Guild Trader Improvement Ideas

Saccopharynx

There's an old post that popped back up (the auction house one) that I spent forever reading through, and decided to ask a question here in the forums roughly based on that thread.

If you could improve the current Guild Trader system, what would you change/how would you improve it?

Saccopharynx

I'll add my ideas to a separate post here so the main one stays short and sweet.

1) Create some sort of trading hub:
Maybe this is a new location they add into existing older content, maybe this is a brand new place somewhere, but I think having guild traders only located in a key place would solve a lot of the "too difficult to search" issues people have.

Picture either one giant market built to house every guild trader ever, or, one major market in a specific city divided by alliances where every guild under one specific alliance would have theirs listed. Maybe the major market could be added as some sort of underground entrance so a huge chunk of new map doesn't have to be edited, but instead a little door somewhere can be slotted in that leads to this market. Think outlaws refuge but "Dominion/Pact/Covenant Market".

2) Add an in-game search:
If the first idea doesn't work, then add some sort of guild trader searching feature.

3) Take idea 1 but tweak it for solo players:
A couple of NPCs could be put somewhere as a general non-guild related market so people who want to sell something, but don't want to join a guild to do it, can sell through an NPC merchant. Maybe they only get 15 item slots available to them. Maybe it costs more to list items. Something that benefits the solo crowd but doesn't necessarily undermine the guild trader crowd. Maybe this could even be searchable by people's usernames to see what items they're selling (so and so only sells crusty bread would be fun to see).

Those are my 3 ideas!

I_killed_Vivec

"people who want to sell something, but don't want to join a guild to do it, can sell through an NPC merchant"

That's precisely how it works - you might get a rubbish deal because you're selling to the NPC merchant, but that's the price you pay for not joining a guild.

Actions => Consequences

Northwold

MissAethe wrote: »

3) Take idea 1 but tweak it for solo players:
A couple of NPCs could be put somewhere as a general non-guild related market so people who want to sell something, but don't want to join a guild to do it, can sell through an NPC merchant. Maybe they only get 15 item slots available to them. Maybe it costs more to list items. Something that benefits the solo crowd but doesn't necessarily undermine the guild trader crowd. Maybe this could even be searchable by people's usernames to see what items they're selling (so and so only sells crusty bread would be fun to see).

Those are my 3 ideas!

Yes I've been rabbiting on about this since the dawn of time. NPC "guild" traders not tied to guild membership, with higher fees or whatever so they don't compete with guild traders for players who *will* join guilds, would revolutionise access to the economy for those solo players who refuse to join player controlled guilds.

That is not an auction house, it does not change the nature of the trader economy where people have to pop from trader to trader to find stuff, and it does not cannibalise players from the true guild traders because anyone willing to join a player-controlled guild will get better selling conditions.

It simply opens the trading economy up to a set of players who cannot currently use it.

I periodically quit ESO for months to a year at a time. Every time, it is for the same reason: I will not join a player controlled guild, and because of that, making enough gold to buy stuff for my housing habit becomes tedious in the extreme.

LalMirchi

MissAethe wrote: »

I'll add my ideas to a separate post here so the main one stays short and sweet.

1) Create some sort of trading hub:
Maybe this is a new location they add into existing older content, maybe this is a brand new place somewhere, but I think having guild traders only located in a key place would solve a lot of the "too difficult to search" issues people have.

Picture either one giant market built to house every guild trader ever, or, one major market in a specific city divided by alliances where every guild under one specific alliance would have theirs listed. Maybe the major market could be added as some sort of underground entrance so a huge chunk of new map doesn't have to be edited, but instead a little door somewhere can be slotted in that leads to this market. Think outlaws refuge but "Dominion/Pact/Covenant Market".

2) Add an in-game search:
If the first idea doesn't work, then add some sort of guild trader searching feature.

3) Take idea 1 but tweak it for solo players:
A couple of NPCs could be put somewhere as a general non-guild related market so people who want to sell something, but don't want to join a guild to do it, can sell through an NPC merchant. Maybe they only get 15 item slots available to them. Maybe it costs more to list items. Something that benefits the solo crowd but doesn't necessarily undermine the guild trader crowd. Maybe this could even be searchable by people's usernames to see what items they're selling (so and so only sells crusty bread would be fun to see).

Those are my 3 ideas!

Rather bad ideas IMHO

Sakiri

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Northwold

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

Sakiri

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day.

Probably not, but they're not likely to change the current system after ten years.

I always sold my stuff in zone chat when I wasn't in a trade guild. I avoided them in the past because of dues(there's plenty of more fun ways to get trader bid money than mandating X sales a week or X a week in dues, my current trade guild has none and we have a good trader spot in a capital).

Uvi_AUT

For me personally? No improvements necessary. The Tradesystem is good as it is. In fact its the best out of any of the MMOs I play.

