Implement Draw

AnduinTryggva

I think this "who reaches 80 points first wins" is plain stupid and unfair.

Just implement following which should be VERY EASY to do:

If one player reaches 80 points the opposing player gets ONE SINGLE draw in which s/he can attempt to get 80 or more points as well. If s/he succeeds the match ends as draw. In competitive matches each player gets half the points s/he would have obtained from winning that match. Reward boxes are one quality level below than for a win but minimum green.

AnduinTryggva

Devs, please implement draw. Current system is highly unfair and one could as well just flip a coin to determine the winner.

Specifically with new patron many matches now end with both players being able to achieve 80 points in the same round and the winner is just that player who begins the round. This is simply plain stupid and unfair.

AnduinTryggva

why don't we have a draw mechanic yes?

Absolutey incomprehensible. Incomprehensible. *shakingmyheadindisbelief*

spartaxoxo

First to 80 seems fair to me. It's already given you multiple chances to close the match when it gets to that point, because it's actually first to 40 that begins the end game.

AnduinTryggva

You omit the snowball nature of ToT where you actually build your deck with each round.

As it is now it could as well determined by flipping a coin who wins as soon as both players are above the 40 points and getting to the 80 points.

The devs implemented the "second chance" in acknowledgement of this issue for the 40 points because it is exactly the same if there would not be the second race to 80 points. The thing is that the issue did not vanish between the 40 and the 80 points. It is still there.

I simply would suggest to implement a draw for cases where the player drawing second can surpass the points of the first player. If the developers wish to make it more difficult then they could implement a requirement to surpass the final score of the first player by a certain margin, e.g. 5 points to qualify for a draw.

Without margin this would be for instance:
Final round 1: Player A reaches 82 points in his turn. Player B is at 78 points. Player B plays his cards and gets 82 or more points--> draw. If B only gets 81 or less points, player A wins and player B loses. Player B cannot win at all here.

With some margin (e.g. of 5 points delta) this would be for instance:
Final round 1: Player A reaches 82 points in his turn. Player B is at 78 points. Player B plays his cards and gets 87 or more points --> draw. If B only gets 86 or less points, player A wins and player B loses. Player B cannot win at all here.

I don't see why this should be an issue. Contrary it would take out that unfair part where the match is determined by the order of turns as it is right now.

A draw is an aknowledgement that both players had equally good performance and a distinction in terms of luck or skill distribution cannot be made.

As it is now the thing is worse and unfairer then penalty shoot out during soccer matches where each team gets the same number of opportunities to equalize the score of the team kicking first.

Vynera

spartaxoxo wrote: »

First to 80 seems fair to me. It's already given you multiple chances to close the match when it gets to that point, because it's actually first to 40 that begins the end game.

I had now multiple matches with the new deck where either I or my opponent jump from ~40 directly to 80+ within one round. Best one was a match paired with crow where I jumped from 36 points to 96. With the new deck you can make so insane much points to basically end the match directly without even caring about the downside, who cares if my cards give them tons of gold or cards to draw when they can't play it cuz the game instant ends.

Just finished a round where we both had 42 points, my opponent went with the next round to 83 but I would have had easily the chance to counter that if the game would just let me.

So no, you don't always have "multiple" chances.

spartaxoxo

Vynera wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

First to 80 seems fair to me. It's already given you multiple chances to close the match when it gets to that point, because it's actually first to 40 that begins the end game.

I had now multiple matches with the new deck where either I or my opponent jump from ~40 directly to 80+ within one round. Best one was a match paired with crow where I jumped from 36 points to 96. With the new deck you can make so insane much points to basically end the match directly without even caring about the downside, who cares if my cards give them tons of gold or cards to draw when they can't play it cuz the game instant ends.

Just finished a round where we both had 42 points, my opponent went with the next round to 83 but I would have had easily the chance to counter that if the game would just let me.

So no, you don't always have "multiple" chances.

The mechanic isn't going to take into account every edge case, but it's fair that the first person to achieve a score wins. New deck could probably use some adjustments.

AnduinTryggva

How often do you actually play, spartaxoxo?

spartaxoxo

I have played this game a lot. The vast, vast majority of my wins have been because I reached 40 first and my opponent couldn't match or beat my score.

I haven't played a ton with the new deck, but if the new deck is causing that to happen often, then that's a problem with the deck. It's not a problem with the basic scoring.

TybaltKaine

Hard agree with @spartaxoxo here. The new deck is broken and needs to be the focus of any changes, not the entire system.

AnduinTryggva

TybaltKaine wrote: »

Hard agree with @spartaxoxo here. The new deck is broken and needs to be the focus of any changes, not the entire system.

Please open another thread when you want to discuss Mora tweaks.

I still think that a draw is strongly missing in this game as it simply is stupidly random much too often who gets first to 80 points.

Dunno agaist who you play most of the time but I almost ALWAYS end up with matches that go to 80. And often it ends with one player having 75+ points when the other player terminates the match with something like 82 or so. It is just plain stupid to call this a "win" just because that player had a turn while the other had not.

Personofsecrets

The new deck certainly does turn the 80 point threshold for victory into more of a problem coinflip scenario. I'm not sure if the designers realized the issue during development because it actually causes the cardinal sin of longer games to transpire.