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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

Code of Conduct 2.3

Aerin
Aerin
✭✭✭
In its Code of Conduct, Zos stands firmly against all forms of toxicity, discrimination, and similar behaviors. [snip]

If the Code of Conduct explicitly prohibits discrimination and toxicity, how can Zos allow these behaviors?

z0bei3rovmnm.png



https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/code-of-conduct
2.3 You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking age, race, color, disability, sexual orientation, national origin, religion, lifestyle, pregnancy, gender or any other personally identifying factors protected category under applicable law. You may at no time share or refer to personal information of another person, account name, persona or avatar using ZeniMax or its affiliates. We encourage you to share feedback, suggestion, and requests with us, but we expect all of our users to refrain from abusive and disruptive behavior or resorting to demands or threats. Threats of real-life violence, in particular, are something we take very seriously and do not tolerate

[edited for bashing]
Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 26, 2023 2:32PM
Necromancer in ESO = Thanks for your help! Now, pay the bounty for using your necromancer skills to make quests and for being foolish enough to pay for this class!
  • RealLoveBVB
    RealLoveBVB
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    Facepalm
  • thorwyn
    thorwyn
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    ✭✭✭
    Not sure what your screenshot has to do with CP or combat metrics. The F guy obviously had 2 other dd's from another guild joining, so he decided to give them the slots. That kind of stuff happens all day long everywhere, regardless of add ons or whatever. What part exactly was a violation of the CoC you quoted?
    Or maybe it's that I realised that it is true
    No one's really there fighting for you in the last garrison
    No one except yourself that is, no one except you
    You are the one who's got your back 'til the last deed's done
  • tmbrinks
    tmbrinks
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This would be like suing a company for discrimination because they hired somebody instead of you while they had a better resume.
    Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    The Unchained - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger
    60,005 achievement points
  • KS_Amt38
    KS_Amt38
    ✭✭✭
    Just curious, do you assume that there is an addon which shows your dps to another people before even running a group content?
  • ClowdyAllDay
    ClowdyAllDay
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    low cp dont qualify for vet dungeons
  • Tenthirty2
    Tenthirty2
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    Oh lawd >.<
    • "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs - horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
    • "When my time comes, I will smile. And that will be all." -Sir Nathain Galien
    • IGN: TenThirty2 (PC/PS: NA, PC/PS: EU)
  • SkaraMinoc
    SkaraMinoc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Champion points gives you lots of DPS and you don't have them. Try leveling up first before Vet DLC hard mode.

    Otherwise, you cause much stress and frustration for your group when you keep dying on the last boss.

    Edited by SkaraMinoc on December 25, 2023 2:30PM
    PC NA
  • Drammanoth
    Drammanoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    [snip]

    OP, relax.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2023 5:03PM
    My wishlist for ESO
    I.Skills:
    >>weapons: Polearms, Unarmed, Crossbow

    >>Sorc's Twilight - perched animation

    >>a skill line - a guild having this - to enable us to increase % gold gain for donating Ornate gear (another gold sink in order to gain more pennies - but over time it would pay off)

    II.Overland Mechanics
    >>tree climing in Grahtwood / Malabal Tor / Greenshade, etc. (with tall trees)

    >>rock climbing in Glenumbra / Rivenspire / Stonefalls, etc. (with tall peaks)

    >>new skill lines - Adventure (enable climbing, increase flora and fauna harvesting chances)

    III.CP 2.0
    >>Craft Tree development

    III.Replayable content in overland
    >>pocket rifts to Oblivion - eg. to Vaermina's in Stormhaven, Boethiah's in Deshaan, Hircine's in the Rift OR in Bankgorai, etc. to get Daedric Sets relevant to the Prince, something like Oblivion rifts in Blackwood / the Deadlands

    IV.Geography
    >>Pyandonea - we had some quests WITH Maormer (Summerset, High Isle) - maybe we could meet them there? Poke poke, nudge nudge, wink wink, eh ZOS?

    V.Other
    (the ideas are also inspired by other Forum Users' posts)
    >>pet battles! We collect SO MANY pets, and yet there are just a cosmetic. What a HUGE potential lies within those tiny beats!

    >>ASOC - a new server in Asia and Oceania. If people have a bad ping there, it would be great if they had a server reaching their places more easily. And hey, it would make THREE servers, not two.

