Question: Think they'll ever add Subraces as a thing, at least for Khajiit?

KaironBlackbard

Because I know Khajiit have 16+ Subraces.
Other Races might as well, but I know Khajiit do.

KaironBlackbard

Could do something like change customization a little bit, maybe a racial skill or two.
Like determine Digitigrade (Animal Paw Feet) or Plantigrade (Human-like Feet).
And alter minimum and maximum heights, thicknesses, and lengths.
Expand or limit Patterns and Adornments.
ETC.

Katahdin

Doubt it

If they did it for one, they would have to do something for all the races.

Treeshka

The thing is some of those fur stocks can be done with the regular character creation. It is not perfect but can be done. But i do not expect Alfiq or Senche fur stocks will be there for players to play. No chance of that.

Tandor

No, nor do I see a need for it. However, others may feel differently and who knows what goes into the discussions at ZOS about such things! It does sound a somewhat massive exercise, however, and I suspect most players would consider adding a new playable race more important than adding sub-races to existing ones.

Galiferno

We need separate Colovian and Nibenese races.

KaironBlackbard

Though, in all honesty, it would be more like this:

• Man
  • Breton
  • Redguard
  • Nord
  • Imperial
• Mer
  • Aldmeri (High Elves)
  • Dunmer (Dark Elves)
  • Wood Elves
  • Sea Elves (unplayable)
  • Would you classify Orc (Orsimer) here?
• Khajiit
  • Quadrupeds (will never be playable)
    • Alfiq (unplayable)
    • Alfiq-Raht (unplayable)
    • Senche (unplayable)
    • Senche-Raht (unplayable)
  • Bipedals
    • Plantigrade
      • Cathay (Common)
      • Cathay-Raht (Common-ish)
      • Dagi (unplayable)
      • Dagi-Raht (unplayable)
      • Ohmes (not seen, unplayable)
      • Ohmes-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Pahmar (unplayable)
      • Pahmar-Raht (unplayable)
    • Digitigrade (currently unplayable, also not seen)
      • Suthay (not seen, unplayable)
      • Suthay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Tojay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
    • Unknown
      • Mane (will never be playable)
        • Tend to be Cathay, or Plantigrade, so far as I've heard
      • Tojay (not seen as far as I know, probably currently unplayable)
• Argonian
• Other
  • Orc (If not classified as Mer)
  • Minotaur (unplayable)
  • Faun (unplayable)
  • Dremora (unplayable, but there is a polymorph {I dislike polymorphs greatly because they lack the substance and reactions of actually being that race or creature})
  • Others, too many to list

Though, As is now, I'd say the races are fine, only Khajiit (and maybe Argonian) could use some Subraces, or at least extra character customization.

• Khajiit
  • Cathay (Common/Base)
  • Pahmar (Allow us to access larger Customizations, Oversizing to max of Pahmar size)
  • Dagi (Allow us smaller minimum size, to be like that of Dagi, and in doing so also locking or limiting ear types/adornments to have those lynx-like ears that All Dagi have)
  • Suthay/Tojay-Raht (Allow us a normal size limited section with Digitigrade Legs, to be these subraces)
  • But Overall, no real race or skill changes, just appearance really, and probably model skeleton as well for some of those factors, like Digitigrade Legs...
• Argonain
  • Nothing really needed (other than separating scale pattern from body marking)
  • Head Shape mostly, as seen in Murkmire... there's a few that you can't customize player-argonians into
    • Some have extra lumps or ridges that you can't apply to player

LunaFlora

maybe ohmes(-raht), dagi-raht, or pahmar
ohmes look like bosmer though ohmes-raht have tails and i think ears too so they're likely the easiest.

but because of the bosmer similarities it's easy to make a bosmer and pretend they're ohmes khajiit just like pretending your breton is reachfolk.

naga argonian would be fun to see too.

LadyLethalla

I'm still hoping there will be an Alfiq decon assistant. Every month I look forward to the Crown showcase but every month I'm disappointed ☹️

KaironBlackbard

I hate pretending, because the stats don't back it up. It lack the feeling of actually being it.
That's also the main reason I hate Polymorphs, they lack the feeling of actually being the creature.
Lich, for example. I'd expect to see people using the lich crystals just like the NPCs do, but they use powers that the lich doesn't have. It feels bad.
It feels broken, asymetric, not right, lacking, having the wrong capabilities, just wrong. I can't find the word(s) to describe it.
Ghost or Specter, would be like a new Curse, not a polymorph. You could phase or go invisible. You would have easier escapes. You might even be resistant to reveals. You'd be resistant to physical but weak to magic. You might even take less fall damage.

This is a thread about subraces, why'd I go into curses?
Eh.
Oh, maybe a new race-class system for some new races... and I better just make a new thread about that before this thread gets filled with non-subraces talk.

