling level 90's) is another matter entirely and would absolutely not be ok.

Gedalya

I will gladly spend more money for this game due to it's greatness.

Why? Because:

ESO = Awesome

Where:
E = Ebony
S = Soul Gem
O = Orichalcum

These elements can be taken to a forge and merged starting at level 1.

jircris11

Satis1994b14a_ESO wrote: »

Shubuta wrote: »

Well if you were developing a game and wanted to decide a business model what would you do? Look at what's been most successful in the past. Two most successful methods? Monthly sub and extensive vanity store items at a very moderate price.

I support Zenimax in this decision.

The vanity store usually turns around and bites us, players, in the butt, due to the fact that it becomes a tools that allows the company to distribute game changing items, if needed.

If the store was absent completely, then there's that one more step they have to take in order to sell game changing items in the game.

See where I'm kind of coming from? It is a very dangerous tool that has a HUGE potential to ruin the overall game experience for millions of people. Their obvious answer to this is probably: "Don't worry, we can handle it." The question is: can they?

And I personally think the answer here is a simple: no. Not because they're "bad people" (I guess you could say), but it's because they're human, and we humans are known to make greedy decisions.

Normally i would agree but i play GW2 as well as ESO. GW2 has yet to sell any game changing items in the gem shop, it sells unlimited pick axes and stuff from time to time but that is more convenience then anything.

Sanspoof

Satis1994b14a_ESO wrote: »

I personally dislike having to pay for the "best looking items." I like when my characters look appropriate based on their content experience (best items in the game looking the most "badass" [for the lack of better word]); however, dropping hard earned cash just to achieve that great look seems quite steep. Don't you think, that a p2p system is implemented in games to avoid such situations? To simply avoid any kind of pay wall and have access to every piece of content the game has to offer.

I agree, even on vanity items which a lot of people think it's no big deal to be in a cash shop.
I think collecting nice looking stuff even if they have no gameplay value is a fun goal in a game and would rather be able to earn them by playing than by reaching for a credit card. It's not like we're freeloading in this game.
Now I don't mind mounts in different colours and such, IF we have the option to get something equal in looks and specs in-game (which we do). I don't like it but I can live with it.

At the end of the day though companies are going to charge for as much as their customer base will let them get away with.

Jasstenn

Im all for vanity items, don't get mad, get money.

Ellorra

Satis1994b14a_ESO wrote: »

Is Zenimax this hungry for money?

Zenimax is in this business to make money, period. It's the same with any business that is not a non-profit. They know they have to give us a good gaming experience to get us to keep paying the subscription, but they will do whatever it takes to make the maximum profit.

Decimus_Rex

I see the cash shop as Future proofing in Zeni's eye's anyway

Zeni. knows that the current popular payment model is F2P so they incorporated the shop for later when ESO opens the flood gates for F2p'ers

Then ..

There goes the neighborhood.

Do I like it no !

It's like impending doom or a foreclosure notice, you know some bad JUJU is not far off

Jasstenn

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, Is how it's said.

Satis1994b14a_ESO

As we talked about it:

The Palomino horse will be available for purchase from the official ESO store.

Atthoss

A good question indeed. I don't mind paying a monthly fee (even $15 a month!) for a great game with a good balance in items strength. I don't mind the additional in-game store as long as it is cosmetics (or fun!) only as I don't care much for the overall looks of my characters as long as they're efficient! I wouldn't want it to be a P2W system like may other games though.
See you on the Battlefield!!

Gohlar

Placing any content behind paywalls in a game with a subscription is a little money grubby imo.

Thybrinena

Ingame shop for vanity items is fair game imo. It's the way the genre is developing and we all have to choose whether to spend more money or not. I will gladly spend more money. Then again, me thinking I look cool is not the same as someone else thinking I look cool so having the "best looking" gear in cash shop is a moot point imo. THE most important thing is that ZoS don't allow game changing items, especially if they cannot be gotten ingame. Then we will have a problem.

cherev

Removed

Laura

i'll switch it. You show me a free to play game that regularly updates and doesn't put most of its awesome cosmetic content on the store. You show me one that is AAA quality and keeps the AAA quality updates going. I use to like free to play till I saw what the transitions did to my favorite games. No free to play and if this game ever did go free to play I'd be out.

Felarrond

The game is fun, but they have a lot to fix before I'll consider any long term subscription costs.

