PvP Arcanist = PvP DK

SandandStars

In bgs:

Arc: 1) Spam cc til you lock down someone low on stamina
2) Kill frozen opponent with fatecarver

DK: 1) Spam cc til you lock down someone low on stamina
2) Kill frozen opponent with whips

Both are extremely tanky classes

I guess looking for a squishy target to leap on as you enjoy the dk’s trademark nuke+immunity/shield (also see corrosive) is probably alot more fun.

finehair

it is the simple pvp combo that every class utilizes though.

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on dks.

DUTCH_REAPER

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on Arcs

xFocused

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on Arcs

Hard disagree. I don't see a Warden's health bar drop to practically 0, still take insane amounts of damage and somehow be able to stay alive

Brakkish

SandandStars wrote: »

In bgs:

Arc: 1) Spam cc til you lock down someone low on stamina
2) Kill frozen opponent with fatecarver

DK: 1) Spam cc til you lock down someone low on stamina
2) Kill frozen opponent with whips

Both are extremely tanky classes

I guess looking for a squishy target to leap on as you enjoy the dk’s trademark nuke+immunity/shield (also see corrosive) is probably alot more fun.

This made me lol, thank you
Cuz.. well you're not wrong. I resemble this remark actually.

DUTCH_REAPER

xFocused wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on Arcs

Hard disagree. I don't see a Warden's health bar drop to practically 0, still take insane amounts of damage and somehow be able to stay alive

That fall to zero health bar and magically bounce back up, yeh thats is an exploit, i already reported how to do it to ZOS.

SandandStars

Hmmm. Wasn’t really intending to ‘hate’ on dk or arc, though I can see how it could easily be perceived this way.

My point was more to illustrate how limited, predictable, and boring the typical PvP playing style is for the two classes.

I think of the 2, arc is even less dynamic.

Not hating or saying theyre OP, just observing a boring feature of a boring meta.

Cc lockdown, spray fatecarver… spam your shields n heals for awhile… repeat… repeat… repeat…

Zzzzzz

SkaraMinoc

On Sorcerer, I have a Languor of Peryite build with Drain Stamina poison. Spam the unblockable Sorcerer ability Rune Cage until enemy is out of stamina and can't Break Free anymore. It doesn't always work because of Wretched Vitality, heavy attacks, etc. Usually it's better to focus on damage and only stun when they are low health.

IZZEFlameLash

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on Arcs

Warden kinda is... lol almost every sweaty groups I see are majority Warden + 1 or 2 DK/NBs and out of all of them, DKs are the easiest to kill. Meanwhile, Wardens tower hump, healing each other off until their Dawnbreaker and shalks are up to ult dump you. If that fails to kill you, back to infinite kite, healing until your next try works. Magden also is quite nasty with constant freeze, root and intense pressure with DoT forcing you to be wasting your resources on healing and defensive near all the time.

There are few exploiting Arcanists that render themselves unkillable but we cannot really say exploiters are class norms. Because there are far more killable Arcs than there are exploiters.

GooGa592

Except Arcanist is weak in PvP due to not being able to do burst damage. DK and NB are the top of the pile in PvP now days, and not by a small margin.

Veinblood1965

GooGa592 wrote: »

Except Arcanist is weak in PvP due to not being able to do burst damage. DK and NB are the top of the pile in PvP now days, and not by a small margin.

True, not much in the way of burst damage. However they are great against large zergs. Just got mine to 50 recently and getting tons of kills all at once and as an added bonus a great asset to any group.

Iriidius

TideKingGaze+Stun+Fatecarver can also kill you very fast but is also pressure and burst is only 1vX/ outnumbered smallscale/ballgroup and maybe groupvgroup, in duell or when outnumbering other pressure often decides the fights and also works against good players that react fast to burst

DTStormfox

SandandStars wrote: »

Hmmm. Wasn’t really intending to ‘hate’ on dk or arc, though I can see how it could easily be perceived this way.

My point was more to illustrate how limited, predictable, and boring the typical PvP playing style is for the two classes.

I think of the 2, arc is even less dynamic.

Not hating or saying theyre OP, just observing a boring feature of a boring meta.

Cc lockdown, spray fatecarver… spam your shields n heals for awhile… repeat… repeat… repeat…

Zzzzzz

Are you familiar with the concept of dominant design?

Dominant design:
"A dominant design in a product class refers to a set of product design features that achieve a de facto standard in a new product market"

My point is that you will find the combat patterns you describe in nearly all PVP games. It is the dominant design in the gaming industry and seems quite successful because people keep buying games with this design.

Take a game like World of Warcraft, for example. In WoW you also root/stun/immobilize your enemy and then drop your damage combo on the enemy player. If that fails, you charge up another combo. The same goes for Guild Wars and other titles, including ESO. I know this is overly simplified, but it is basically what the dominant design is in PVP arena's in MMO RPGs.