    >>possibility to dye barding

    >>display the dialogue options so that we can see which answer the NPC is reacting to

    >>a way to make Overland more challenging - for those who want
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    ✭✭✭
    1. No add-on needed to see a players CP.
    2. Not possible to see other player's dps before the fight even started. I don't know about a soothsaying add-on.
    3. The provided screenshot doesn't proof any violation of CoC.
    [snip]
    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on December 25, 2023 5:10PM
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • valenwood_vegan
    valenwood_vegan
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    Yeah sorry... the CoC does not require other players to include you in their group.
  • Aerin
    Aerin
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    CoC 2.3 "... or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. ..."

    When other players add you to the in-game party but kick you only because you're CP500+/- , is not "stalking"? Doesn't "cause discomfort"? Doesn't "disrupt another user’s experience"?

    Necromancer in ESO = Thanks for your help! Now, pay the bounty for using your necromancer skills to make quests and for being foolish enough to pay for this class!
  • Braffin
    Braffin
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    ✭✭✭
    Aerin wrote: »
    CoC 2.3 "... or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. ..."

    When other players add you to the in-game party but kick you only because you're CP500+/- , is not "stalking"? Doesn't "cause discomfort"? Doesn't "disrupt another user’s experience"?

    1. No, it's not. Nobody is oblieged to add a specific player to their party.
    2. Your claims aren't supported by the screenshot you provided. The player in question clearly stated, that they were running with 2 mates from another guild. The only one talking about CP were you.

    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • ESO_player123
    ESO_player123
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aerin wrote: »
    CoC 2.3 "... or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience. ..."

    When other players add you to the in-game party but kick you only because you're CP500+/- , is not "stalking"? Doesn't "cause discomfort"? Doesn't "disrupt another user’s experience"?

    Stalking usually means repetitive action. Did this happen multiple times or was it just one time kick?
  • valenwood_vegan
    valenwood_vegan
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    Another player can form a group to run whatever content they want with (or without) whoever they want. It sucks to not be included, but it happens. People often ask if anyone wants to join their group in multiple guilds / other chats / and get multiple responses - group size is limited and it may not even be *possible* to include everyone who responds.

    In the provided screenshot, the other player hasn't even made some kind of rude or mean comment.

    Nor is there any evidence of stalking provided (to "harass or persecute with unwanted and obsessive attention." Or from a legal standpoint, "the act or crime of willfully and repeatedly following or harassing another person in circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to fear injury or death especially because of express or implied threats.").

    I don't understand the problem.

    This isn't elementary school recess where the teacher is going to step in and tell the other kids on the playground to include everybody.

    I would suggest perhaps starting your own group, which you will then be in control of?
    Edited by valenwood_vegan on December 26, 2023 12:09AM
  • Soarora
    Soarora
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    ✭✭
    You were not kicked from the group nor was your cp at fault here. You're not in the group until you've gotten confirmation you're in... so you were not kicked. The other player said the group filled. It happens. It happens to me too, it's no problem. I doubt people are going to take the time to open the guild roster and check your CP before adding you to the group. Help is help.
    PC/NA Dungeoneer (Tank/DPS/Heal), Trialist (DPS/Tank/Heal), and amateur Battlegrounder (DPS) with a passion for The Elder Scrolls lore
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Facepalm

    I fail to see any discrimination or toxicity. They clearly found players from their guild which was likely a preferred guild or happened to X up just before they were whispered by a third player here.

    CP seems to have been suggested but does not seem to be the issue based on what is presented.

    There is no unwanted messaging. There is nothing to cause distress as any player is fully free to choose who they will group.
    Nothing in the TOS forces a player to group with another player for any reason.

    If anyone thinks this situation demonstrates a violation of the TOS then report it to Zenimax. If they see something they will do something. Otherwise, they will move on. Zenimax is the party who decides if it is a violation of the TOS.

  • kevkj
    kevkj
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    This post is causing me discomfort that's for sure.
  • zaria
    zaria
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amottica wrote: »
    Facepalm

    I fail to see any discrimination or toxicity. They clearly found players from their guild which was likely a preferred guild or happened to X up just before they were whispered by a third player here.

    CP seems to have been suggested but does not seem to be the issue based on what is presented.

    There is no unwanted messaging. There is nothing to cause distress as any player is fully free to choose who they will group.
    Nothing in the TOS forces a player to group with another player for any reason.

    If anyone thinks this situation demonstrates a violation of the TOS then report it to Zenimax. If they see something they will do something. Otherwise, they will move on. Zenimax is the party who decides if it is a violation of the TOS.
    This, it might just be that known guild mates are way way less likely to drop an group than randoms.
    Now I say its bad form to kick people because of this, leaving and joining another group even if two is better.

    Grinding just make you go in circles.
    Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.
  • Drammanoth
    Drammanoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, I overdid last time.

