I hate the market manipulation, and I hate TTC for it.

dk_dunkirk

I like collecting the emotes and mementos. I missed the skeletal marionette during previous Witch events. I had been looking around via TTC for the parts, and thought -- at about 400K gold each -- I would just wait for the event. Surely, I thought to myself, people will get them, list them, and the price will go down. Boy, how I was wrong! It's clear that, since the event began, people with enough money to push the market around are buying them all up, and relisting them at 600-800K. You can tell from TTC. There will be several in a row, all posted at the same time, by the same account. And, even though I've only played for a couple of years, this sort of thing has caught me sideways more times than I can count. At this point, I wish ZOS would ban TTC. It's the thing that makes this all possible, and I hate it. I mean, I love it, but I also hate it.

SimonThesis

They intentionally like to make a lot of event items that year only, though there are items that do come back every time usually the trash items they give out zillions of. It is very common for people to know event items may not come back and to buy them up and list them higher. Flipping and TTC in this game has its place, its what allows items at lower traffic zones to be bought up and then resold. Otherwise everyone would only buy and sell in big trading zones.

Jaimeh

This would happen without TTC as well, though probably more slowly because the flippers would have to manually go over all the traders to find the items to flip (but then again so would the legitimate buyers). Maybe you can try posting for a WTB message in zone with your price range to hopefully some fragments that way instead.

valenwood_vegan

The skeletal marionette parts aren't dropping anymore afaik? I think anyone selling them has been saving them from at least a couple years back - items like that are always going to be very expensive. A bound version drops from the 2-ticket witches' grab bag though.

PeacefulAnarchy

They aren't dropping anymore and haven't dropped in 3 or 4 years. Anything listed is from people who've held onto them hoping to sell during the event when there's interest.
They do drop from the grab bag, but those are bound, as valenwood vegan said

Freilauftomate

I always waited for the end (or middle) of events to buy event related stuff. At the beginning everything is expensive, and after a while it gets cheaper. If it doesn't get cheaper, then i don't buy it and see if i can farm it myself. If i can't then i don't need it.

I hate people who flip items and manipulate the market. In the real world too. That's why i will wait for the PS5 slim (or pro). Never wanted to give scalpers extra money for taking away children's toys.

Someone took away Starfield from Playstation players by buying the whole company for a couple billion dollars, so i will never play this game.

My actions don't impact the market at all, i know, but i am trying to not be manipulated too much. I still have an over 10 year old cellphone with replaceable battery, because buying a new cellphone every 2 years doesn't make sense to me. I work without banking apps and can do everything else on my PC. I buy milk from happy and healthy cows at a farmer close to my home for 10 cents more etc. I don't care about fashion...

May seem stupid to some people, and sometimes i don't have a choice, but somehow i feel better since i stopped wanting everything all the time, without thinking about the consequences.

Tldr: the event just started, i am sure the prices will go down soon.

freespirit

@dk_dunkirk as people mentioned above those skeletal marionette parts DO NOT drop anymore.....

Ones for sale now are ones from several years ago, you can however get them in the grab bag at the Impresario for 2 tickets.

If you go that route bind anything you get after opening each bag or it can drop again....... things such a style pages etc.....GL!

rpa

Grab bags are the way to go for mementos &cet. Use the contents, buy another. When you have collected everything dropping from bag you cant buy more (which would be waste of event tickets if you could).

thorwyn

This is a prime example of what's wrong with this game. People are complaining about EVERYTHING and come up with theories, accusations and what not and basically, they are just lacking information.

I_killed_Vivec

Buy or buy not, there is no cry.

(Sorry Yoda, it kinda worked...)

Toanis

Item flipping and market manipulation in this game is among the worst of the genre. But not because of TTC; TTC and MM are making it possible for casual buyers (and sellers) to not be ripped off. Without those tools you wouldn't even know that the item sold at premium in a trade hub can be had at half the price from some tiny guild's trader in the middle of nowhere.

If ZOS wanted to stop item flipping, all they had to do is making the bought item account bound for a day or two, but they want the current system, because the trade guild system with a limited amount of traders in premium price spots is a far better gold sink than a global auction house.

Treeshka

There is one way of preventing it but it is a bit far fetched. Some items can be made bound upon purchase from guild trader.

dk_dunkirk

Freilauftomate wrote: »

Someone took away Starfield from Playstation players by buying the whole company for a couple billion dollars, so i will never play this game.

