Average DPS Per Person, Per Content?

RunningShadow

Hi forum-goers!

All sorts of damage numbers get thrown around depending on your community. I've met people who struggle to hit 10k, and others who can hit 100k. But what I'm wondering is, what you would consider to be the average DPS as a number or number range, required per person (in a group of 2x damage dealers) to complete the different kinds of group content in the game (assuming everyone knows mechanics, which can be a big ask sometimes itself).

I'm not looking for the DPS needed to burn past mechanics, just enough to have a smooth run. I'm interested in any and all content types ranging from nDungeon (Base Game) to vTrials (Chapters). Even solo arenas if you have an opinion! I just want a base reference point I can point others to, and for myself.

DocFrost72

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

RunningShadow

This is a very nice overall breakdown. It covers what I wanted to know exactly, and I love the positivity. Thank you very much!

boi_anachronism_

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

To eek out a clear for mol yeah you can do it at 35k. For a smooth run like the op suggested? Everyone should be at 50k or above. When people were hitting 35k that was on a 6m or a 3m which is unbuffed because the 21m didnt exist yet, there was no way to test buffed dps at that point. 25k (on a 21m) per player is just not reasonable for vet dlc trials. Keep in mind that trials like rockgrove were designed for power creep.

Beyond that- take it from someone who tried a lot of vet trials with a lot of very low dps crews early on: its not fun. 40k is super manageable with oaken and heavy builds for even the newest players, dont put yourself through that kind of misery. Clearing storm atros at the ice boss in vss at 25k will leave you completely overwhelmed.


The some of the much newer vet dlc dungeons like shipwright you should realistically be doing about 25k to clear. They are a little different. Certain mechanics will leave you overwhelmed if you cant clears adds quickly enough.

Most of the rest is accurate.

DocFrost72

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

To eek out a clear for mol yeah you can do it at 35k. For a smooth run like the op suggested? Everyone should be at 50k or above. When people were hitting 35k that was on a 6m or a 3m which is unbuffed because the 21m didnt exist yet, there was no way to test buffed dps at that point. 25k (on a 21m) per player is just not reasonable for vet dlc trials. Keep in mind that trials like rockgrove were designed for power creep.

Beyond that- take it from someone who tried a lot of vet trials with a lot of very low dps crews early on: its not fun. 40k is super manageable with oaken and heavy builds for even the newest players, dont put yourself through that kind of misery. Clearing storm atros at the ice boss in vss at 25k will leave you completely overwhelmed.


The some of the much newer vet dlc dungeons like shipwright you should realistically be doing about 25k to clear. They are a little different. Certain mechanics will leave you overwhelmed if you cant clears adds quickly enough.

Most of the rest is accurate.

I perhaps should have been a bit more clear. Those numbers are based on 3/6 mil dummies. I appreciate the trial dummy for what it is, certainly. I just prefer to be pleasantly surprised in a raid, so I go for the 3 or 6 understanding my dps will be far, far higher in a raid!

My magicka templar pulls 39k on a 3 mil and around 37k on the 6 mil. That would easily be enough to clear anything, and nowhere near enough to push score, that's more my point.

Thank you for the response!

Soarora

It really depends. Some content has DPS checks, some don’t. I’d just go for as high DPS as you can while still enjoying your build rather than the base amount required to get by because even if you have enough DPS to scrape by that doesn’t mean everyone will be okay with you in their group. Trial guilds usually have DPS reqs (I checked one of mine and the lowest parse req is 56k, but also keep in mind the guild only does veteran trials) and in dungeons people tend to get grumpy when they’re doing 80% of the DPS.

Based on my experience growing as a DPS, 75/80k was fine. 90k is good. 100k is great. Anything beyond 100k is sweaty and just needed for some trial HMs (RG/DSR). I would not suggest doing veteran content with a 20k parse unless you find likeminded people to prog with. I’d say go for at least 50k before doing vet content. Trial dummy parse. In-content numbers are always going to be wildly different depending on a lot of circumstances.

Soarora

DocFrost72 wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

To eek out a clear for mol yeah you can do it at 35k. For a smooth run like the op suggested? Everyone should be at 50k or above. When people were hitting 35k that was on a 6m or a 3m which is unbuffed because the 21m didnt exist yet, there was no way to test buffed dps at that point. 25k (on a 21m) per player is just not reasonable for vet dlc trials. Keep in mind that trials like rockgrove were designed for power creep.

