How can I turn my DDs to fake tanks or healer for even faster daily random dungeons?

Luckylancer

I used to use pale order ring and I slotted a sing taunt to taunt bosses. After the pale order nerf it is not possible so I wonder if anyone else have a good idea abot sets or skills than can turn a DD to tank or healer with minimal damage lose.

I wonder about how tormentor set on jewelery and weapon +DD WW would be effective as a fake tank. Do you have any other ideas?

LunaFlora

please don't fake role.

edited to add:
if you want minimal damage loss, be a damage dealer?

tanks and healers do not focus on dealing damage at all.
it isn't enough to just taunt a boss or heal your group every minute.

providing buffs like courage, resolve, force, and extra recovery is something tanks and healers do too.

and if you queue for a random dungeon you can get literally any of them.
plus any kind of player unless you use the group finder.

it may take a few minutes but we have the group finder now, why not just create a group for a random and not attempt to fake a support role?

Luckylancer

LunaFlora wrote: »

please don't fake role.

edited to add:
if you want minimal damage loss, be a damage dealer?

I dont want to wait que time. I want to clear dungeon as 3 or 4 DDs. I find group finder bit too slow. Clearing 5-6 random dungeon on different alts takes time so I want to do it fast while not making people die and watch me kill bosses while they are dead.

Taunting, keeping the boss at one place and not dying are bare minimum for tanking. Keeping people alive is bare minimum for healing. Is there a less damage loosy way of doing this on a DD?

LunaFlora

Luckylancer wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

please don't fake role.

edited to add:
if you want minimal damage loss, be a damage dealer?

I dont want to wait que time. I want to clear dungeon as 3 or 4 DDs. I find group finder bit too slow. Clearing 5-6 random dungeon on different alts takes time so I want to do it fast while not making people die and watch me kill bosses while they are dead.

Taunting, keeping the boss at one place and not dying are bare minimum for tanking. Keeping people alive is bare minimum for healing. Is there a less damage loosy way of doing this on a DD?

you can make a tank or heal build.
if you only want to provide the bare minimum, please don't.

not dying as a tank kinda requires using sets that tanks use so you have for example more health recovery, resistance, and maximum health.
using champion point abilities like
Duelist's Rebuff and Enduring Resolve is pretty useful too

you're in a dungeon with a group and if you queue for a random dungeon you don't know how experienced or prepared other people are.

please make a tank or heal build if you want less queue time or wait in line.

colossalvoids

Depends solely on your personal abilities, for one taunt/pull is enough and others need extra mitigation and shields. I used to slot inner fire and silver leash changing nothing else, optimised dds usually have more than enough health and self healing to resist "one shots" in normals when blocked. On a class that lack self healing whilst doing damage a hot ability wound be a good consideration, or leech CP node at the very least. Also that one node that gives you a ton of HR depending on your ultimate amount, it's probably outheals everything in normal content still.

Edit: sugar skulls food is also great for that one.

Soarora

Fake healing is pretty easy, just slot echoing vigor and some burst heal you can use to heal people. Fake tanking, bring the morph of inner fire that lets you do more damage. If you wanna be fancy bring a chain as well. Burst heal you can use through block probably a good idea too, though I’m not sure how bad normal dungeons are to fake tank as the only dungeon I remember fake tanking at lvl 50 is nFG1/vFG1.

Soarora

LunaFlora wrote: »

tanks and healers do not focus on dealing damage at all.
it isn't enough to just taunt a boss or heal your group every minute.

I understand your point and I don’t like fakes either if they’re not faking correctly but healers DO have a focus on dealing damage, that is part of their job, especially in dungeons. Healing, buffing, and debuffing come before dealing damage but especially in normal dungeons, doing damage is a good idea. My warden healer runs shalks and sometimes frost reach in dungeons for this reason. If everyones healed, buffed, and debuffed… continuing to overheal is a waste of time.

I also try to do damage on a tank if its a normal dungeon or otherwise I’m not blocking or if the boss is almost dead. Its a sad amount of damage but I do be spam stabbing the boss.