Northwold

Sakiri wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day.

Probably not, but they're not likely to change the current system after ten years.

I always sold my stuff in zone chat when I wasn't in a trade guild. I avoided them in the past because of dues(there's plenty of more fun ways to get trader bid money than mandating X sales a week or X a week in dues, my current trade guild has none and we have a good trader spot in a capital).

Yeah I agree there doesn't seem to be any willingness to change. I can see the logic of not moving to an auction house. But I don't see the logic of digging their heels in over introducing any sensible, deliberately crippled variant on guild traders managed by the game itself. It just annoys a segment of the player base and alienates those new players who don't want this system and can easily go play something else.

From the point of view of players who DO use guild traders to trade, the objections from some whenever this topic comes up strike me as poorly thought out and daft. If more players sell (players who did not before), there are more people in the game able to buy stuff from guild traders.

Danikat

I'd like to be able to place buy orders.

If I want to buy something and can't find it for sale, or I don't think the price is reasonable (or I just don't want to be the one hunting around) I can put a listing on the guild store, which would work exactly the same as selling: I specify what I want to buy, how many I want and what I'll pay for it and the gold is held by the store. Then anyone browsing the guild store can look at buy orders and if they have the right item/s they can choose to sell them.

And of course, just like buying, it's entirely their choice. If they think my price is too low or they just don't want to sell they can simply ignore it, and could even list the same item on the same store for the price they want.

Pixiepumpkin

I'd like a central auction house added, but it would work differently in that it would be bid only with a possible buyout price and a price limit of lets say 50000 gold

This way we can sell off less expensive items that new players can use, like recipies or common furniture plans without hogging up precious guild trader slots. Guild trader slots as so expensive that its unfair to list 150-1000g items for new players.

This would also allow for non guild participating players to have a place to sell their goods.

The catch is designing the new system so that it does not interfere with guild traders in any meangingful way. If anything, being able to offload less expensive stuff to a central auction house will benefit guild traders who can focus on selling more expensive or exclusive items.

Both can coexist.

katanagirl1

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

valenwood_vegan

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

Agree. I'm in one of the top 2-3 trading guilds on PC/NA. As hardcore as it gets. Only a fraction of the guild membership engages in guild chat or participates in any meaningful way. Many don't even donate regularly. A quick look at the roster shows that over 10% of the guild sold nothing this week. Some will get kicked if there are promising new apps, but most won't even be kicked. Many many many players cycle in and out constantly as their activity level in the game waxes and wanes - they are always welcomed back if they start trading again.

This is at the most hardcore level. There are so many smaller trading guilds with lower requirements. We have a casual sister guild where basically no one is required to do anything and they won't be kicked as long as they show that they log into the game and sell a thing occasionally. The biggest hoop to jump through is writing something in your application. It's nothing like people make it out to be.

All of that said, I'd personally be fine with ZoS adding some options for people who don't want to get involved in the guild trading system to allow them some limited trading opportunities. As long as it's not done in a way that damages trading guild communities.

Sakiri

And 90% of the time you need to write something in the app to prove you're not a bot.

Northwold

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

It really shouldn't be necessary to justify why people don't do it. They don't do it. Not everyone plays the game the same way. It's not a tiny minority of players, either. If ZOS want to ignore them, that's fine. They always have so far.

I_killed_Vivec

Northwold wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

It really shouldn't be necessary to justify why people don't do it. They don't do it. Not everyone plays the game the same way. It's not a tiny minority of players, either. If ZOS want to ignore them, that's fine. They always have so far.

If you were talking about making all content soloable people would tell you that it's an MMO, you are supposed to play with others.

How is guild trading any different?

If you don't want to join a guild then don't. Nobody is forcing you to, but there are consequences to your decisions.

"That 12 man content, I want to solo it. I don't need to justify why, and I'm not the only one. Change the game so that ALL multiplayer content can be done solo (with a companion, of course). And I want all the best rewards too!"

tomofhyrule

I wouldn't have a problem with a "guildless" trader, but it would need to have some penalties for using, e.g. fewer slots active (like 10-15 max) and a much higher tax. I'd actually support one new guild trader in each of the major 'hub' cities to be one -of these guildless ones
(and as a bonus, that could also serve as a gold sink for guildless traders as well)

The issue with a centralized 'auction house' is that it makes it so much easier for one person to manipulate the market. If someone with a lot of capital (which let's face it, longtime PC players tend to have a lot of gold on hand) could just go to one location and have an addon just buy every single copy of Item X specifically so they could relist them all themselves for a higher price, the centralized location will let them. At least with guild traders all over, you do have to visit a bunch of locations, which gives someone else time to get one.