You didn't miss anything. I refunded the advance-play deluxe version after 13 hours. It takes about that long to figure out that inventory management is as hard as playing ESO without ESO+, and there's nothing to be done about it except micromanagement. There simply is no equivalent of a loot bag (or workbench, from FO4, or scrap box, from FO76). Really strange for a Bethesda game, if you ask me, but, then, they didn't.

dk_dunkirk

rpa wrote: »

When you have collected everything dropping from bag you cant buy more...

This is what I've been doing, at some expense, buy buying event tickets with crowns. I didn't know that they would be un-buyable after I'd exhausted what could drop in them. Good to know! I will continue to spend myself into the poorhouse!

UPDATE: I just bought another 12 tickets, and opened the last piece on my last grab bag, exhausting them for me. Make me feel good, in an OCD/completionist sort of way, that I'm all caught up now.

Katheriah

Oh, this topic triggered me to check my bank. Turns out I still have a couple. Thanks for the heads up!

twev

Toanis wrote: »

Item flipping and market manipulation in this game is among the worst of the genre. But not because of TTC; TTC and MM are making it possible for casual buyers (and sellers) to not be ripped off. Without those tools you wouldn't even know that the item sold at premium in a trade hub can be had at half the price from some tiny guild's trader in the middle of nowhere.

If ZOS wanted to stop item flipping, all they had to do is making the bought item account bound for a day or two, but they want the current system, because the trade guild system with a limited amount of traders in premium price spots is a far better gold sink than a global auction house.

To be clear for the pedants - the only gold sink resulting from the guild trades is from the taxes charged.
The higher the sales prices - the larger the taxes skimmed off the top as the actual gold sink.

Of course that also means that the guild itself also gets a larger net of the sale, to pay for costs associated with running a successful guild.

virtus753

twev wrote: »

Toanis wrote: »

Item flipping and market manipulation in this game is among the worst of the genre. But not because of TTC; TTC and MM are making it possible for casual buyers (and sellers) to not be ripped off. Without those tools you wouldn't even know that the item sold at premium in a trade hub can be had at half the price from some tiny guild's trader in the middle of nowhere.

If ZOS wanted to stop item flipping, all they had to do is making the bought item account bound for a day or two, but they want the current system, because the trade guild system with a limited amount of traders in premium price spots is a far better gold sink than a global auction house.

To be clear for the pedants - the only gold sink resulting from the guild trades is from the taxes charged.
The higher the sales prices - the larger the taxes skimmed off the top as the actual gold sink.

Of course that also means that the guild itself also gets a larger net of the sale, to pay for costs associated with running a successful guild.

Guild traders also cost money to hire each week, and in most cases that will be in the millions. That gold just disappears.

twev

virtus753 wrote: »

twev wrote: »

Toanis wrote: »

Item flipping and market manipulation in this game is among the worst of the genre. But not because of TTC; TTC and MM are making it possible for casual buyers (and sellers) to not be ripped off. Without those tools you wouldn't even know that the item sold at premium in a trade hub can be had at half the price from some tiny guild's trader in the middle of nowhere.

If ZOS wanted to stop item flipping, all they had to do is making the bought item account bound for a day or two, but they want the current system, because the trade guild system with a limited amount of traders in premium price spots is a far better gold sink than a global auction house.

To be clear for the pedants - the only gold sink resulting from the guild trades is from the taxes charged.
The higher the sales prices - the larger the taxes skimmed off the top as the actual gold sink.

Of course that also means that the guild itself also gets a larger net of the sale, to pay for costs associated with running a successful guild.

Guild traders also cost money to hire each week, and in most cases that will be in the millions. That gold just disappears.

Yes, you're correct, of course.
Thank you, I glossed over that detail.

GooGa592

I hate the flippers too. It just runs the cost up for everyone and what is a 5 million gold in the bank doing to help their game anyway? ESO economy nothing like practicing for the real stock market. I can't think of a single thing ZOS could change to stop it though. Spreading the guild vendors out is about the best thing they can do probably.

twev

GooGa592 wrote: »

I hate the flippers too. It just runs the cost up for everyone and what is a 5 million gold in the bank doing to help their game anyway? ESO economy nothing like practicing for the real stock market. I can't think of a single thing ZOS could change to stop it though. Spreading the guild vendors out is about the best thing they can do probably.

Flipping is it's own mini-game for a lot of players in games like these.

[EDIT: 5 Million gold is nothing to some/many long term players.
My brother runs his bank up to 40-50 million and then spends it all to buy stuff at the traders like motifs from chapters he's not buying anymore, and crafting mats that he runs out of faster than he can farm, or from maps in the chapters he doesn't buy.]

