Reawakened Hierophant: Minor Heroism & Major Protection when it's in Curative Runeforms Skill Line

Nebs

I was curious if anyone else thought it kind of weird that one of the buffs, Minor Heroism that Reawakened Hierophant can grant is already available to the Skill Line it benefits, specifically the skill Audacious Runemend.


I'm curious what other people think. On the one hand, it's nice to be able to grant Minor Heroism to targets above 50% Health, but on the other, I feel like it's a shame that one of the new class sets grants a named buff that can already be sourced from its very own skill line it is intended to enhance.

Nebs

While setting up a Healer I see that the Curative Runeforms Ultimate, Glyphic of the Tides, also provides Major Protection.


Maybe this set should have been called Redundant Hierophant?

IZZEFlameLash

Considering that alternative morphs do not provide these buffs... and no one will have ults up 24/7, I don't think it is really redundant.

Nebs

Well, by being a backup at all, it's actually the definition of redundant. It's either redundant coverage so you can slot other morphs/skills or it's redundant backup to those morphs for higher uptimes.

Every other class's set introduces either completely unique buffs or named buffs that the class can't produce themselves.

Dragon Knights set got a Major Heroism buff which they cannot apply with their skills and a unique damageshield/healing buff
Templars get a unique magicka recovery buff and a unique skill line buff
Sorcerer's get a damage source so unique only one sorcerer can use it at a time (lol)
Nightblades get a unique skill line damage and heal buff
Wardens get Major Cowadice, Minor Heroism, and Minor Vitality which they cannot apply with their skills
Necromancer did get some redundancy in the form of an additional corpse, but there is no functional limit to the number you can have so it isnt wasted, and then they also get a unique damage mitigation and healing buff

CameraBeardThePirate

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

Nebs

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

I'm not denying the quality of the buffs, but the fact that you can have solid uptimes of those buffs I think is what makes their inclusion even more egregious. It means you should not use one of the morphs of one of the skills, and absolutely not the morph from the Ultimate that is specifically geared toward being casted by healers.

CameraBeardThePirate

Nebs wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

I'm not denying the quality of the buffs, but the fact that you can have solid uptimes of those buffs I think is what makes their inclusion even more egregious. It means you should not use one of the morphs of one of the skills, and absolutely not the morph from the Ultimate that is specifically geared toward being casted by healers.

I think you're grossly overestimating the uptime of Minor Heroism and Major Protection from Audacious Runemend and Glyphic. Your uptime is not going to be anywhere near 100%. You won't even break 50% uptime.

Hierophant also won't be 100% uptime - it'll be much closer to 80% in actual gameplay (and even that's probably being generous).

Both Heroism and Protection are strong enough buffs that having a bit of redundancy isn't a bad thing at all.

Nebs

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hierophant also won't be 100% uptime - it'll be much closer to 80% in actual gameplay (and even that's probably being generous).

Both Heroism and Protection are strong enough buffs that having a bit of redundancy isn't a bad thing at all.

I do feel like I spend the least amount of time at 2 Crux, and so it's probably the ability that's most likely to lapse and Audacious Runemend's Minor Heroism is typically only going to apply to a tank, anyway. So, you're right, some overlap between those abilities isn't horrible.

I guess after I discovered the Major Protection on the Ult that most appealed to healers I was particularly upset, and I'm still not sold on it appearing on Hierophant. I know you can't keep the Ult up 100% of the time, but what's the play then? Just start consuming Crux when you have 2 instead of waiting until you reach 3 while your Ult is out? But then my other abilities are suffering: they're either less effective or they cost more. The Ult I'm encouraged to use as a healer makes the 3 crux benefit from this armor moot while its out and I hate that. The set already can't be triggered by the skill line's ult, so why make a big part of it overlap with it, too?

CameraBeardThePirate

Nebs wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Hierophant also won't be 100% uptime - it'll be much closer to 80% in actual gameplay (and even that's probably being generous).

Both Heroism and Protection are strong enough buffs that having a bit of redundancy isn't a bad thing at all.

I do feel like I spend the least amount of time at 2 Crux, and so it's probably the ability that's most likely to lapse and Audacious Runemend's Minor Heroism is typically only going to apply to a tank, anyway. So, you're right, some overlap between those abilities isn't horrible.

I guess after I discovered the Major Protection on the Ult that most appealed to healers I was particularly upset, and I'm still not sold on it appearing on Hierophant. I know you can't keep the Ult up 100% of the time, but what's the play then? Just start consuming Crux when you have 2 instead of waiting until you reach 3 while your Ult is out? But then my other abilities are suffering: they're either less effective or they cost more. The Ult I'm encouraged to use as a healer makes the 3 crux benefit from this armor moot while its out and I hate that. The set already can't be triggered by the skill line's ult, so why make a big part of it overlap with it, too?

Use the other morph of the ultimate (Resonating). Anyone can damage it, and it ends up being way easier to power up to full than Glyphic of the Tides - throw it into the middle of your groups aoe damage and it almost instantly powers to full.

Plus, because it counts as a target you can use it to proc certain sets. Azureblight, as an example, will use Resonating Glyphic to increase the proc's scaling, and the glyph itself can even proc a Blight Seed explosion, adding to your (group's) damage.

YandereGirlfriend

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

If you're spamming Chakrams then you're sitting at either 0 or 3 Crux whenever you proc this set, so you are getting either nothing or only the Major Protection. The 1 and 2 Crux benefits may as well not exist because you will rarely ever see them.

CameraBeardThePirate

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

If you're spamming Chakrams then you're sitting at either 0 or 3 Crux whenever you proc this set, so you are getting either nothing or only the Major Protection. The 1 and 2 Crux benefits may as well not exist because you will rarely ever see them.