SandandStars

ty. hadnt heard the term, & it completely aligns with the boring dynamic i observed.

i find the game is a lot more fun when i’m dodge rolling, blocking, timing a well placed line of shalks ir ulti combo without the cc — takes a lot more skill & is more rewarding. personally, of course.

IZZEFlameLash

DTStormfox wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

Hmmm. Wasn’t really intending to ‘hate’ on dk or arc, though I can see how it could easily be perceived this way.

My point was more to illustrate how limited, predictable, and boring the typical PvP playing style is for the two classes.

I think of the 2, arc is even less dynamic.

Not hating or saying theyre OP, just observing a boring feature of a boring meta.

Cc lockdown, spray fatecarver… spam your shields n heals for awhile… repeat… repeat… repeat…

Zzzzzz

Are you familiar with the concept of dominant design?

Dominant design:
"A dominant design in a product class refers to a set of product design features that achieve a de facto standard in a new product market"

My point is that you will find the combat patterns you describe in nearly all PVP games. It is the dominant design in the gaming industry and seems quite successful because people keep buying games with this design.

Take a game like World of Warcraft, for example. In WoW you also root/stun/immobilize your enemy and then drop your damage combo on the enemy player. If that fails, you charge up another combo. The same goes for Guild Wars and other titles, including ESO. I know this is overly simplified, but it is basically what the dominant design is in PVP arena's in MMO RPGs.

Yep, I am really super hard pressed to find any modern pvp games that do not have 'hard cc -> damage combo' pattern. After all, there's extremely small population of players that like missing their attacks, as a result, wasting their resources and putting themselves at a disadvantage.

SlippyCheeze

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

DTStormfox wrote: »

Dominant design:
"A dominant design in a product class refers to a set of product design features that achieve a de facto standard in a new product market"

My point is that you will find the combat patterns you describe in nearly all PVP games. It is the dominant design in the gaming industry and seems quite successful because people keep buying games with this design.

Yep, I am really super hard pressed to find any modern pvp games that do not have 'hard cc -> damage combo' pattern. After all, there's extremely small population of players that like missing their attacks, as a result, wasting their resources and putting themselves at a disadvantage.

...and if you *do* find a game where "hard CC" isn't used, the pattern will be "soft CC or slow → damage", or "shield self → damage", or even "cast HoT on self → damage", or the occasional weirdly exotic "hide unnoticed → damage"

also why the PvP meta in almost every game includes "slap that jump button randomly while running around like a lizard on meth" movement, and if not that, then it'll probably be one of constantly circling, or backing away from, the other player.

the common element of all those is that PvP comes down to (1) don't die, and (2) kill target. since stopping someone doing anything at all is the best way to achieve both, it wins if it is possible, and the rest of them are a set of compromises down the path.

(technically, "pvp comes down to" that in any "skill based" pvp model where the skill in question is real-time fast reaction based, and a similar but not identical pattern applies in, eg, turn based games where you can think about your actions longer.)

IZZEFlameLash

SlippyCheeze wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

DTStormfox wrote: »

Dominant design:
"A dominant design in a product class refers to a set of product design features that achieve a de facto standard in a new product market"

My point is that you will find the combat patterns you describe in nearly all PVP games. It is the dominant design in the gaming industry and seems quite successful because people keep buying games with this design.

Yep, I am really super hard pressed to find any modern pvp games that do not have 'hard cc -> damage combo' pattern. After all, there's extremely small population of players that like missing their attacks, as a result, wasting their resources and putting themselves at a disadvantage.

...and if you *do* find a game where "hard CC" isn't used, the pattern will be "soft CC or slow → damage", or "shield self → damage", or even "cast HoT on self → damage", or the occasional weirdly exotic "hide unnoticed → damage"

also why the PvP meta in almost every game includes "slap that jump button randomly while running around like a lizard on meth" movement, and if not that, then it'll probably be one of constantly circling, or backing away from, the other player.

the common element of all those is that PvP comes down to (1) don't die, and (2) kill target. since stopping someone doing anything at all is the best way to achieve both, it wins if it is possible, and the rest of them are a set of compromises down the path.

(technically, "pvp comes down to" that in any "skill based" pvp model where the skill in question is real-time fast reaction based, and a similar but not identical pattern applies in, eg, turn based games where you can think about your actions longer.)

Yep, it is as you say. If there's no hard cc, then soft cc is available in most cases. In fact, many genres of games have some sort of soft cc mechanics available that almost all serious players utilize such mechanic, with only difference between genres being how one achieve that effect.

Theignson

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

xFocused wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

warden is more cancer in pvp than any other class, stop hating on Arcs

Hard disagree. I don't see a Warden's health bar drop to practically 0, still take insane amounts of damage and somehow be able to stay alive

That fall to zero health bar and magically bounce back up, yeh thats is an exploit, i already reported how to do it to ZOS.

I'm glad to hear confirmed that this is a bug. I have a post about this elsewhere on the forum. Nothing normal could allow these arcanists to go to zero health and then simply not die.
Can you tell us in general terms how it works?I haven't seen it for about a week, maybe some of the exploiters are getting banned (probably not)