Braffin

colossalvoids wrote: »

Depends solely on your personal abilities, for one taunt/pull is enough and others need extra mitigation and shields. I used to slot inner fire and silver leash changing nothing else, optimised dds usually have more than enough health and self healing to resist "one shots" in normals when blocked. On a class that lack self healing whilst doing damage a hot ability wound be a good consideration, or leech CP node at the very least. Also that one node that gives you a ton of HR depending on your ultimate amount, it's probably outheals everything in normal content still.

Edit: sugar skulls food is also great for that one.

^Basically this.

Slot a taunt and whatever you personally think is necessary to stay alive and you're good to go.

If we talk about rnd, taunt+vigor should do the trick in most cases.

Braffin

Soarora wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

tanks and healers do not focus on dealing damage at all.
it isn't enough to just taunt a boss or heal your group every minute.

I understand your point and I don’t like fakes either if they’re not faking correctly but healers DO have a focus on dealing damage, that is part of their job, especially in dungeons. Healing, buffing, and debuffing come before dealing damage but especially in normal dungeons, doing damage is a good idea. My warden healer runs shalks and sometimes frost reach in dungeons for this reason. If everyones healed, buffed, and debuffed… continuing to overheal is a waste of time.

I also try to do damage on a tank if its a normal dungeon or otherwise I’m not blocking or if the boss is almost dead. Its a sad amount of damage but I do be spam stabbing the boss.

I basically agree, but would go a step further: Every percentage a healer is overhealing (without doing so to proc SPC of course) is technically a wasted opportunity. Same goes for every unnecessary tank action (a blunt example: Using magma as DK tank where blocking would be sufficient).

It's quite similar for buffs and debuffs: If those earn the group higher group-dmg, they should be used. If the group-dmg is higher if tank/healer is helping by dpsing (for example because dds lack to maintain good dps), buffs and debuffs have lower priority.

Veinblood1965

The OP has a point, most of the normal dungeons can be cleared with just DD with the exception of a few. Probably why in those dungeons you see the "tank" leave right away.

AlterBlika

I just slot fighters guild's pull that also taunts. For normals you don't need to be defensive, cp passive mitigations should be enough. I use pull instead of undaunted taunt because with group it's easier to kill trash packs this way, plus I play master 2h so even I benefit from it. I play stamnb so I always have 2 heals at a time (bow proc and leaching strikes), so you should have something too. As I mentioned earlier, I also use master 2h with brawler that adds tons of survivability without significant dps loss. The rest is dps sets.

You'd better know what you're doing though. I can solo vDLC dungeons, so I kinda don't even need to taunt since I'll finish the dungeon by myself anyway, but you'd better use it and not die, so you don't insult people.

If you can solo content by yourself (without a companion healer/tank) then just slot a taunt and you're good to go.

AlterBlika

colossalvoids wrote: »

optimised dds usually have more than enough health and self healing to resist "one shots" in normals when blocked.

I find blocking to be rudimentary on stamina classes since you can just dodge the attack in almost all cases. Especially with groups, you can lose a lot of hp and die afterwards and therefore wipe the group. Not talking about tanking, there blocking is all the way

AlterBlika

LunaFlora wrote: »

not dying as a tank kinda requires using sets that tanks use so you have for example more health recovery, resistance, and maximum health.
using champion point abilities like
Duelist's Rebuff and Enduring Resolve is pretty useful too

Tanks use support sets, not selfish sets, though.

tsaescishoeshiner

For NORMAL dungeons, I think that capable fake tanks actually improve everyone's experience and queue times, but you have some minimum expectations in order to have a successful run that isn't a headache for your teammates.

For normal, the only expectation is that you taunt and stay alive. Grouping up the enemies is nice but not necessary. If too many enemies or big enemies attack your DPS and healers, you'll get complaints AND slow the run down by slowing down DPS and distracting healers.

If you also get a fake healer, you'll tear through easy dungeons but might actually fail harder ones, especially DLC dungeons. Build to keep yourself alive while damaging, like in vMA or vet Vateshran. Yes, your DPS will be lower than otherwise, but maybe not if you group the enemies into your AoE.