    So, now I will write something constructive.

    This case is not about anyone's feelings. Someone felt discomfort, or felt stalked - this is not the same as actually experiencing stalking.

    If this happened one time, it happened. Block the person and continue the fun.
    My wishlist for ESO
    I.Skills:
    >>weapons: Polearms, Unarmed, Crossbow

    >>Sorc's Twilight - perched animation

    >>a skill line - a guild having this - to enable us to increase % gold gain for donating Ornate gear (another gold sink in order to gain more pennies - but over time it would pay off)

    II.Overland Mechanics
    >>tree climing in Grahtwood / Malabal Tor / Greenshade, etc. (with tall trees)

    >>rock climbing in Glenumbra / Rivenspire / Stonefalls, etc. (with tall peaks)

    >>new skill lines - Adventure (enable climbing, increase flora and fauna harvesting chances)

    III.CP 2.0
    >>Craft Tree development

    III.Replayable content in overland
    >>pocket rifts to Oblivion - eg. to Vaermina's in Stormhaven, Boethiah's in Deshaan, Hircine's in the Rift OR in Bankgorai, etc. to get Daedric Sets relevant to the Prince, something like Oblivion rifts in Blackwood / the Deadlands

    IV.Geography
    >>Pyandonea - we had some quests WITH Maormer (Summerset, High Isle) - maybe we could meet them there? Poke poke, nudge nudge, wink wink, eh ZOS?

    V.Other
    (the ideas are also inspired by other Forum Users' posts)
    >>pet battles! We collect SO MANY pets, and yet there are just a cosmetic. What a HUGE potential lies within those tiny beats!

    >>ASOC - a new server in Asia and Oceania. If people have a bad ping there, it would be great if they had a server reaching their places more easily. And hey, it would make THREE servers, not two.

    >>possibility to dye barding

    >>display the dialogue options so that we can see which answer the NPC is reacting to

    >>a way to make Overland more challenging - for those who want
  • Aerenthir
    Aerenthir
    ✭✭✭
    This is just the OP assumption that it is because of CP. He asked, they answered with " No, found other guild members " ... Sounds like someone is just unhappy and cries wolf.

    He even whispered with a proper apology. Just another thread that will fade out pretty fast or get locked due to non constructive nature.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Amottica
    Amottica
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    zaria wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Facepalm

    I fail to see any discrimination or toxicity. They clearly found players from their guild which was likely a preferred guild or happened to X up just before they were whispered by a third player here.

    CP seems to have been suggested but does not seem to be the issue based on what is presented.

    There is no unwanted messaging. There is nothing to cause distress as any player is fully free to choose who they will group.
    Nothing in the TOS forces a player to group with another player for any reason.

    If anyone thinks this situation demonstrates a violation of the TOS then report it to Zenimax. If they see something they will do something. Otherwise, they will move on. Zenimax is the party who decides if it is a violation of the TOS.
    This, it might just be that known guild mates are way way less likely to drop an group than randoms.
    Now I say its bad form to kick people because of this, leaving and joining another group even if two is better.

    I agree with your comments except that when a group is just forming it is very different than once it gets started.

    I will note that this thread is not really about that. It is about violating the code of conduct with discrimination, toxicity, causing distress to another user, and stalking.

    I do not see any of that in the SS provided. I just see an apology for the inconvenience. I do not see a mention of being kicked from the group in chat which I think is a system message that appears in such cases (might be wrong as I do not get kicked from groups).

  • NoticeMeArkay
    NoticeMeArkay
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    The 'General' section looks a lot different during the holidays, sweet Jesus.
  • SilverBride
    SilverBride
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even if it was because of low CP (which there is absolutely no evidence of) that would still be a valid reason not to include someone. Groups have a right to choose players that have the skills and gear etc. to help the group succeed.
    PCNA
  • Surak73
    Surak73
    ✭✭✭✭
    Of course it's not toxicity, discrimination or stalking.

    You are not entitled to participate in any group created by any other player for any content. Whoever creates the group chooses the objectives, the style of play and also the minimum cp required. Have you ever seen the ZOS group finder? There is explicitly a space for indicating the minimum cp...
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This "F" person was nothing but nice. Some people don't even bother giving an explanation when a group is full and someone else wants to join. They just go do the content. This person was nice enough to give you the real explanation, two people from another guild joined instead. And they also apologized to you, just to try to clear up any bad feelings, even though it wasn't necessary at all. I don't understand where you got it was about CP from. And I don't like that that it was made out to be about CP in that guild chat or on here, because it is not what F stated at all. I think that F handled things quite gracefully and nice, actually. There were only 2 dps spots available and 3 people wanted in, someone was going to be disappointed. Nobody is part of a group until they actually get confirmation they'll be joining, so this person did not kick you. They also did not make it about CP.


