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Orc attitudes towards werewolves?

Danikat
Danikat
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Oddly specific question, but is the orcs attitude towards werewolves any different to most people in Tamriel?

For example I know redguards are especially opposed to necromancers because of the importance they place on laying their ancestors to rest, whereas dunmer have a...complicated relationship with them because they will use their own ancestors in ways that are not entirely different to necromancy but are vehermently opposed to anyone else doing so. Is there anything like that for orcs and werewolves?

The reason I'm asking is I've finally got Necrom so I'm putting the final touches on an orc arcanist and I'm thinking of making him a werewolf as well, because I don't have one yet and I think it'd fit his personality and backstory (I don't care if it makes a good build) but I'm not sure how that might affect his relationship with other orcs. I assume they'd be opposed to it, but I'm not sure if it would be treated any better or worse than usual.

(Largely unrelated but this is also making me wish we had other forms of lycanthropy available to players. I'd love him to be a werebear or wereboar instead of a wolf, but that's not an option.)
Edited by Danikat on October 8, 2023 12:48PM
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  • LunaFlora
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    i believe orcs think of werewolves the same as the other peoples. not good, fear, and such.
    unless they worship hircine
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  • jlmurra2
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    I'm certain opinions would vary between orcs.

    For orcs who follow Hircine, well no explanation needed.

    For those that follow Malacath, and do not accept Lycanthropy or those cursed/blessed with it, would this lead to spurning, or ostracization of the werewolf orc? Being spurned, ostracized, making broken promises, and being in anguish are all within Malacath's sphere. So Malacath could easily still be understood as the patron of a orc werewolf, both or either by being accepted or rejected. I hope future game explore this.

    The creation stories explaining the Savior's Hide have credited both Malacath and Hircine in past games: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Savior's_Hide

    As for "city orcs", they would likely be the most rejecting of lycanthropy.
  • w002exp
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    jlmurra2 wrote: »
    I'm certain opinions would vary between orcs.

    For orcs who follow Hircine, well no explanation needed.

    For those that follow Malacath, and do not accept Lycanthropy or those cursed/blessed with it, would this lead to spurning, or ostracization of the werewolf orc? Being spurned, ostracized, making broken promises, and being in anguish are all within Malacath's sphere. So Malacath could easily still be understood as the patron of a orc werewolf, both or either by being accepted or rejected. I hope future game explore this.

    The creation stories explaining the Savior's Hide have credited both Malacath and Hircine in past games: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Savior's_Hide

    As for "city orcs", they would likely be the most rejecting of lycanthropy.

    This sort of reminds me that I have always wondered about vampires relationships with Azura, as the icon of dusk and dawn. Of course they come from Molag Bal but could they have found salvation under another prince that occupies their hemisphere. Certainly we know Meridia hates vampires. But you can see that typical tropes for vampires fall into many different daedric realms.
  • NotaDaedraWorshipper
    NotaDaedraWorshipper
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    w002exp wrote: »
    jlmurra2 wrote: »
    I'm certain opinions would vary between orcs.

    For orcs who follow Hircine, well no explanation needed.

    For those that follow Malacath, and do not accept Lycanthropy or those cursed/blessed with it, would this lead to spurning, or ostracization of the werewolf orc? Being spurned, ostracized, making broken promises, and being in anguish are all within Malacath's sphere. So Malacath could easily still be understood as the patron of a orc werewolf, both or either by being accepted or rejected. I hope future game explore this.

    The creation stories explaining the Savior's Hide have credited both Malacath and Hircine in past games: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Savior's_Hide

    As for "city orcs", they would likely be the most rejecting of lycanthropy.

    This sort of reminds me that I have always wondered about vampires relationships with Azura, as the icon of dusk and dawn. Of course they come from Molag Bal but could they have found salvation under another prince that occupies their hemisphere. Certainly we know Meridia hates vampires. But you can see that typical tropes for vampires fall into many different daedric realms.