If you have a taunt, Silver Leash, and an AoE slow (ie caltrops) or immobilize, you should be good. Add heals as necessary—it'll cut your DPS depending on class and build, but that's fine for a tank. My squishy DPS builds can solo most normal DLC dungeon bosses, so you just need ways to not die and not let the mobs run all over the place.

I wouldn't recommend werewolf with Tormenter because sometimes you'll want to taunt from ranged and not have to jump all over the area to taunt enemies. That said, it would probably work for the easier dungeons.

M0ntie

If you're doing normal dungeons and you know how to be a healer and a dd there is no reason why you can't do a decent amount of damage and heal. I'd recommend ensuring you have a heal over time and a spam heal. Keep your HOT up and it should stop most people from dying too quickly and you can do a few spam heals when needed. I would ensure that you have an extra heal that you can slot if your group needs more healing. Most classes have enough class heals that you don't need to run a Resto staff.
I'd suggest running more mag regen food than you would with a straight dps because healing uses more mag.

Memo to people who say every over heal is a waste - healing in ESO relies upon HoTs. If there is a burst of damage, you can't react in time and spam enough heals to save everyone. Your heals per second needs to be higher than you can spam especially in harder content so you need multiple HOTs running. Also spam heals tend to cost more so you'd run out of mag. HOTS are going to overheal.

You can also tank and do damage especially if you know how to tank and know the dungeon mechs - and especially if you are on PC with add ons that tell you when to block. Slot a taunt (Undaunted one or the ice staff one), a good self heal and a shield. Some DLC dungeons even on normal can be rough to tank when not on a full tank.

YetAnotherLinuxUser

Luckylancer wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

please don't fake role.

edited to add:
if you want minimal damage loss, be a damage dealer?

I dont want to wait que time. I want to clear dungeon as 3 or 4 DDs. I find group finder bit too slow. Clearing 5-6 random dungeon on different alts takes time so I want to do it fast while not making people die and watch me kill bosses while they are dead.

Taunting, keeping the boss at one place and not dying are bare minimum for tanking. Keeping people alive is bare minimum for healing. Is there a less damage loosy way of doing this on a DD?

what you want to do is make one bar dd build and one bar healer build or tank build. any healer has to have a setup like this anyway or they will die when the tank and the dd run past the mobs and leave you alone to deal with them by yourself. this happens all the time so might as well plan for it.

you could adopt this build and see how it works for you. i recommend using reviving barrier and orbs and whatever other healing you can stuff into your healing bar along with one offensive skill. then stuff all the dd skills or tank skills on the other bar along with one healing skill. You have to learn to gage the group you are in which bar you play the most. Sinc switching bars takes time and can mess up esp on controllers, you keep one skill type of the other bar on the bar you are on so you can do the oh crap i neeed the other bar but i have this one skill to save my hide before switching bars.

NOw lets talk sets. generally you want one set of each. like say torugs and heartland conqueror with infused weapons, jorvulds and burning spellweave. for easy runs use dragurs heritage with pillar of nirn. this is also useful for having one build for overland and dungeons. or like in the link below, use orders wrath and gourmand for a full crit healer/dd mode you need two crit sets is the one exception to that rule. orders wrath and your fave other crit set.

https://eso-hub.com/en/builds/mcmisher/80c36074-5bd3-4bfe-b083-49ec6e5a9382/stamsorc-crit-healer/default


as you get good atthis you can make a stam healer build with templar or sorc or esp warden pretty easily. and like was stated you can do it even without a resto staff. i have destro/restro, destro/dw, dw/resto, 2h/dw, and bow/dw. lots of options.


this is for rN we are talking about. no some vet dungeon or trials. for rN this is good enough.

I suppose we could talk cp point system but i would think it pretty obviouus you would build for dd on cp system and stay away from healing and tank treees for slotted skills use all the healing and tank passives you like

Soarora

M0ntie wrote: »

Memo to people who say every over heal is a waste - healing in ESO relies upon HoTs. If there is a burst of damage, you can't react in time and spam enough heals to save everyone. Your heals per second needs to be higher than you can spam especially in harder content so you need multiple HOTs running. Also spam heals tend to cost more so you'd run out of mag. HOTS are going to overheal.