But as for subraces, I only really see that for Khajiit, and maybe Argonians, because Man and Mer technically already are subraces made as separate races. Eh, still waiting for their explanation. Too many races to deal with probably. But still, would suit the setting nicely.

haelene

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Though, in all honesty, it would be more like this:

• Man
  • Breton
  • Redguard
  • Nord
  • Imperial
• Mer
  • Aldmeri (High Elves)
  • Dunmer (Dark Elves)
  • Wood Elves
  • Sea Elves (unplayable)
  • Would you classify Orc (Orsimer) here?
• Khajiit
  • Quadrupeds (will never be playable)
    • Alfiq (unplayable)
    • Alfiq-Raht (unplayable)
    • Senche (unplayable)
    • Senche-Raht (unplayable)
  • Bipedals
    • Plantigrade
      • Cathay (Common)
      • Cathay-Raht (Common-ish)
      • Dagi (unplayable)
      • Dagi-Raht (unplayable)
      • Ohmes (not seen, unplayable)
      • Ohmes-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Pahmar (unplayable)
      • Pahmar-Raht (unplayable)
    • Digitigrade (currently unplayable, also not seen)
      • Suthay (not seen, unplayable)
      • Suthay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Tojay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
    • Unknown
      • Mane (will never be playable)
        • Tend to be Cathay, or Plantigrade, so far as I've heard
      • Tojay (not seen as far as I know, probably currently unplayable)
• Argonian
• Other
  • Orc (If not classified as Mer)
  • Minotaur (unplayable)
  • Faun (unplayable)
  • Dremora (unplayable, but there is a polymorph {I dislike polymorphs greatly because they lack the substance and reactions of actually being that race or creature})
  • Others, too many to list

Though, As is now, I'd say the races are fine, only Khajiit (and maybe Argonian) could use some Subraces, or at least extra character customization.

• Khajiit
  • Cathay (Common/Base)
  • Pahmar (Allow us to access larger Customizations, Oversizing to max of Pahmar size)
  • Dagi (Allow us smaller minimum size, to be like that of Dagi, and in doing so also locking or limiting ear types/adornments to have those lynx-like ears that All Dagi have)
  • Suthay/Tojay-Raht (Allow us a normal size limited section with Digitigrade Legs, to be these subraces)
  • But Overall, no real race or skill changes, just appearance really, and probably model skeleton as well for some of those factors, like Digitigrade Legs...
• Argonain
  • Nothing really needed (other than separating scale pattern from body marking)
  • Head Shape mostly, as seen in Murkmire... there's a few that you can't customize player-argonians into
    • Some have extra lumps or ridges that you can't apply to player

For Argonian as far as I understand it, there are different shapes that the hist can give them, like Naga, Paatru, and Sarpa that are different from the Saxheel we usually see. They're not really described as "sub-races" more like tribes, but if we're considering visuals and culture to be differences worthy enough of a "sub-race" then I think those would count.

I'm not an Argonian lore expert though, so Idk.

centime

Your second comment suggests changes that seem to be already largely possible in the character-creation phase, as Treeshka mentioned. Or am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong; I am not suggesting that it would be a *bad* idea, just wondering if it is actually needed, since we can basically create characters physically however we want. Also, since both fur patterns and adornments are/have been available in the crown store, it doesn't seem likely that ZOS would be willing to expand those things free of charge.

Also, I agree with Katahdin; if they did it for one race, they would have to do it for all. Things would get pretty cluttered, and I can see it snowballing with people chiming in about wanting myriad others added.

KaironBlackbard

You can't make Khajiit large enough to be Pahmar
You can't make Khajiit small enough to be Dagi
You can't apply Digitigrade Legs to your Khajiit, and are stuck with Plantigrade.
3 reworded: You can't apply animal legs/feet to your Khajiit, and are stuck with Human-like Legs/Feet.

KaironBlackbard

As for patterns, it's not about expanding, but separating.
We would love to be able to wear some paint on our stipes.
Whereas now why should we bother purchasing any paints when they delete our stripes?
That's the issue.
For those of use who only play Khajiit, they aren't making any money off us for paints because we lose our patterns when we try to put on paints. Realistically the pattern should stay and the paint work WITH it. NOT Delete it. Not Remove it. Work With it.
Separate Pattern from Paint/Tattoos.
That's the issue.

centime

I wasn't referring to "paints", rather, I was referring to actual patterns. For instance, a while back I bought a pattern of stripes that wasn't any sort of "paint"; it actually changed the pattern of stripes on my Khajiit. I agree, though, that there should be a way to "paint" stripes without altering/deleting their patterns.