A.> The game lacks originality in many ways, it feels like a cookie cutter MMO but without a lot of Genre staple features.
B.> The game is missing too many features for it to be a true MMO, right now it feels like a Single Player game that a bunch of other people have invaded, to me at least.
C.> They've managed to a good portion of their pre-order crowd by turning a 5 day and 3 day headstart into basically a 3.5 day and 1.5 day Headstart. This has probably lost them a good bit of business.
D.> I understand every game has launch bugs, and this has been a pretty smooth launch compared to most MMO launches, however, the majority of the bugs they've tried to squash since launch were present in the last 1 or 2 open betas, that's simply poor response to known issues.
E.> ZoS needs to embrace social media for more reasons, instead of just as a marketing tool. They need to learn to use it to make their customers feel valued by announcing their plans, maintenance schedules, and to give us semi-real-time updates during downtimes to let us know that they're aware that we're (im)patiently waiting for them to complete work.

In the games current form, I probably won't purchase a subscription. If they're able to make a good bit of changes to bring the game up to the modern era and squash the bugs, I'd pay for the game for a while at least.

MaxBat

I have no issue with vanity items, per se, although I'm getting sick of vanity pets and hoping they'll go away (they won't). I won't be buying them, for what that's worth (not a lot).

I would like to spend money on content. More dungeons, new areas, stuff like that. I don't need sixteen pets following me around; I have cats in real life. They're annoying enough.

Armor and weapons with uber stats would suck - and I doubt if it would qualify as "fun items."

For all that, vanity items are easy to make and sell. New content takes time and, dollar for dollar, probably isn't as profitable.

Corithna

Satis1994b14a_ESO wrote: »

So this might just be another rant about the pay to play system that's being implemented; however, I'd like to think how you guys feel about it.

For the record, I love TES series, love ESO (so far) and have no problem paying the $14.99 a month to enjoy this game.

(if you can't contribute to this discussion in a constructive and polite manner, don't bother, go be a troll somewhere else)

From what I've heard, on top of the $14.99 monthly subscription, an in-game store is suppose to be implemented. However, the store is suppose to contain "fun stuff" (Matt Firor in his interview with buffed.de); therefore, it is not going to affect game play in any way, shape or form. Is Zenimax this hungry for money?It's like they're trying to combine World of Warcraft's and Guild Wars' income syste ms and see where it takes them. I personally dislike having to pay for the "best looking items." I like when my characters look appropriate based on their content experience (best items in the game looking the most "badass" [for the lack of better word]); however, dropping hard earned cash just to achieve that great look seems quite steep. Don't you think, that a p2p system is implemented in games to avoid such situations? To simply avoid any kind of pay wall and have access to every piece of content the game has to offer. I would really like to hear from Zenimax themselves regarding this and hear their thought process behind this idea.

Enough of my thoughts, let me hear what you have to say. I understand that some of you will answer with posts such as:

1. If you don't like it, don't play it.
2. I will gladly spend more money for this game due to it's greatness.

Therefore, if you do answer in such manner, I'd like to hear why. Explain yourself.

Let it roll.

I would submit to you the following, if Zenimax or bethesda had wanted to make another buy to play game, why bother with an mmo model? Why not simply replicate the success of skyrim which at the beginning of this year hit the 20 million units sold mark. So why indeed go with an mmo? Well specifically it was to generate a revenue stream that exceeds the cost of both maintaining such a system and the development of new content. In other words it was a good business choice. The timing of this is fairly good as well given the relative tolerance levels in the west generally speaking for micro transactions. Free to play has had it's day, and will certainly have a market for some time to come. But there is also room here for a rebound into a more traditional subscription based service. When you look at the market there are currently very few mmo's that still offer up the quality of service you can only render under this kind of system.

See a need or want in any given market and fulfill that need or want and you'll see success. I really do think that these guys have a far higher then average chance at seeing big numbers from this service for a very long time to come.

Next as far as the in game store is concerned they have very clearly stated that it is for services such as name changes, vanity pets, but not for better looking gear. That's not really hitting a pay wall it's charging for services that can take human interaction(customer service) to make a reality. This isn't about being money hungry or greedy. It's about what the normal mode of business for this industry is standard and monopolizing on such standard services. Profit isn't a bad word, it is in fact the one word that is responsible for this entire industry. Indeed for business as a whole.

SirLee

I do not mind the vanity item store, but I expect for them to make the same items available to subscribers via in game effort. Stores like that are fine for people who want to buy things. But, I prefer to earn my stuff via adventuring. And, I will be very pissed off if the best stuff is cash only on top of the monthly fee to play.