Case in point: I myself went buying up all the Blackwood treasure maps I could find during the last event because I was trying to complete my Ancestral Akaviri codex (which is a story and gripe for another time, but ZOS never do ancestral leads like that again pls). I probably spent an hour a day running around looking for maps. If it had been central, it'd've taken me all of 5 mins and I'd not have left any for anyone else. I still feel a bit bad that I was buying them all up and not leaving any for anyone.
(in case anyone's wondering, once I did finally get my last one, I gave away my excess maps to guildies or put them back up for sale for less than I paid for them because I was not trying to scalp)

An in-game mechanism to "scry" for certain objects to see if it exists would be a nice thing though, because if you're looking for something rarer, it's tiring to not be able to find it. I'd support that. I still think you should have to go to the place to get it.

phaneub17_ESO

There are addons that can tell you if any guild trader has an item you're searching for without having to go to every one of them and manually search. Adding an NPC who acts as a caller that does the search for X specific item and tells you it's out there and show you the prices listed. You can't buy directly from the caller, but at least you know its out there.

Northwold

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

It really shouldn't be necessary to justify why people don't do it. They don't do it. Not everyone plays the game the same way. It's not a tiny minority of players, either. If ZOS want to ignore them, that's fine. They always have so far.

If you were talking about making all content soloable people would tell you that it's an MMO, you are supposed to play with others.

How is guild trading any different?

If you don't want to join a guild then don't. Nobody is forcing you to, but there are consequences to your decisions.

"That 12 man content, I want to solo it. I don't need to justify why, and I'm not the only one. Change the game so that ALL multiplayer content can be done solo (with a companion, of course). And I want all the best rewards too!"

*Selling* is different. That is the problem. This is not just a little niche of gameplay. This is not just "joining a guild." ZOS took a fundamentally important, basic system for almost any MMO in existence that almost every other MMO in existence (including MMOs MUCH more hardcore than ESO) allows to stand free of other gameplay elements and then put it behind a player-controlled gate. In an MMO they explicitly market to casual and solo players.

But the reason I'm not interested in explaining beyond what I've already said is because these conversations *always* degenerate into people saying "well play the game my way". That becomes unproductive and frustrating for all sides. Different strokes for different folks.

Tommy_The_Gun

MissAethe wrote: »

If you could improve the current Guild Trader system, what would you change/how would you improve it?

I would add an option to also post a "buy request" and "trade request" at guild traders vendor npc.

Buy request would work just like regular sell offer you can post at guild trader, but in reverse - you post what item you want to buy for what price, amount of items etc. Any player (whenever in a guild or not) that will be visiting trading npc will be able to see that offer and if they have required item(s) in their inventory, they will be able to sell it to you (if they will accept your offer that is).

Trade request would be similar to buy request, but you will not pay with gold, but with other item(s) you selected as available for the offer (Example: Trade 1 Hakeijo rune for 1 Potent Nirncrux or 2 Dibellium etc).

My main complain when it comes to trading system in ESO is it is more like "Selling" system. There is no actual trade. You can not barter 1 item for the other or simply buy stuff automatically.

Northwold

tomofhyrule wrote: »

The issue with a centralized 'auction house' is that it makes it so much easier for one person to manipulate the market. If someone with a lot of capital (which let's face it, longtime PC players tend to have a lot of gold on hand) could just go to one location and have an addon just buy every single copy of Item X specifically so they could relist them all themselves for a higher price, the centralized location will let them. At least with guild traders all over, you do have to visit a bunch of locations, which gives someone else time to get one.

Case in point: I myself went buying up all the Blackwood treasure maps I could find during the last event because I was trying to complete my Ancestral Akaviri codex (which is a story and gripe for another time, but ZOS never do ancestral leads like that again pls). I probably spent an hour a day running around looking for maps. If it had been central, it'd've taken me all of 5 mins and I'd not have left any for anyone else. I still feel a bit bad that I was buying them all up and not leaving any for anyone.
(in case anyone's wondering, once I did finally get my last one, I gave away my excess maps to guildies or put them back up for sale for less than I paid for them because I was not trying to scalp)

Agreed. I get why people enjoy going from trader to trader and you can sometimes find weird things or bargains that you would never snatch up at any reasonable price with an auction house. The trader system, it seems, is here to stay and it has its own character.

bmnoble

More listing slots, as it is now you feel the need to prioritize high value stuff, with a lot of lower value stuff, either taking up space or getting deleted.

Maybe make the additional slots price capped, example you get your current 30 slots where you can price the items however you want and another 30 slots where the price of the item listed is limited to 30K per item. That way more low value stuff people still need will be available for sale, without having to delay selling your more high value stuff.

Sheezabeast

Double the amount of items we can list at one time from 30 to 60 so I don't have to be in 3 trading guild out of five total guilds I can be in.

katanagirl1

Northwold wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

Sakiri wrote: »

I don't get the aversion to player controlled guilds.