    @w002exp In TES4 so has some of Azura's worshippers turned into vampires. They trapped themselves in a mine waiting for Azura to send someone to kill them, and upon completion of the quest Azura mentions how they are with her now.
    There's also Vastarie. She's not a vampire, but a lich, so another undead creature, and she's a devoted and seemingly loved worshipper of Azura.

    Sanguine is related to vampirism in Khajiit belief, and the Hollowfang Clan are devoted to him.

    Clavicus Vile made a deal with the Cyrodiilic vampire order and they have him as a kind of patron.

    So yes, vampires can avoid Molag Bal by being devoted to other princes who accept them. Most princes doesn't seem to care much what mortals are or are conflicted with. Meridia is the only one we know of who clearly does and don't want anything to do with undead besides killing them.
    [Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!
  • Prophet_of_Malacath
    We don't see much in the way of Orc opinions on Werewolves (or Vampires) but no people are a monolith.

    On Orcs:
    I feel compelled to point out, however, that we do see Ogrim & Dremora (o the Doomdriven Clan) openly welcome in some Strongholds - not unlike the honored dead visiting the Dunmer, the Hist singing unto the Saxhleel or the Bosmer with their forest. Orcs are not so primitive and leery as the misbegotten beratu.

    Neither do they avoid magic - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Khazasha, a wisewoman of a traditional clan, very clearly discusses blood magic, enchanting and portals. Clan Morkul also had a famous blood forge, recently reopened. Even in cities, Orc magi don't fear magic so much as respect it. Gods hear our prayer, the malignant manmer might find it find to murder one another but the Code of Mauloch forbids this, and thus Orcs understand to respect spellcraft that could harm one's kin.

    On Wolves
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:March_of_Sacrifices features https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Balorgh - sent by Vykosa as some kind of plot for vengeance. They see lycanthropy not as a blessing, but as a curse, because Vykosa was once a great hunter and now feels reduced to being a mere hare - she foolishly accepted Hircine's "gifts" only to discover werewolves live like rabbits, constantly on the run to avoid being slain. She wants to hunt Hircine himself.

    Mixing the Two:
    We do see prominent Mephala worship among Orcs in Morkul Descent and Fungal Grotto II - she was Mauloch's ally in TES2. Likewise, it's two Orcs who lead Azura's worshippers in Stormhaven. In Fargrave, a city Orc priest serves Dibella. Orcs often seem henotheistic (worship one god, despite acknowledging others) but Malacath - despite recounting sins from Old Orsinium - never once curses Morkul stronghold (whose Mephala cult ran the bloodforge, whose armaments strengthened the city).

    In RP, werewolf is often "popular" for certain stronghold orcs.

    If anything, I suggest syncretizing. For example, take Vampires:
    • Nords see Orkey as the Orc progenitor & Mauloch as a separate god. Orkey is a death god. And then we have the Blood Price.
    • IRL, Etruscan "Orcus" was "god of the underworld & punisher of broken oaths". He's the IRL inspiration for Orcs & Ogres.
    • COMBINED - it would be a lot easier for an Orc Vampire in Skyrim to appeal to local lore - maybe say Mauloch refused to take her due to some unpaid crimes, so he was given to Orkey to serve the dead, pursuing the blood price against killers. You could get buy-in from local Nords by appealing to Nordic stories instead of "importing" the sort of "goth victorian" silliness from High Rock.

    A good example is seen in https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ulthorn - who serves Hircine & works along the Wood Orcs, presenting himself often as a wolf-spirit to the shamanistic Orcs. Likewise, in Deadlands, we see Khazasha's clan had a spirit bear as a totem.

    So Orc religion is not as monolithic as some think.
    And it's less about "what you are" & more about "how you sell it".
    Edited by Prophet_of_Malacath on February 7, 2024 4:02PM
    The Pariah's Forge is an Orsimer-focused Discord RP Hub: https://discord.gg/KfuWGFDXJC
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