Not liking these changes

Jeremy

So I decided to give this game a try again after a long hiatus due to what I considered was an oppressive atmosphere on the forums and a strong dislike for the changes they made to Mist Form (a skill I built my character around). And I'm not liking the changes at all. Maybe I will make that hiatus permanent.

Mist Form used to be a powerful defensive option that made tanks viable in PvP at providing defense (a skill I built my character around). But then you went and removed Health Regen from it, which completely killed my build. Gee thanks.

But Mist From was still useful as an escape mechanism, since it made you immune to CC effects and offered you a strong damage mitigation. So I changed my race/class and built a tank character that relied on escape instead of straight defenses to survive. I could use Mist From to quickly put distance between me and my opponents and then vanish via Shadow Disguise. It was working ok. It wasn't as good as the original, but at least I could stay alive pretty good in PvP and draw foolish players who wanted to chase me away from my allies.

But now you have removed CC immunity and damage mitigation from Mist From.... and turned it into what basically looks like some kind of copy cat streak ability without all the things that made Mist Form unique and cool in the first place. So now my build is basically ruined again. All you have to do now to easily kill any tank is simply CC/Burst them to death. Dead tank.

IMHO players are too tolerant of these constant changes that completely obliterate character builds. Changes to skills - especially on this game that has such a limited number of skills that define character builds - should only be done in the most extreme of circumstances. Instead, the developers of this game treat the game as it was a permanent public testing ground, constantly and dramatically changing skills without any regard for the annoyance it causes for their players. The real challenge of this game is not fighting the Daedra, it's dealing with all these pointless and annoying changes that add nothing of value to the game and just ruin cool builds.

P.S.
This post is mostly aimed at the developers. I won't be responding to those who disagree: only to say we can agree to disagree. It was the constant meddling of abilities that was mostly to blame for me leaving ESO in the first place. And it seems that's still how they roll. If you like it, I'm happy for you and enjoy the game. But I don't.

CrazyKitty

Every vamp in cyrodiil is still running mist form on one of their bars. Most of the "unkillable" tanks are running mist form. Other than disagreeing with you about mist form, your post is right on the money.

Jeremy wrote: »

So I decided to give this game a try again after a long hiatus due to what I considered was an oppressive atmosphere on the forums and a strong dislike for the changes they made to Mist Form (a skill I built my character around). And I'm not liking the changes at all. Maybe I will make that hiatus permanent.

Mist Form used to be a powerful defensive option that made tanks viable in PvP at providing defense (a skill I built my character around). But then you went and removed Health Regen from it, which completely killed my build. Gee thanks.

But Mist From was still useful as an escape mechanism, since it made you immune to CC effects and offered you a strong damage mitigation. So I changed my race/class and built a tank character that relied on escape instead of straight defenses to survive. I could use Mist From to quickly put distance between me and my opponents and then vanish via Shadow Disguise. It was working ok. It wasn't as good as the original, but at least I could stay alive pretty good in PvP and draw foolish players who wanted to chase me away from my allies.

But now you have removed CC immunity and damage mitigation from Mist From.... and turned it into what basically looks like some kind of copy cat streak ability without all the things that made Mist Form unique and cool in the first place. So now my build is basically ruined again. All you have to do now to easily kill any tank is simply CC/Burst them to death. Dead tank.

IMHO players are too tolerant of these constant changes that completely obliterate character builds. Changes to skills - especially on this game that has such a limited number of skills that define character builds - should only be done in the most extreme of circumstances. Instead, the developers of this game treat the game as it was a permanent public testing ground, constantly and dramatically changing skills without any regard for the annoyance it causes for their players. The real challenge of this game is not fighting the Daedra, it's dealing with all these pointless and annoying changes that add nothing of value to the game and just ruin cool builds.

P.S.
This post is mostly aimed at the developers. I won't be responding to those who disagree: only to say we can agree to disagree. It was the constant meddling of abilities that was mostly to blame for me leaving ESO in the first place. And it seems that's still how they roll. If you like it, I'm happy for you and enjoy the game. But I don't.

MidniteOwl1913

We weren't silent. People complained about the rate of change, still do, but it doesn't get anyone anywhere. Really I guess it's mostly just a waste of time ZOS isn't going to do what they want and there isn't really anything anyone can do about it.

valenwood_vegan

I don't think the players are tolerant of these constant see-saw combat changes at all.

They cause tons of complaints. U35 caused about 60% of the people I knew to leave the game.

That said, I do totally agree about the damage that balancing with a hammer instead of a scalpel has done to the game.

AlterBlika

I liked Mist Form in PVE when solo, as I also liked the old Frenzy. Kinda was the only reason to be a vampire and gain benefits from it for me. Feels bad that they gutted it.

TaSheen

This is the reality of MMOs I think.

Jaraal

TaSheen wrote: »

This is the reality of MMOs I think.

I've yet to find an MMO that was more extreme with their combat changes. Especially for skills that had worked fine for years.

But, when the established lore of Bosmer stealth and Argonian poison immunity was revoked (amidst fervent negative feedback) for combat balancing in 2019, the writing was on the wall that anything can be changed at any time, and there's nothing we can say or do about it.

TaSheen

Ah, well, there were some pretty drastic changes in WoW and RIFT years back when I played - and those were so extreme that I quit playing both games, and haven't ever been back.

ESO hasn't so far treated me that way.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about a skill.

Thank you for your understanding

IZZEFlameLash

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

I don't think the players are tolerant of these constant see-saw combat changes at all.

They cause tons of complaints. U35 caused about 60% of the people I knew to leave the game.

That said, I do totally agree about the damage that balancing with a hammer instead of a scalpel has done to the game.

