Requesting option to "opt-out" of Deathmatch Mode for Battlegrounds PvP

Vulkunne · January 2

ZOS,

Due to the fact that most Teams randomly 'cobbled together' do NOT stand any chance whatsoever against a better organized Team, can we please 'opt-out' of Deathmatch games for Battlegrounds PvP?

Usually what happens is you have one Team that's organized, stays together, has heals and everyone else just dies. Seriously. Its hell out there and its gotten so bad I just 'desert' freely now whenever I happen upon DM. If we can choose and perhaps I'm missing something please let me know.

Please also understand that (1) person coming prepared does NOT make up for a Team that either isn't prepared themselves or really like me, do not want to be there. No one stands a chance against an organized Team and there's always one that's got it and I'm never with them lol. So take your shots at me all you like but something is not right here.

Thank you for listening to my request.

ZOS_Hadeostry · January 2

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about Battlegrounds.

Thank you for your understanding

LunaFlora · January 2

yes please.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 2

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Vulkunne · January 2

So this morning, against my better judgement I went back to BGs on my Dk. And of course, was sent straight into a DM.

Full of Arcanists. I'm trying to fight, am constantly under bombardment against Arcanist CC + Fatecarver. And let's not even start with me talking about the Tide King Gaze Ult or all the special effects that completely obstructs my view of what is going on around me, like completely.

The gameplay stops, the fight is over once I get hit with Arcanist CC. Because what happens is everyone goes straight after me, I'm already low on resources and even if I'm not, that CC stops me from basically being able to play the game. Cannot heal, can't block, can't dodge, my build might as well no longer exist while under the Arcanist CC. Between Fatecarver ripping into me and everyone else taking that opportunity to attack I'm dead, like its over and my char is completley useless. No counter and no recovery.

This is not fair, it is not competitive, it is not reasonable gameplay. Although their intention might not be to exploit, Arcanist is exploiting and is over-powered. Make no mistake, I am not wanting to 'gut' the class. However I do not feel this class gives others a sporting chance against it, *especially* when its used in a group.

I've decided to stay with ESO however I refuse to play anymore BGs until this problem gets fixed. And if I do I'm going to bring the cheesiest build I can think of because experience has taught me that is what I can expect to receive in PvP. Thanks Arcanist. My apologies to the groups I deserted in BGs but I hate having my time wasted and we had no chance of getting anywhere with those games anyways.

Urzigurumash · January 2

DK was beyond OP most of 21-23 and there's a Solo Queue, which is what your first post seemed to be about rather than game mode. Maybe Arcanist is the strongest class but I can't imagine DK is too far off.

But of course we all agree Mode Queues should be brought back.

gariondavey · January 2

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

OBJnoob · January 3

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

SandandStars · January 3

I was in a bg the other day where my team started off with only two players, and remained with only two players for the first four or five minutes. It was chaos ball. And we got hammered pretty hard. Eventually my number two dropped out. So I stuck with it for a while, managed to get the ball. A few minutes later a couple people were added in, but I’m the only one on the team, and I’m pretty far behind in points, so after not very long, they dropped out too.

It was actually kind of fun. I think I played pretty well. And I wound up with the third highest individual points. Quite a number of people in chaos ball don’t have the stomach to actually get the ball, and just like to sit back and gank people who are trying to play the objective. Of course it’s fine they can play however they want. I sometimes speculate that for a certain type of player, the possibility of racking up a half dozen deaths in pursuit of winning the game objective is unthinkable. The psychological ramifications abound.

For too many reasons to go into, battlegrounds are a crazy crapshoot these days. If you like consistency, I just don’t think you can expect it from battlegrounds right now. I still enjoy them from time to time. But the same old content & maps are getting incredibly stale.

Vulkunne · January 3

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

Strategy is meaningless if every tactic meets death instantly. In that case it is best to avoid the battle. Which this is not even a battle; maybe more like an execution hah.

But that's the point I'm making is the Arcanist CC is so strong and some players have Fate Carver damage tuned up as much as possible to the point they are wiping out entire groups with ease.

CameraBeardThePirate · January 3

Vulkunne wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

Strategy is meaningless if every tactic meets death instantly. In that case it is best to avoid the battle. Which this is not even a battle; maybe more like an execution hah.

But that's the point I'm making is the Arcanist CC is so strong and some players have Fate Carver damage tuned up as much as possible to the point they are wiping out entire groups with ease.

The Arcanist CC is not strong.

It is buggy to break free, yes. But with just a little bit of practice you should never get stunned by an Arcanist in the first place. The stun is extremely telegraphed and can be blocked by simply tapping block (no stamina or magicka drain at all).

OBJnoob · January 3

Vulkunne wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

Strategy is meaningless if every tactic meets death instantly. In that case it is best to avoid the battle. Which this is not even a battle; maybe more like an execution hah.

