Please remove the 2-second delay on Daedric Mines

Quackery · January 5

You're made it really, REALLY difficult for magsorcs to fight in tight spaces where the flags are in keeps. We didn't have any other way to counter an onslaught except for the Daedric Mines and the instant burst damage they could cause. Having a 2 second delay on them is just cheating, you're propping up all the other classes and keep on ruining magicka sorcerers! I WANT TO BE ABLE TO HELP ON FLAGS, NOT JUST BY NEGATING AND STANDING THERE LIKE AN IDIOT!!! What even is the meaning of having MINES if they don't go off instantly?? Stop handicapping our class and restore Daedric Mines, PLEASE!!

OtarTheMad · January 6

I completely agree. I miss the old Daedric Mines.

Remiem · January 7

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

olsborg · January 7

Magsorc needs way more help then merely restoring deadric mines, but yes.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 9

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

Remiem · January 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

That's what I had in mind, the version I saw had DC on one bar with Volcanic rune to proc it after placing the mines, and I really only saw people abusing it in BG maps.
But even then, ZOS should have reworked the way mines are positioned in cramped spaces instead of just mangling the skill.

NordSwordnBoard · January 9

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

So, instead of stopping the corner stack by saying "invalid target" or otherwise denying the exploit cast, they wrecked the skill.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 9

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

So, instead of stopping the corner stack by saying "invalid target" or otherwise denying the exploit cast, they wrecked the skill.

I'm not arguing that it was good logic, I'm just sharing what the logic was lol

SandandStars · January 10

Pretty depressing “correction” for an exploit. Doesnt make me feel like a valued customer.

Quackery · January 10

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

This is the first time I ever heard this, and it sounds like really toxic gameplay. HOWEVER, this is something that ZOS should have solved at some point instead of butchering the skill and making it useless in flag fights.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 10

Quackery wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

This is the first time I ever heard this, and it sounds like really toxic gameplay. HOWEVER, this is something that ZOS should have solved at some point instead of butchering the skill and making it useless in flag fights.

Agreed - ZOS does this a lot with exploit-adjacent gameplay (using that term because it wasn't technically an exploit but definitely not intended either). Instead of, you know, fixing the problem, they completely change how something functions.

Turtle_Bot · January 11

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

There was also a PvE reason it got nerfed as well. There was a build starting to become popular in raid comps that would utilize mines for a sustained burst of high DPS on bosses (mostly for execute phase) where the triple mines was outperforming everything else for as long as it could be sustained.

the1andonlyskwex · January 11

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

So, instead of stopping the corner stack by saying "invalid target" or otherwise denying the exploit cast, they wrecked the skill.

This would have been so much worse than what ZOS actually did. Imagine how you would feel every time your mines cast completely failed because you stood 1 pixel too close to a wall, or on a slope that was just a little too steep.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 11

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

So, instead of stopping the corner stack by saying "invalid target" or otherwise denying the exploit cast, they wrecked the skill.

This would have been so much worse than what ZOS actually did. Imagine how you would feel every time your mines cast completely failed because you stood 1 pixel too close to a wall, or on a slope that was just a little too steep.

I agree with this - look what ZOS did to Arcanist's portal after the first PTS. The ability feels absolutely awful to use because every second cast is "Invalid Target"

Jsmalls · January 11

This ability needs to be completely overhauled. From a PvE and PvP perspective this ability is worthless at the moment.

katorga · January 11

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

Funny, that happened to me exactly ONCE, and I still remember thinking how clever it was.

At the same time, I can still two shot players faster than they can respond with NB, right now, and that hasn't been nerfed. I can 2-3 shot entire groups in 2s with my NB, and that hasn't been nerfed. So how is it "clearly broken" for one class to functionally one shot a player, but perfectly fine for another class to do it?

Necrotech_Master · January 11

katorga wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

Funny, that happened to me exactly ONCE, and I still remember thinking how clever it was.

At the same time, I can still two shot players faster than they can respond with NB, right now, and that hasn't been nerfed. I can 2-3 shot entire groups in 2s with my NB, and that hasn't been nerfed. So how is it "clearly broken" for one class to functionally one shot a player, but perfectly fine for another class to do it?

they also still havent done anything about the other potentially trolly maneuver of using a warden frozen gate to yank people off of the alessia bridge lol

i also found that use of the skill clever, but a lot of people hate that

sharquez · January 11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvVOLgFNcO8

(shameless self promo) I should play warden again....

but at the very least mines need a rework, no reason to mess up a staple skill so bad.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 12

katorga wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Remiem wrote: »

Another stupid nerf due to a set that should have never been introduced (Dark Convergence), and I don't even remember people complaining about Mines even with DC.
It should be undone, the skill was always niche and now pretty bad.

This isn't the reason mines were nerfed.

Mines got nerfed because sorcs would wedge themselves into a corner, cast mines so that they all stacked on top of each other, and then silver leash pull someone into every mine at once. Without a cooldown, if you got pulled by the silver leash, you were dead. No counterplay, no time to react, just an instant bomb of damage and death.

Yes, it was gimmicky, but it was also very clearly broken and not how ZOS intended the skill to be used.

Funny, that happened to me exactly ONCE, and I still remember thinking how clever it was.

At the same time, I can still two shot players faster than they can respond with NB, right now, and that hasn't been nerfed. I can 2-3 shot entire groups in 2s with my NB, and that hasn't been nerfed. So how is it "clearly broken" for one class to functionally one shot a player, but perfectly fine for another class to do it?

I don't think it is fine - I'm of the opinion NB shouldn't be able to output as much damage as they do, especially now that they have access to one of the stronger burst heals in the game on top of their already very strong escape tools.

I also don't agree with how ZOS changed mines - but one shots without counterplay (think the inferno heavy DKs, the still-present Tri-Focus exploit in IC, etc.) shouldn't exist.

DaisyRay · January 13

I wish they would change it back too. I love sorc so much, I feel like they have the best skills of any class. They just need a buff in some areas and for zos to stop taking things away,