I'm not a huge fan of the trader guild thing either, preferring centralized markets, but dang.

Does it matter that you get it though (not in a passive aggressive way)? Such players exist, at the end of the day. My own view on it is that I just want to play the game, not mess around with unpredictable interactions with a player controlled system that is such a fundamental part of any MMO that it is ordinarily NOT put in the control of other players.

I want to be able to play the game casually and drop in and out whenever I like. If I want to sell something, I want to have the means to do that without jumping through hoops that simply aren't appropriate for such an important system.

I’ve been in my primary trader guild for many years. I put my stuff in the trader, made my donation, and never used guild chat until I started trials recently. How is that a hassle?

It really shouldn't be necessary to justify why people don't do it. They don't do it. Not everyone plays the game the same way. It's not a tiny minority of players, either. If ZOS want to ignore them, that's fine. They always have so far.

I just described a situation where you could be in a guild and it would not cause you to interact with anyone and you could still sell your stuff and make gold. Is that not what you were asking for?

Just like PvP, if you don’t want to participate then you will miss out on something. That’s just the way it is.

pelle412

Trading hubs would make it much easier for us who buy low and re-sell high. We can make a killing by driving up prices without running around all over the place.

Pixiepumpkin

Trade guild addons need to have their API's removed and all trade addons should be banned, they go against the spirit of what trade guilds are supposed to be.

FlopsyPrince

Northwold wrote: »

From the point of view of players who DO use guild traders to trade, the objections from some whenever this topic comes up strike me as poorly thought out and daft. If more players sell (players who did not before), there are more people in the game able to buy stuff from guild traders.

The core problem is that figuring out a good price (to sell and to buy) is the flaw. Not easy without TTC and such, something not available on consoles.

Why is noting that "daft"?

FlopsyPrince

pelle412 wrote: »

Trading hubs would make it much easier for us who buy low and re-sell high. We can make a killing by driving up prices without running around all over the place.

The fact that you can do that now so easily is part of the reason that the game doesn't work well in this area for so many.

That type of action would still be possible with centralized information, but the lack of that now makes it really hard for many of us. I am all for you making money finding deals, but making that information so hard to find is a major flaw for those not making gold flipping.

Kind of like with homes. Flipping can only support so many until it fails for almost all.

Northwold

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

From the point of view of players who DO use guild traders to trade, the objections from some whenever this topic comes up strike me as poorly thought out and daft. If more players sell (players who did not before), there are more people in the game able to buy stuff from guild traders.

The core problem is that figuring out a good price (to sell and to buy) is the flaw. Not easy without TTC and such, something not available on consoles.

Why is noting that "daft"?

The objections people raise to a game-controlled, deliberately crippled trader to allow players who don't want to use guild traders to trade are daft. They tend to revolve around "I've been playing the game 10 years and it's fine and you would break the game because it wouldn't be the same as what I've been doing for 10 years". Despite the fact it would have no material effect on players who do use guild traders except, potentially, broadening their customer base. There's no substance to the objections, it just ends up as "wasn't like that in my day therefore no and anyway it's just like [insert random completely different gameplay element that is nothing like selling in an MMO, like trials, which have essentially no broader impact on anything else in the game]".

FlopsyPrince

Northwold wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

From the point of view of players who DO use guild traders to trade, the objections from some whenever this topic comes up strike me as poorly thought out and daft. If more players sell (players who did not before), there are more people in the game able to buy stuff from guild traders.

The core problem is that figuring out a good price (to sell and to buy) is the flaw. Not easy without TTC and such, something not available on consoles.

Why is noting that "daft"?

The objections people raise to a game-controlled, deliberately crippled trader to allow players who don't want to use guild traders to trade are daft. They tend to revolve around "I've been playing the game 10 years and it's fine and you would break the game because it wouldn't be the same as what I've been doing for 10 years". Despite the fact it would have no material effect on players who do use guild traders except, potentially, broadening their customer base. There's no substance to the objections, it just ends up as "wasn't like that in my day therefore no and anyway it's just like [insert random completely different gameplay element that is nothing like selling in an MMO, like trials, which have essentially no broader impact on anything else in the game]".

I am not clear on your exact point then. The idea of not wanting to join a trading guild is only a subset of those wanting better tools around the current system. Searching (especially without TTC) is painful. Even TTC is flawed and frequently lists items that are not present, since someone bought them without running TTC.

The inability to find things is a major limitation of the current system, when you are not dealing with stock mats and such. That problem is not "daft" in any way. It is a serious problem people worked around and some use to make lots of gold, but it is quite valid no matter how long it has existed.

Multi-craft was not present for many years, so requesting it may have seemed bad according to your terms, but it was a very good addition. Other things may have been worked around, but would still be worth having.