But that's the point I'm making is the Arcanist CC is so strong and some players have Fate Carver damage tuned up as much as possible to the point they are wiping out entire groups with ease.

Out of curiosity... Cuz I like a well painted picture...

Are you solo que or group que?

Would you consider yourself good at PvP or not really?

Are you high mmr? Or something else?

Most people, I think, agree with you. They might come from different perspectives-- might have their own agendas, but most of us BG players wish DM and OBJ ques were separated.

BUT. I must say this, just to properly paint the picture: your problem seems to be specifically with Arcanist and/or just getting wrecked by better players as much as it is with Deathmatch.

Do you think your problem could be fixed with a revamp to the MMR system as well as with a separation of ques?

You should only be getting DM about 20% of the time. I'm not entirely clear on why this 20% makes you not even want to try for the 80%. Perhaps there are some other factors, and perhaps you could elaborate?

DrNukenstein · January 3

OBJnoob wrote: »

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

-Build to fight people, instead of cheese objectives
-Accept you are not Superman and work with your team
-Queue solo queue only if you are solo and prone to tilt. It really does make a difference.
-If you see one team clumping and acting like a single organism while your team is not doing that, say something.
-Be the bread, not the meat.

OBJnoob · January 3

DrNukenstein wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

-Build to fight people, instead of cheese objectives
-Accept you are not Superman and work with your team
-Queue solo queue only if you are solo and prone to tilt. It really does make a difference.
-If you see one team clumping and acting like a single organism while your team is not doing that, say something.
-Be the bread, not the meat.

In order for that to be a similar strategy for OP's equal but opposite problem you would have to think the solution the vocal DM crowd came up with is:

- Try to capture objectives

That's not the case. [Snip]

[Snip]

Sadly, when the queue system was no longer to their liking, what they did was just treat every mode as though it were DM after all.

So I ask again, with more clarity this time, how can someone who hates DM and feels as though it's cheesy employ a strategy during DM that suits their OBJ needs?

If there isn't a genuine answer then I think OP has a bigger problem than the DM crowd has. And it also seems a little unfair that, while one solution isn't yet known, the other is essentially to ruin OBJ modes.

So actually I'll amend the original question: How can the OP ruin every DM they're in for those that do enjoy it? An answer to this question would perhaps be even better. An equal and opposite problem needs an equal and opposite solution.

[Edited for bait]

DrNukenstein · January 3

OBJnoob wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

-Build to fight people, instead of cheese objectives
-Accept you are not Superman and work with your team
-Queue solo queue only if you are solo and prone to tilt. It really does make a difference.
-If you see one team clumping and acting like a single organism while your team is not doing that, say something.
-Be the bread, not the meat.

In order for that to be a similar strategy for OP's equal but opposite problem you would have to think the solution the vocal DM crowd came up with is:

- Try to capture objectives

That's not the case. [Snip]

[Snip]

Sadly, when the queue system was no longer to their liking, what they did was just treat every mode as though it were DM after all.

So I ask again, with more clarity this time, how can someone who hates DM and feels as though it's cheesy employ a strategy during DM that suits their OBJ needs?

If there isn't a genuine answer then I think OP has a bigger problem than the DM crowd has. And it also seems a little unfair that, while one solution isn't yet known, the other is essentially to ruin OBJ modes.

So actually I'll amend the original question: How can the OP ruin every DM they're in for those that do enjoy it? An answer to this question would perhaps be even better. An equal and opposite problem needs an equal and opposite solution.

To recognize DM as an objective, and an objective you might land on. Even if it isn't DM, you'll have to fight if it's a good match up. If it was a good match up, you didn't help much with your 3 block cost and swift jewels.

It's the inverse of the DMer problem. How do you get good fights when it isn't DM? Recognize that the objectives are where fights will gravitate (except crazy king, that mode's stupid) and go there with your team where you may get into a fight with another team that's thinking the same way. How do you play objective, when the objective is kill? Do the same thing, but without flags/balls to tell you where to go.

Without getting into problems against certain classes/builds, team imbalances, personal problems, etc... that's the strategy.

[Edited quote]

OBJnoob · January 4

Sorry, no, you're still off the mark. You're giving great advice for being mature, making the best of things, and how to play DM.

But that's not the question.

As you (and I,) have said, this is the inverse of the DM problem. Equal but opposite. Your solution is heavy on the opposite and light on the equal.

OP already seems mature. They don't like it so they stopped playing it. I'm just asking for purely academic purposes.

React · January 4

Or better yet, they can remove all the objective modes.

OBJnoob · January 4

React wrote: »

Or better yet, they can remove all the objective modes.

I don't see how that would solve THE problem. I capitalized "the" to put emphasis on the person who made the thread and the problem they have.