    Also, no, it's not discrimination to not include someone with low CP. CP is an actual part of the power level of a character, and content gets much easier the more power there is. That is something directly related to your ability to perform in a dungeon. It's not the same as homophobia, racism, sexism, xenophobia, religious bigotry, etc.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on December 26, 2023 12:23AM
  • ClowdyAllDay
    ClowdyAllDay
    ✭✭✭
    you must be this tall to ride this ride. ESO has minimum requirements in level before one can enter some content, esp vet dungeons. that's what i was referring to. That was an assumption i made.

    Seems like the consensus is you never got into the group and that appears like the truth based o the screen shot.
  • Kusto
    Kusto
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure what's up with the CP this and that. Alot of people assume that high CP is needed for certain content. CP means nothing. It only shows how much have you grinded. Dungeons are full of high CP players who stand in corner and spam bow light attacks.
  • MidniteOwl1913
    MidniteOwl1913
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kusto wrote: »
    Not sure what's up with the CP this and that. Alot of people assume that high CP is needed for certain content. CP means nothing. It only shows how much have you grinded. Dungeons are full of high CP players who stand in corner and spam bow light attacks.

    CP is a participation prize and means just about that much. I don't know why people seem to place so much value on it.

    Yeah, I've 2000 CP I've been around a while. I still have never done a trial and not much vet content. I'm retired and I just play every day...



    Edited by MidniteOwl1913 on December 26, 2023 4:51AM
    PS5/NA
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kusto wrote: »
    Not sure what's up with the CP this and that. Alot of people assume that high CP is needed for certain content. CP means nothing. It only shows how much have you grinded. Dungeons are full of high CP players who stand in corner and spam bow light attacks.

    CP is a participation prize and means just about that much. I don't know why people seem to place so much value on it.

    Yeah, I've 2000 CP I've been around a while. I still have never done a trial and not much vet content. I'm retired and I just play every day...



    It's not a participation prize, it's a tool. Yes, tools are only as useful as the person using it. But, your potential at completing a task remains higher with the appropriate tools than with none. CP adds passive power to your character. So, if the only thing you have to go by is two players are X CP, and you know nothing of their gear, skill, playstyle, etc, it's better to go with the person with the higher CP. Because at least that's passive power you know they have.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on December 26, 2023 5:13AM
  • Drammanoth
    Drammanoth
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh oh, and also, as far as CP goes, remember that the Craft Tree has not been tampered with.

    It meas that ZOS can potentially tamper with it in the future. Sooo it's good to have more CP rather than less.
    My wishlist for ESO
    I.Skills:
    >>weapons: Polearms, Unarmed, Crossbow

    >>Sorc's Twilight - perched animation

    >>a skill line - a guild having this - to enable us to increase % gold gain for donating Ornate gear (another gold sink in order to gain more pennies - but over time it would pay off)

    II.Overland Mechanics
    >>tree climing in Grahtwood / Malabal Tor / Greenshade, etc. (with tall trees)

    >>rock climbing in Glenumbra / Rivenspire / Stonefalls, etc. (with tall peaks)

    >>new skill lines - Adventure (enable climbing, increase flora and fauna harvesting chances)

    III.CP 2.0
    >>Craft Tree development

    III.Replayable content in overland
    >>pocket rifts to Oblivion - eg. to Vaermina's in Stormhaven, Boethiah's in Deshaan, Hircine's in the Rift OR in Bankgorai, etc. to get Daedric Sets relevant to the Prince, something like Oblivion rifts in Blackwood / the Deadlands

    IV.Geography
    >>Pyandonea - we had some quests WITH Maormer (Summerset, High Isle) - maybe we could meet them there? Poke poke, nudge nudge, wink wink, eh ZOS?

    V.Other
    (the ideas are also inspired by other Forum Users' posts)
    >>pet battles! We collect SO MANY pets, and yet there are just a cosmetic. What a HUGE potential lies within those tiny beats!

    >>ASOC - a new server in Asia and Oceania. If people have a bad ping there, it would be great if they had a server reaching their places more easily. And hey, it would make THREE servers, not two.

    >>possibility to dye barding

    >>display the dialogue options so that we can see which answer the NPC is reacting to

    >>a way to make Overland more challenging - for those who want
This discussion has been closed.