You should be consuming 3 crux as often as possible, regardless of the build, because Arcanist's ult gen is tied to crux consumption.

Ren_TheRedFox

You can easily get all 3 bonuses all the time ... just combine the set with Jorvuld's Guidance and you have them up for 9 seconds. There is also a simple rotation to provide all 3 buffs to your group. Create 1 Crux and use the domain... repeat that 3 times and everyone has all 3 bonuses from the set. Personally, I think it's a good group utility set even if all 3 buffs are in the arcanist's toolkit already. Let's face it... the glyhic uptime is a joke when using the heal (unless it's PvE, because then you can easily heal it for Great Protection) but in PvP it's just not worth the 200 ultimate points because on one hand the heal is weak and the duration is too short. The Minor Heroism is a single target thing and only applies if you heal someone with less than 50% HP. And the shield is just awesome because you can stack it with the chakram, giving you a "double shield". I personally like the set a lot ... probably my second favorite class set ... it's a bit tricky to use, but once you know how to do it, it's a great utility set that I think every group should have.

YandereGirlfriend

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

If you're spamming Chakrams then you're sitting at either 0 or 3 Crux whenever you proc this set, so you are getting either nothing or only the Major Protection. The 1 and 2 Crux benefits may as well not exist because you will rarely ever see them.

You should be consuming 3 crux as often as possible, regardless of the build, because Arcanist's ult gen is tied to crux consumption.

Eh, I dunno about that. In most situations if I'm healing I would take the +9% Healing Done from holding Crux vs. the standard class ult-gen passive of 0.5 ult/sec. Though I am approaching this from more of a PvP POV.

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

You can easily get all 3 bonuses all the time ... just combine the set with Jorvuld's Guidance and you have them up for 9 seconds. There is also a simple rotation to provide all 3 buffs to your group. Create 1 Crux and use the domain... repeat that 3 times and everyone has all 3 bonuses from the set. Personally, I think it's a good group utility set even if all 3 buffs are in the arcanist's toolkit already. Let's face it... the glyhic uptime is a joke when using the heal (unless it's PvE, because then you can easily heal it for Great Protection) but in PvP it's just not worth the 200 ultimate points because on one hand the heal is weak and the duration is too short. The Minor Heroism is a single target thing and only applies if you heal someone with less than 50% HP. And the shield is just awesome because you can stack it with the chakram, giving you a "double shield". I personally like the set a lot ... probably my second favorite class set ... it's a bit tricky to use, but once you know how to do it, it's a great utility set that I think every group should have.

You could do this but then it ties back around to the set providing relatively common and mediocre buffs to begin with. So you're using both of your 5-pieces to provide things that could be sourced in other ways.

Don't get me wrong, this set COULD be really cool. It just needs some spicier buffs to make it worth it. This is particularly true because this set is only really useful for 4-player and below content due to Arcanist target cap issues and the fact that it is artificially banned from working with the ultimate, which is another puzzling design decision and one that goes against the logic that they employed when improving the NB class set (e.g. that a class skill line set should work with ALL class skills, including the ultimate).

CameraBeardThePirate

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Considering the 2-4 piece, this set is pretty clearly designed to be used on a shielder with Chakrams - neither morph of Chakrams has those buffs. The set is a phenomenal options for such builds, as when you're spamming those shields during fire, your targets will have solid uptime of all those buffs.

If you're spamming Chakrams then you're sitting at either 0 or 3 Crux whenever you proc this set, so you are getting either nothing or only the Major Protection. The 1 and 2 Crux benefits may as well not exist because you will rarely ever see them.

You should be consuming 3 crux as often as possible, regardless of the build, because Arcanist's ult gen is tied to crux consumption.

Eh, I dunno about that. In most situations if I'm healing I would take the +9% Healing Done from holding Crux vs. the standard class ult-gen passive of 0.5 ult/sec. Though I am approaching this from more of a PvP POV.

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

You can easily get all 3 bonuses all the time ... just combine the set with Jorvuld's Guidance and you have them up for 9 seconds. There is also a simple rotation to provide all 3 buffs to your group. Create 1 Crux and use the domain... repeat that 3 times and everyone has all 3 bonuses from the set. Personally, I think it's a good group utility set even if all 3 buffs are in the arcanist's toolkit already. Let's face it... the glyhic uptime is a joke when using the heal (unless it's PvE, because then you can easily heal it for Great Protection) but in PvP it's just not worth the 200 ultimate points because on one hand the heal is weak and the duration is too short. The Minor Heroism is a single target thing and only applies if you heal someone with less than 50% HP. And the shield is just awesome because you can stack it with the chakram, giving you a "double shield". I personally like the set a lot ... probably my second favorite class set ... it's a bit tricky to use, but once you know how to do it, it's a great utility set that I think every group should have.

You could do this but then it ties back around to the set providing relatively common and mediocre buffs to begin with. So you're using both of your 5-pieces to provide things that could be sourced in other ways.

Don't get me wrong, this set COULD be really cool. It just needs some spicier buffs to make it worth it. This is particularly true because this set is only really useful for 4-player and below content due to Arcanist target cap issues and the fact that it is artificially banned from working with the ultimate, which is another puzzling design decision and one that goes against the logic that they employed when improving the NB class set (e.g. that a class skill line set should work with ALL class skills, including the ultimate).

FWIW, I'm also approaching this from a PvP pov, specifically a max mag chakrams build. You simply don't have enough true healing on an Arc (edpecially a chakrams Arc) to really justify sitting at 3 crux just for a 9% healing bonus. You're also not going to always be healing - I'd rather have better ult gen.