Beyond that- take it from someone who tried a lot of vet trials with a lot of very low dps crews early on: its not fun. 40k is super manageable with oaken and heavy builds for even the newest players, dont put yourself through that kind of misery. Clearing storm atros at the ice boss in vss at 25k will leave you completely overwhelmed.


The some of the much newer vet dlc dungeons like shipwright you should realistically be doing about 25k to clear. They are a little different. Certain mechanics will leave you overwhelmed if you cant clears adds quickly enough.

Most of the rest is accurate.

I perhaps should have been a bit more clear. Those numbers are based on 3/6 mil dummies. I appreciate the trial dummy for what it is, certainly. I just prefer to be pleasantly surprised in a raid, so I go for the 3 or 6 understanding my dps will be far, far higher in a raid!

My magicka templar pulls 39k on a 3 mil and around 37k on the 6 mil. That would easily be enough to clear anything, and nowhere near enough to push score, that's more my point.

Thank you for the response!

Ahhh haha very big difference between those and the trial dummy. I think multiplying the 6mil parse by 2x is how to approximate it on the trial dummy? When ZOS buffed the trial dummy and killed peoples DPS at the same time (U35) all my knowledge got a little messed up so I’m not sure if that approximation method is still accurate or if it ever was.

phaneub17_ESO

My companion does more damage than me

boi_anachronism_

Realistically 50k on a 21m can get you through the vast majority of content in the game. It may not be fast and it may not be pretty but it will get you there. Obviously you won't be score pushing with those numbers but you can clear all 4man and all reg vet trials at that level. Once you get into things like trial hms its super trial specific. The outstanding example of this is vrghm. Final boss requires a bare bones min of 90k on the 21m. Its a hard dps check.

RunningShadow

Yeah, I probably should've clarified Trial Dummy or not.

Soarora wrote: »

I think multiplying the 6mil parse by 2x is how to approximate it on the trial dummy?

I think this is about accurate, at least in my experience. I hit 50k DPS on trial dummy, and ~25-30k on the 3/6mil. It might also depend how many self-buffs you can keep up, I guess. I'm a bow/bow nightblade who just tries to make whatever build I enjoy into something viable for the content I enjoy. I'm not looking to score-push, but I do want to see the Trials. And while I've collected a number of vet DLC dungeon trophies, I wasn't sure if I was up to any vet Trials just yet. 300+ ping (courtesy of remote internet) also hampers a bit, but I try to compensate by having mechanics down too, as much as possible.

At this point I'm not sure I want to put a trial group through my ping on veteran, or necessarily vet DLC dungeon hardmodes, but from what I've gathered for what I want to do (all group content, maybe Craglorn vTrials, no hardmodes), I'm all set. And now I have some good references to tell others in my social groups where to aim!

boi_anachronism_

RunningShadow wrote: »

Yeah, I probably should've clarified Trial Dummy or not.

Soarora wrote: »

I think multiplying the 6mil parse by 2x is how to approximate it on the trial dummy?

I think this is about accurate, at least in my experience. I hit 50k DPS on trial dummy, and ~25-30k on the 3/6mil. It might also depend how many self-buffs you can keep up, I guess. I'm a bow/bow nightblade who just tries to make whatever build I enjoy into something viable for the content I enjoy. I'm not looking to score-push, but I do want to see the Trials. And while I've collected a number of vet DLC dungeon trophies, I wasn't sure if I was up to any vet Trials just yet. 300+ ping (courtesy of remote internet) also hampers a bit, but I try to compensate by having mechanics down too, as much as possible.

At this point I'm not sure I want to put a trial group through my ping on veteran, or necessarily vet DLC dungeon hardmodes, but from what I've gathered for what I want to do (all group content, maybe Craglorn vTrials, no hardmodes), I'm all set. And now I have some good references to tell others in my social groups where to aim!

Yeah 2x is roughly correct. I hit about 115k on a 21m and about 55k on a 6m.

AcadianPaladin

I appreciate the insights informing that the 21m trial dummy basically doubles your dps. That makes me feel pretty good. I don't have any interest in trials, favoring soloing non-DLC WBs and non-DLC dungeons. Therefore I take my dps from runs vs an easier WB or 3m dummy and it seems my numbers there are reasonably good. Based on my setup, I can get between 23 - 33k dps.