It really depends. HoTs are incredibly important, I agree, but running echoing vigor, radiating regen, class aoe heal, restro aoe heal, fighters guild aoe heal, etc. all at the same time is most of the time a waste because the damage taken just does not require that much healing and thus other skills (such as damaging ones) should replace some of those HoTs. When I fake heal I usually bring echoing vigor and mushrooms (warden) and it does the job.

mrLuckyCat

Here is a little build that i have been using recently and i hope it will do you good :
(forgive all my typos, english is not my 1st language)

you will use 2 heavy, 2 medium and 3 light armor.

5 crimson oath rive set (heavy)
3 bloodthirsty jewelry + infused healthy chest and legs. use any rejen glyph that makes it easy on you

2x 1 pc monster that gives armor (pirate skeleton and lord warden) in medium weight. infused healthy head and sturdy mag or stam shoulders

5 crafted heartland conqueror : 3 divine light armor with mag or stam + weapons.
get an infused back bar frost staf with a crusher enchant on it, that's your tank bar
any front bar you want to craft (nirnhoned and sharped are good traits), that's your damage bar

make sure you have caltrop on your back bar, and a taunt (undaunted or frost staff taunt).

any mundus that you like : regen, penetration, armor... depending on what gives you the best balance of sustains/damage/tankyness.

this build will bring that amount of penetration for the group and yourself when alone :
3541 (heavy set) +
5280 (major fracture, caltrop) +
1320 (minor fracture, wall of frost) +
2109 (infused crusher on wall of frost, probably more with heartland conqueror) =
12 250

the pen cap for a vet trial is 18 200 i think. So 12 250 should be perfectly fine amount of pen for random normal designed for people under level 50 with miss matched sets.

of course, on your bar you should have a source of major resolve for you. minor resolve should come easy with the single target vigor from the alliance skill line.


i have all passive from all cp trees
i always use the red slotable for more armor, health, regen + 1 flex.
i also use my blue cp points for more damage but feel free to upgrade your tankyness/healing if you need it.

make sure you have all passive skills from all armor trait so the penaities of one type of armor get negated by another armor passive. in the end, you only just need 1 pc of sturdy to make up the worst penality of the 3rd piece of light armor you have.

getting the undaunted passive for increased max stats is also a plus.

with simular build that uses the ring of majesty on my nightblade, i have 40k health 30k resist self buffed and i can bring a ton of penetration for the group. questing and soloing is great. and if the group finder pair me light attack heroes or a fake healer that can't deal damage (sometime all at the same time) my fun factor is not affected despide the fact that it feels like im carrying potatoes.

you can easily test that build by soloing a couple of normal dungeon first and adjust it to your style before queuing for random.

enjoy

Braffin

M0ntie wrote: »

Memo to people who say every over heal is a waste - healing in ESO relies upon HoTs. If there is a burst of damage, you can't react in time and spam enough heals to save everyone. Your heals per second needs to be higher than you can spam especially in harder content so you need multiple HOTs running. Also spam heals tend to cost more so you'd run out of mag. HOTS are going to overheal.

You are right of course, healing relies upon HoTs and therefore there will always be some overhealing visible in cmx. Nonetheless, the more a healer is improving, the lower the amount of overheal will be. Not every HoT has to run during the whole fight for example, it's sufficient to cast them in them before the mechanics they are needed for are starting. So, "burst healing" by using HoTs to do so is very much a thing.

Casting an unnecessary heal, without healing or buffing anyone through it, instead of doing dmg in this time is definitely a waste of time and resources tho.

autocookies

deleted

AvalonRanger

Luckylancer wrote: »

I used to use pale order ring and I slotted a sing taunt to taunt bosses. After the pale order nerf it is not possible so I wonder if anyone else have a good idea abot sets or skills than can turn a DD to tank or healer with minimal damage lose.

I wonder about how tormentor set on jewelery and weapon +DD WW would be effective as a fake tank. Do you have any other ideas?

We can save our build preset now. You can change your build instantly from
DD style to the real tank except PVP zone.

And, we have "group finder" now.

There're no reason being fake tank and fake healer. Only nonsense players still doing like that.