Given the reaction to Morrowind and U35, it isn't players tolerating. It is more of devs forcing these changes through without communication and sound logic behind them.

Foxtrot39

Vampire and WW are basicaly in the same "nice for RP but that's it" bag nowadays in term of skill

With WW being at the bottom since you only get any benefit when transformed which gut your versatility and even role by locking you on a premade bar making you horrendously predictible in combat

Main reason vampire are around is because of the 0 penality on sneak speed, the damage mitigation and invisibility after running for 3s at stage 4

Pelanora

Why did they even do that.

Jaraal wrote: »

But, when the established lore of Bosmer stealth and Argonian poison immunity was revoked (amidst fervent negative feedback) for combat balancing in 2019, the writing was on the wall that anything can be changed at any time, and there's nothing we can say or do about it.

Jaraal

Pelanora wrote: »

Why did they even do that.

Jaraal wrote: »

But, when the established lore of Bosmer stealth and Argonian poison immunity was revoked (amidst fervent negative feedback) for combat balancing in 2019, the writing was on the wall that anything can be changed at any time, and there's nothing we can say or do about it.

They just didn't want Bosmer being stealthy any more. So they rewrote the lore.

We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5851010/#Comment_5851010

And since literally no NPCs utilize stealth, they turned the wood elves' original natural stealth passive into a PvP only bonus that is still bugged to this very day. Countless posts have demonstrated with video and pictoral evidence that Bosmer are actually at a disadvantage with stealth in PvP, because with the small extension of detection, enemies are alerted to their presence earlier than other races, as the enemy's "Hidden" eye opens much sooner when a Bosmer is near, giving away the fact that someone could possibly detect their position... even if the wood elf player doesn't actually see them. But the enemy is aware of their presence before knowing that players of any other race are nearby.

SandandStars

it’s called an echo chamber

tends to denote insecure, megalomaniacal leadership that surrounds itself with sycophants

SilverBride

Every MMO makes changes to everything. This is not unique to ESO.

We can either adapt or move on but it won't be any different anywhere else.

Araneae6537

I agree about the vampire changes and wish it would completely revert to pre-Greymoor. It is frustrating that now vampire is nothing but a handicap in PvE and yet everyone still cries it’s overpowered in PvP.

Vaqual

I kinda like it, it encapsulates a bit more the quick mistform dashing that we see in the greymoor trailer. functionality wise it is certainly not the worst ability around. I would like to keep this version.

Pelanora

Jaraal wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Why did they even do that.

Jaraal wrote: »

But, when the established lore of Bosmer stealth and Argonian poison immunity was revoked (amidst fervent negative feedback) for combat balancing in 2019, the writing was on the wall that anything can be changed at any time, and there's nothing we can say or do about it.

They just didn't want Bosmer being stealthy any more. So they rewrote the lore.

We also wanted to have more of a distinct play pattern on how Wood Elves and Khajiit both engaged with Stealth, so we’ve repurposed Wood Elves’ passive into one that deals with turning their proficiency of Stealth into a proficiency of hunting Stealthed targets.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5851010/#Comment_5851010

And since literally no NPCs utilize stealth, they turned the wood elves' original natural stealth passive into a PvP only bonus that is still bugged to this very day. Countless posts have demonstrated with video and pictoral evidence that Bosmer are actually at a disadvantage with stealth in PvP, because with the small extension of detection, enemies are alerted to their presence earlier than other races, as the enemy's "Hidden" eye opens much sooner when a Bosmer is near, giving away the fact that someone could possibly detect their position... even if the wood elf player doesn't actually see them. But the enemy is aware of their presence before knowing that players of any other race are nearby.

Oh that's so annoying. I now feel better about my rubbish theiving tho lol

Elyu

[quote="Jeremy;d-647744"]Instead, the developers of this game treat the game as it was a permanent public testing ground, constantly and dramatically changing skills without any regard for the annoyance it causes for their players. The real challenge of this game is not fighting the Daedra, it's dealing with all these pointless and annoying changes that add nothing of value to the game and just ruin cool builds[/quote]

I think this part of the OP's post probably sums up the sentiment expressed by the majority of those who post on the forums angry about the combat in this game, whichever perspective they are coming from (casual, pve, pvp etc) myself included.

Rather than it being a continuation of an idea, being constantly refined to get closer and closer to an impossible ideal, it's being re-written from scratch every time a major combat update or new class or particularly OP set gets introduced.

As other's have pointed out in other threads, there have been entire playstyles and builds centred around the specific functionality of a particular set or build (e.g. dk wings back at launch, or sorc streak before the ramping cost, or OG mistform etc) that then vanish completely when ZOS pulls the rug out from under the playerbase.

Just look at LOTRO in comparison - a much older game than ESO, and for all its flaws, the actual functionality of its combat is rarely DRASTICALY changed (at least as far as I know)

Veinblood1965

TaSheen wrote: »

Ah, well, there were some pretty drastic changes in WoW and RIFT years back when I played - and those were so extreme that I quit playing both games, and haven't ever been back.

ESO hasn't so far treated me that way.

Same here, I mained a Hunter in Wow and remember those changes. They were a total class change, I quit and have never been back. I quit ESO for a few years over tank changes. Came back and just don't tank PVE anymore unless I'm after a lead or something due to short wait times for tanks. PVP is my game now.

On a plus side some class changes are improvements so all in all it balances out.

SandandStars

U35 showed the dev team remaking the basic mechanics of the game in a way that the vast majority of players didn’t want.

The direction seemed based entirely on an internal concept that was not informed by knowledge of the players/customers.

Many threads in the forums address the disconnect between player feedback and the dev team. I guess it’s just an unfortunate part of the “culture” of whoever runs the team. At least the artwork is good. 😜

Pelanora

And the music. The music is fantastic.