Quethrosar

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

WrathOfInnos

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

ElderSmitter

Just remember a dead DPS does no DPS. Trial Dummies are for Practice. Many players adjust their bar differently on a Trial dummy to bloat their DPS then what they have during Trials or Dungeon runs. Same for 3 Mill dummies. Some Trials require you to have a burst heal during certain phases for instance so that slot will take away DPS for instance. 3 mill dummies require you to use Breach for optimal DPS. So basically, they are just for practicing to get your main rotation down and for tinkering and trying new stuff. If you're Struggling to hit 50-60k on a Trial dummy you're not going to be ready for most Vet trials but 100% ok for Normal Trials and Vet Dungeons. Best of Luck!

boi_anachronism_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

WrathOfInnos

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

El_Borracho

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Realistically 50k on a 21m can get you through the vast majority of content in the game. It may not be fast and it may not be pretty but it will get you there. Obviously you won't be score pushing with those numbers but you can clear all 4man and all reg vet trials at that level. Once you get into things like trial hms its super trial specific. The outstanding example of this is vrghm. Final boss requires a bare bones min of 90k on the 21m. Its a hard dps check.

I think this is spot-on. Most of the newer content tends to be controlled burn, like the bosses in vSE, instead of a DPS check.

I would have thrown the vMOL final boss in there as an example of a strong DPS check, but that is wildly outdated. The portals in vSS are a decent example of a non-hard mode DPS check these days. vCR portals to a lesser degree. Basically, if you can clear the ring or wraiths on the final boss in vet Vateshran, your DPS is sufficient for vet trials.

MudcrabAttack

RunningShadow wrote: »

Yeah, I probably should've clarified Trial Dummy or not.

Soarora wrote: »

I think multiplying the 6mil parse by 2x is how to approximate it on the trial dummy?

I think this is about accurate, at least in my experience. I hit 50k DPS on trial dummy, and ~25-30k on the 3/6mil. It might also depend how many self-buffs you can keep up, I guess. I'm a bow/bow nightblade who just tries to make whatever build I enjoy into something viable for the content I enjoy. I'm not looking to score-push, but I do want to see the Trials. And while I've collected a number of vet DLC dungeon trophies, I wasn't sure if I was up to any vet Trials just yet. 300+ ping (courtesy of remote internet) also hampers a bit, but I try to compensate by having mechanics down too, as much as possible.

At this point I'm not sure I want to put a trial group through my ping on veteran, or necessarily vet DLC dungeon hardmodes, but from what I've gathered for what I want to do (all group content, maybe Craglorn vTrials, no hardmodes), I'm all set. And now I have some good references to tell others in my social groups where to aim!

I still love to log onto my nightblade archer sometimes, 30k for a 3 million dummy should be plenty for non-hm portal type roles in vet DLC trials, 45k+ can usually handle the HM portals. The 3 million dummy is a decent test for portal performance since regeneration is mostly up to you. A Nightblade archer brings a lot to a portal job, lots of built in penetration from flank / rear and extra crit damage, it’s somewhat easier for a nightblade to add-in regeneration and self healing while dealing damage, and versatile with using more magic skills or more stamina skills, whichever your build can sustain. The bow build has gotten me through pretty much every HM portal there is in the game, Bahsei portal is more pain in the butt for stamblade but still do-able

boi_anachronism_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

There are situations where coral and bahsei are optimal. Coral is pretty easily to upkeep for arcs and when running MK its the best synergizing set since they have very similar requirements for proc.

WrathOfInnos

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

There are situations where coral and bahsei are optimal. Coral is pretty easily to upkeep for arcs and when running MK its the best synergizing set since they have very similar requirements for proc.

Bahsei is never optimal. It is a light armor set that can't be used effectively on front bar weapons, and there is no possible way to maintain zero magicka. Even if you could, "12%" cap is not great as it gets diminished with other buffs.

Coral can be theoretically optimal, and does have nice synergy with MK because it rewards the user for keeping high uptimes, and the whole group can benefit. I still wouldn't recommend Coral to any non-MK build, since realistically they will perform better with something like Whorl of the Depths (assuming a stationary fight). People seem to go to Coral on Arcanist simply because they need an alternative for Relequen it, but they do not keep stamina low enough for it to perform.