I don't think they would like that.

[Snip]

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Vulkunne · January 4

OBJnoob wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

Strategy is meaningless if every tactic meets death instantly. In that case it is best to avoid the battle. Which this is not even a battle; maybe more like an execution hah.

But that's the point I'm making is the Arcanist CC is so strong and some players have Fate Carver damage tuned up as much as possible to the point they are wiping out entire groups with ease.

Out of curiosity... Cuz I like a well painted picture...

Are you solo que or group que?

Would you consider yourself good at PvP or not really?

Are you high mmr? Or something else?

Most people, I think, agree with you. They might come from different perspectives-- might have their own agendas, but most of us BG players wish DM and OBJ ques were separated.

BUT. I must say this, just to properly paint the picture: your problem seems to be specifically with Arcanist and/or just getting wrecked by better players as much as it is with Deathmatch.

Do you think your problem could be fixed with a revamp to the MMR system as well as with a separation of ques?

You should only be getting DM about 20% of the time. I'm not entirely clear on why this 20% makes you not even want to try for the 80%. Perhaps there are some other factors, and perhaps you could elaborate?

So with this topic aside, I don't really think there's any need to make this about me. I'm not being elitist or playing a role when I say I've been with ESO for many years and engaged in PvP as well. I remember us all going thru a similar phase with the dreaded "Ice Warden" groups in BGs in the two years after Warden came out.

That said I am always revamping and revising things. But with the CP changes there is really only so far I can push things one way or another. When setting a goal for one of my builds it seems to boil down to me asking the question... what am I willing to lose so I can keep something else. But I know there are many different builds out there anyways so I digress.

I hope Arcanist can be improved as time moves along however I also wonder if maybe ZOS needs to look at group structure again. Lots of people complain in Cyrodiil about groups being too small and then when DC Ball Group

comes calling during Prime Time the lag is so intense it feels like I'm experiencing a car crash in slow motion or something. Fun but harrible.

OBJnoob · January 4

Okay that's cool-- no, I don't want to make it about you specifically. Thinking Arcanist is too strong is a fine opinion to have. Not sure if I agree or not but they are strong enough where I can understand the thought.

And I've often said that few things suck more than getting wrecked in a DM. You get wrecked in an OBJ mode and it's probably over fast and/or you can go to the other side of the map and maybe have more fun/success. You get wrecked in a DM and you're just getting wrecked until it's over. It can be your fault... Your teams fault... the MMR systems fault... Doesn't really matter cuz there you are.

gariondavey · January 4

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

This is fallacious and honestly I don't know why you said this to me.

If people can opt out of objective modes then objective modes will only have objective players.

If people can opt out of dm then objective modes will still have dm players and the entire situation is not resolved.

The first option will fix the problem. The second will not.

LunaFlora · January 5

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

This is fallacious and honestly I don't know why you said this to me.

If people can opt out of objective modes then objective modes will only have objective players.

If people can opt out of dm then objective modes will still have dm players and the entire situation is not resolved.

The first option will fix the problem. The second will not.

being able to opt out of objectives will still put objective players in deathmatch so it wouldn't fix the problem at alll.

would be better if we can opt out of deathmatch and objective modes.
or just have separate queues for deathmatch and objectives.
so people can choose what kind of battlegrounds they want.

gariondavey · January 5

LunaFlora wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It's almost like they should've done this when they had DM only queue. Instead, the "random" queue pulled from the DM only queue when it couldn't fill, making nearly every match a DM in both queues.

Bring back DM only queue, and separate the queues so that the non-DM queue never gets pulled into a DM.

Exactly this.

And for OP: there is a lot more of us who would prefer to "opt out" of the objective modes instead

And most of you have found a way to do that, haven't you? Thus proving there is in fact fighting in OBJ modes. Because while you may choose to focus on it, you didn't invent it. You didn't BRING it with you. It was there all along.

What similar strategy can OP employ in their equal but opposite predicament?

This is fallacious and honestly I don't know why you said this to me.

If people can opt out of objective modes then objective modes will only have objective players.

If people can opt out of dm then objective modes will still have dm players and the entire situation is not resolved.

The first option will fix the problem. The second will not.

being able to opt out of objectives will still put objective players in deathmatch so it wouldn't fix the problem at alll.

would be better if we can opt out of deathmatch and objective modes.
or just have separate queues for deathmatch and objectives.
so people can choose what kind of battlegrounds they want.

The objective of deathmatch is deathmatch

Anyway, I've been a long time advocate of split queues where dm isn't included in random.
My point is that if the dm only crowd can opt out of objective matches it will be much more of a fix than if objective players can opt out of dm.
The majority of players who play bgs consistently prefer dm.
The majority of game modes are not dm.