GooGa592

twev wrote: »

GooGa592 wrote: »

I hate the flippers too. It just runs the cost up for everyone and what is a 5 million gold in the bank doing to help their game anyway? ESO economy nothing like practicing for the real stock market. I can't think of a single thing ZOS could change to stop it though. Spreading the guild vendors out is about the best thing they can do probably.

Flipping is it's own mini-game for a lot of players in games like these.

[EDIT: 5 Million gold is nothing to some/many long term players.
My brother runs his bank up to 40-50 million and then spends it all to buy stuff at the traders like motifs from chapters he's not buying anymore, and crafting mats that he runs out of faster than he can farm, or from maps in the chapters he doesn't buy.]

Don't need 40-50 million in bank to do that. The gold just sits in the bank for the most part.

Maybe ZOS needs to limit daily item purchases or something to make it fair for those who primarily play the game as designed.

valenwood_vegan

GooGa592 wrote: »

Maybe ZOS needs to limit daily item purchases or something to make it fair for those who primarily play the game as designed.

Sounds more like you want the design of the game changed to match the way you think it should be played though?

mochizx

Why would zos ban a mod that doesn't violate any ToS just because of one individual?

spartaxoxo

While I generally agree that ttc is one of the contributing factor to the higher prices on PC....the example you cited of unbound marionette fragments being expensive is not a good one. Scarcity is a big determining factor in price, and those fragments are not generally available.

twev

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While I generally agree that ttc is one of the contributing factor to the higher prices on PC....the example you cited of unbound marionette fragments being expensive is not a good one. Scarcity is a big determining factor in price, and those fragments are not generally available.

TTC is also a contributing factor for sellers price cutting to get their stuff sold faster.

spartaxoxo

twev wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While I generally agree that ttc is one of the contributing factor to the higher prices on PC....the example you cited of unbound marionette fragments being expensive is not a good one. Scarcity is a big determining factor in price, and those fragments are not generally available.

TTC is also a contributing factor for sellers price cutting to get their stuff sold faster.

Sure. But, then that low price gets snatched up quickly by someone flipping it for a higher price. Whereas it doesn't necessarily happen that way on console because the amount of time and effort it requires to check each shop manually is too high.

The out of game influences that make trade on PC safer and more convenient, also comes with higher prices and more coin held by the rich traders.

Tommy_The_Gun

Something that is worth mentioning here is that in the past, event items (motive pages, fragments etc) were not capped to 1 per day per account, so you could farm them yourself. The "demand" was low & "availability" higher so they were cheap on the market. But for whatever reason ZOS changed it and now event items are hard to get (1 per day per account, RNG bound). The result is that they are way too overpriced on the market for an average, normal player.

Also there is technically an issue that during event you can um kinda "buy gold for RL cash" by buying event tickets yourself from the crown store and selling items you farmed for millions. I am not an expert but this most likely something that for the most part MMO devs don't want, but well... here it is... but crown gifting is not.. huh.

kargen27

spartaxoxo wrote: »

twev wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

While I generally agree that ttc is one of the contributing factor to the higher prices on PC....the example you cited of unbound marionette fragments being expensive is not a good one. Scarcity is a big determining factor in price, and those fragments are not generally available.

TTC is also a contributing factor for sellers price cutting to get their stuff sold faster.

Sure. But, then that low price gets snatched up quickly by someone flipping it for a higher price. Whereas it doesn't necessarily happen that way on console because the amount of time and effort it requires to check each shop manually is too high.

The out of game influences that make trade on PC safer and more convenient, also comes with higher prices and more coin held by the rich traders.

If you are relying on TTC for bargains you will the majority of the time miss out. TTC is not an up to date data base of items and prices. The data it receives is often delayed and sometimes the item is posted to TTC after it is already gone. Prices are higher on the PC compared to the consoles because is is so much easier to make gold on the PC. Many, many add-ons contribute to making gold much easier.

Freilauftomate

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

...UPDATE: I just bought another 12 tickets, and opened the last piece on my last grab bag, exhausting them for me. Make me feel good, in an OCD/completionist sort of way, that I'm all caught up now.

For some reason this makes me feel bad.

Araneae6537

An item that hasn’t been available unbound in YEARS not be for sale except at high price is hardly market manipulation. And most items are too common and the traders too many for “market manipulation” to even be feasible for the expensive materials most people complain about.

h9dlb

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Buy or buy not, there is no cry.

(Sorry Yoda, it kinda worked...)

No marionette no cry - Bob Marley