No offense intended here, I don't mean it as a judgement of skill. Even the top Arcanist logs on Taleria show the struggle for keeping low stamina, basically staying between 50% and 75% stamina for the 2nd half of the fight (https://www.esologs.com/reports/kjq9W12GRdbMQm8w#fight=51&type=resources&source=4&spell=101). With an average of 50% stamina, the 5-piece bonus ends up giving about 7% damage, or 9-10k DPS in this example. If the entire fight was completed under 33% stamina, that would be 9% damage, or 12k DPS. For reference, the Rele proc from a Templar in the same group was 12-13k DPS, and the Depths proc can reach 11k single target (https://www.esologs.com/reports/bHVcNtazvJnyTDZQ#fight=48&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss&source=15)

I suspect this will become more obvious players swap from Pillar of Nirn to Deadly Strikes after the patch (and therefore need a front bar slayer set), but that will depend on how well Arcanist is able to proc Aegis Caller between beams. Cloak and Barbed Trap do not work to proc the Aegis, and only the first tick of Carve and Stampede can, not the DoT ticks.

boi_anachronism_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

There are situations where coral and bahsei are optimal. Coral is pretty easily to upkeep for arcs and when running MK its the best synergizing set since they have very similar requirements for proc.

Bahsei is never optimal. It is a light armor set that can't be used effectively on front bar weapons, and there is no possible way to maintain zero magicka. Even if you could, "12%" cap is not great as it gets diminished with other buffs.

Coral can be theoretically optimal, and does have nice synergy with MK because it rewards the user for keeping high uptimes, and the whole group can benefit. I still wouldn't recommend Coral to any non-MK build, since realistically they will perform better with something like Whorl of the Depths (assuming a stationary fight). People seem to go to Coral on Arcanist simply because they need an alternative for Relequen it, but they do not keep stamina low enough for it to perform.

No offense intended here, I don't mean it as a judgement of skill. Even the top Arcanist logs on Taleria show the struggle for keeping low stamina, basically staying between 50% and 75% stamina for the 2nd half of the fight (https://www.esologs.com/reports/kjq9W12GRdbMQm8w#fight=51&type=resources&source=4&spell=101). With an average of 50% stamina, the 5-piece bonus ends up giving about 7% damage, or 9-10k DPS in this example. If the entire fight was completed under 33% stamina, that would be 9% damage, or 12k DPS. For reference, the Rele proc from a Templar in the same group was 12-13k DPS, and the Depths proc can reach 11k single target (https://www.esologs.com/reports/bHVcNtazvJnyTDZQ#fight=48&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss&source=15)

I suspect this will become more obvious players swap from Pillar of Nirn to Deadly Strikes after the patch (and therefore need a front bar slayer set), but that will depend on how well Arcanist is able to proc Aegis Caller between beams. Cloak and Barbed Trap do not work to proc the Aegis, and only the first tick of Carve and Stampede can, not the DoT ticks.

As far as bansei goes i have had excellent uptimes on it for vas2 specifically because i have to manage my own sustain, same with coral so taleria and in general bosses where you are 100% in range of your healer they tend to work a lot less well. One of the guys on my trip skip team runs coral very well by using spell power gyphs for jewlery as opposed to weapon and tweaking his build a bit here and there, we are talking upwards of 115k in content. We thoroughly tested whorl for that team and overall it just did a lot less damage. Like every other set they are very content dependent.

OtarTheMad

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

I wish this was more widely known, truly. I’ve seen so many players come and go because they look at the dps others are posting, 100k this and 110k that, and then see there 20k-30k and just quit the game.

If you are just logging in to have a good time with some friends or solo and do some content… you don’t need a lot of dps. BUT if you want to score push and do other stuff like that then yeah you need top end dps.

WrathOfInnos

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

There are situations where coral and bahsei are optimal. Coral is pretty easily to upkeep for arcs and when running MK its the best synergizing set since they have very similar requirements for proc.

Bahsei is never optimal. It is a light armor set that can't be used effectively on front bar weapons, and there is no possible way to maintain zero magicka. Even if you could, "12%" cap is not great as it gets diminished with other buffs.

Coral can be theoretically optimal, and does have nice synergy with MK because it rewards the user for keeping high uptimes, and the whole group can benefit. I still wouldn't recommend Coral to any non-MK build, since realistically they will perform better with something like Whorl of the Depths (assuming a stationary fight). People seem to go to Coral on Arcanist simply because they need an alternative for Relequen it, but they do not keep stamina low enough for it to perform.

No offense intended here, I don't mean it as a judgement of skill. Even the top Arcanist logs on Taleria show the struggle for keeping low stamina, basically staying between 50% and 75% stamina for the 2nd half of the fight (https://www.esologs.com/reports/kjq9W12GRdbMQm8w#fight=51&type=resources&source=4&spell=101). With an average of 50% stamina, the 5-piece bonus ends up giving about 7% damage, or 9-10k DPS in this example. If the entire fight was completed under 33% stamina, that would be 9% damage, or 12k DPS. For reference, the Rele proc from a Templar in the same group was 12-13k DPS, and the Depths proc can reach 11k single target (https://www.esologs.com/reports/bHVcNtazvJnyTDZQ#fight=48&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss&source=15)

I suspect this will become more obvious players swap from Pillar of Nirn to Deadly Strikes after the patch (and therefore need a front bar slayer set), but that will depend on how well Arcanist is able to proc Aegis Caller between beams. Cloak and Barbed Trap do not work to proc the Aegis, and only the first tick of Carve and Stampede can, not the DoT ticks.

As far as bansei goes i have had excellent uptimes on it for vas2 specifically because i have to manage my own sustain, same with coral so taleria and in general bosses where you are 100% in range of your healer they tend to work a lot less well. One of the guys on my trip skip team runs coral very well by using spell power gyphs for jewlery as opposed to weapon and tweaking his build a bit here and there, we are talking upwards of 115k in content. We thoroughly tested whorl for that team and overall it just did a lot less damage. Like every other set they are very content dependent.

Play the way you want. I won’t tell you what gear to wear. Your team’s gear choices do not affect me.

I’m just stating some facts for anyone else who may be reading this looking for gear advice. I wouldn’t want them to get misled into farming Bahsei or Coral chasing the meta, then be disappointed when their damage decreases.

Necrotech_Master

OtarTheMad wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Normal dungeons: 10k
Normal dlc dungeons: 15k
Crag Normal trials: 15k
Vet story 1 Dungeons: 15K
Vet story 2 dungeons: 15k
Normal DSA: 15k
Dlc Vet dungeons: 20k
DLC Normal trials: 20k
Vet DSA: 20K
Vet DLC trials: 25k (though some like HoF I'd put a 30k on)

People forget the hard floor for damage on Vet MoL, one of those ones people think you need 50k+ dps for, came out with thieves guild years ago and at the time 30-35k dps (group buffed) was great. Iirc, the first boss has a hard floor of 8 dps doing 28k dps (roughly).

The numbers for clears are way lower than you think. The numbers for score pushing are way higher than you think too, mind, but that's not relevant to your question.

ANY setup can do 15-20k, don't care who the player is. A dot plus spammable on a character with armor and class passives can pull those numbers. Worry about learning the mechanics, then start perfecting a rotation.

Whoever is reading this, you can do it. I believe in you. Have fun o7

I wish this was more widely known, truly. I’ve seen so many players come and go because they look at the dps others are posting, 100k this and 110k that, and then see there 20k-30k and just quit the game.

If you are just logging in to have a good time with some friends or solo and do some content… you don’t need a lot of dps. BUT if you want to score push and do other stuff like that then yeah you need top end dps.

i think theres also a thing people dont take into account, buffs and such

parsing on the trial dummy or optimized group, you have significantly more buffs available

parsing on a 3 or 6 mil dummy, or running content solo or in a non optimized group, dmg numbers are going to be lower, and i think most people expect when they see someone hitting 100k dps, its in all content, not only more idealized scenarios

boi_anachronism_

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Quethrosar wrote: »

i am still trying to figure out how someone who parses 125k and i parse 110k can beat me in content by 30% or more even if my weave is working well lol.

@Quethrosar Sounds like a good example of how dummies don’t really prepare players for hard content. I mean, it is necessary to establish an effective build and rotation beforehand, but there’s much more to it in many boss enounters. Things like pre-placing ground DoTs before it spawns, holding off on placing ground DoTs if it is about to move, and standing in the right spot to receive buffs matter a lot. Many players also lean on difficult sets on dummies (like Coral Riptide, Bahsei or Siroria), where they would be better off in something easy like Whorl of the Depths or Relequen in content.

Relequen is not a particularly easy upkeep set if you want to maintain damage and aren't real good at weaving, it is also single target only. Stacks drop quick. If your boss moves, like cloudrest for example your stacks are probably gone. What people fail to realize is that there is no one and done sets. You should be tailoring your gear to what content you are playing as much as possible. Siroria i would never choose in rockgrove for instance but id take it all day for sunspire dragons. Whorl is great for trash packs but again if your boss moves you could just end up getting a tick or 2 with most of your aoe left behind. Its absolutely stand out it arenas. I never suggest bahsei to newer dps. 9/10 its a net damage loss as its difficult to maintain, even more then coral by a wide margin. Skinny cheeks does a really good breakdown gear tiers and most importantly what kind of content each set would be s, a, b tier ect. I highly recommend folks take a peek if you haven't already.

Yeah, I’ll agree on most of those points. I recall keeping near full uptime on Siroria stacks for Yolnahkriin back when most groups thought False Gods was meta (lol, sustain was bad then). I think Rele is good for most boss fights, even if you lose a little cleave, but it’s true there are a few where it performs poorly. Whorl on trash depends a lot on the group DPS, often there are no enemies remaining by the time it makes an AoE. Coral and Bahsei are kinda bait, I’d increase that estimate to at least 99% of players are better without these sets (myself included).

There are situations where coral and bahsei are optimal. Coral is pretty easily to upkeep for arcs and when running MK its the best synergizing set since they have very similar requirements for proc.

Bahsei is never optimal. It is a light armor set that can't be used effectively on front bar weapons, and there is no possible way to maintain zero magicka. Even if you could, "12%" cap is not great as it gets diminished with other buffs.

Coral can be theoretically optimal, and does have nice synergy with MK because it rewards the user for keeping high uptimes, and the whole group can benefit. I still wouldn't recommend Coral to any non-MK build, since realistically they will perform better with something like Whorl of the Depths (assuming a stationary fight). People seem to go to Coral on Arcanist simply because they need an alternative for Relequen it, but they do not keep stamina low enough for it to perform.

No offense intended here, I don't mean it as a judgement of skill. Even the top Arcanist logs on Taleria show the struggle for keeping low stamina, basically staying between 50% and 75% stamina for the 2nd half of the fight (https://www.esologs.com/reports/kjq9W12GRdbMQm8w#fight=51&type=resources&source=4&spell=101). With an average of 50% stamina, the 5-piece bonus ends up giving about 7% damage, or 9-10k DPS in this example. If the entire fight was completed under 33% stamina, that would be 9% damage, or 12k DPS. For reference, the Rele proc from a Templar in the same group was 12-13k DPS, and the Depths proc can reach 11k single target (https://www.esologs.com/reports/bHVcNtazvJnyTDZQ#fight=48&type=damage-done&targetclass=Boss&source=15)

I suspect this will become more obvious players swap from Pillar of Nirn to Deadly Strikes after the patch (and therefore need a front bar slayer set), but that will depend on how well Arcanist is able to proc Aegis Caller between beams. Cloak and Barbed Trap do not work to proc the Aegis, and only the first tick of Carve and Stampede can, not the DoT ticks.

As far as bansei goes i have had excellent uptimes on it for vas2 specifically because i have to manage my own sustain, same with coral so taleria and in general bosses where you are 100% in range of your healer they tend to work a lot less well. One of the guys on my trip skip team runs coral very well by using spell power gyphs for jewlery as opposed to weapon and tweaking his build a bit here and there, we are talking upwards of 115k in content. We thoroughly tested whorl for that team and overall it just did a lot less damage. Like every other set they are very content dependent.

Play the way you want. I won’t tell you what gear to wear. Your team’s gear choices do not affect me.

I’m just stating some facts for anyone else who may be reading this looking for gear advice. I wouldn’t want them to get misled into farming Bahsei or Coral chasing the meta, then be disappointed when their damage decreases.

Welp the vast majority of people arent doing the content for which you would choose this kind of gear which as i already mentioned is highly specific and its also dependent on your raid leads comp choices. These are also build specific to make them work properly, as i said my raid mate tailored his bild to use the sets optimally. I also already said i dont recommend it for most players. When bahsei was considered meta i actively discouraged newer players from using it for that reason and instead suggested flat stat sets which makes it much easier to hit decent number both in content and for parsing especially early on. Heck orders wrath and mothers sorrow can net you 90k.