TheGreatBlackBear

If the game was newer and coded for actual character customisation like Lost Ark or BDO or a to look at a single player game BG3 subraces or even new races would be a thing but this is an almost 10 year old game so I think that's what will hold it back. If we ever get an ESO 2 or a relaunch on a new engine it will be more likely.

cyclonus11

I want to roll a Naga-Kur.

benzenexz

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

Though, in all honesty, it would be more like this:

• Man
  • Breton
  • Redguard
  • Nord
  • Imperial
• Mer
  • Aldmeri (High Elves)
  • Dunmer (Dark Elves)
  • Wood Elves
  • Sea Elves (unplayable)
  • Would you classify Orc (Orsimer) here?
• Khajiit
  • Quadrupeds (will never be playable)
    • Alfiq (unplayable)
    • Alfiq-Raht (unplayable)
    • Senche (unplayable)
    • Senche-Raht (unplayable)
  • Bipedals
    • Plantigrade
      • Cathay (Common)
      • Cathay-Raht (Common-ish)
      • Dagi (unplayable)
      • Dagi-Raht (unplayable)
      • Ohmes (not seen, unplayable)
      • Ohmes-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Pahmar (unplayable)
      • Pahmar-Raht (unplayable)
    • Digitigrade (currently unplayable, also not seen)
      • Suthay (not seen, unplayable)
      • Suthay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
      • Tojay-Raht (not seen, unplayable)
    • Unknown
      • Mane (will never be playable)
        • Tend to be Cathay, or Plantigrade, so far as I've heard
      • Tojay (not seen as far as I know, probably currently unplayable)
• Argonian
• Other
  • Orc (If not classified as Mer)
  • Minotaur (unplayable)
  • Faun (unplayable)
  • Dremora (unplayable, but there is a polymorph {I dislike polymorphs greatly because they lack the substance and reactions of actually being that race or creature})
  • Others, too many to list

Though, As is now, I'd say the races are fine, only Khajiit (and maybe Argonian) could use some Subraces, or at least extra character customization.

• Khajiit
  • Cathay (Common/Base)
  • Pahmar (Allow us to access larger Customizations, Oversizing to max of Pahmar size)
  • Dagi (Allow us smaller minimum size, to be like that of Dagi, and in doing so also locking or limiting ear types/adornments to have those lynx-like ears that All Dagi have)
  • Suthay/Tojay-Raht (Allow us a normal size limited section with Digitigrade Legs, to be these subraces)
  • But Overall, no real race or skill changes, just appearance really, and probably model skeleton as well for some of those factors, like Digitigrade Legs...
• Argonain
  • Nothing really needed (other than separating scale pattern from body marking)
  • Head Shape mostly, as seen in Murkmire... there's a few that you can't customize player-argonians into
    • Some have extra lumps or ridges that you can't apply to player

Orcs are orsimer, originate from aldmers who worshipped Trinimac. After Tinimac was devoured by Boethia and became Malacath, so had those worshipper changed in appearance.

Wood elves are also called bosmer.

High elves are called altmer, the term "aldmer" refers to the common ancestor of mers, the ancient elf in mytheric era.

Sea elves are also called maomer.

There are other mers like wild elf (ayleid), deep elf (dwemer), lefthand elf (sinistral mer) that are extinct, and snow elf (falmer) that is been enslaved by dwemer, so definetly unplayable, same with some other man races or beastfolks.

zaria

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

As for patterns, it's not about expanding, but separating.
We would love to be able to wear some paint on our stipes.
Whereas now why should we bother purchasing any paints when they delete our stripes?
That's the issue.
For those of use who only play Khajiit, they aren't making any money off us for paints because we lose our patterns when we try to put on paints. Realistically the pattern should stay and the paint work WITH it. NOT Delete it. Not Remove it. Work With it.
Separate Pattern from Paint/Tattoos.
That's the issue.

Yes, this is annoying, having the overlay for stripes and spots is nice but its shared with paint.
They could put them in the skin layer. yes then you could not use skins, but most skins are pretty full body anyway.
Skins who cover little is very nice for hiding vampirism.

This Khajiit is an stage 3 vampire.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I think more playable Khajiit furstocks would be more likely in a single player Elder Scrolls game set in Elsweyr, assuming we ever get one. I doubt ZOS would consider the development effort for ESO to be worth the bang for the buck, though I would be happy to be proven wrong.

KaironBlackbard

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

If the game was newer and coded for actual character customisation like Lost Ark or BDO or a to look at a single player game BG3 subraces or even new races would be a thing but this is an almost 10 year old game so I think that's what will hold it back. If we ever get an ESO 2 or a relaunch on a new engine it will be more likely.

That actually gives me an idea...
They could remake the base code and freshen it up to allow for newer features.
They could reload save data into the new system and if it works, if everything carries over, send it out as a massive update.
Maybe people would be able to spot the differences too. Mostly QoL. But, with the separations of pattern and paint, people would probably get excited.
Also, I'd love it if they also separated paint from being able to be affected by Vampiric Stages. It's paint, not skintone. Paint shouldn't pale from vampirism. Fur can though, as fur matches the skin beneath it, so if the skin pales, so does fur.

Jarl_Ironheart

Khajiits are rhe only race it makes sense for. The others one aren't really subraces but more different cultures. But if I could be a Cathay-Raht and run around as a Nord sized Khajiit warrior I'd be happy. But for now it's Nord for life.

SilverBride

Would all these subraces have their own character creation features? And their own armor styles? And their own racial passives? And their own hairstyles? Etc.

Sounds like a HUGE undertaking.

Orbital78

I hope not.

LunaFlora

SilverBride wrote: »

Would all these subraces have their own character creation features? And their own armor styles? And their own racial passives? And their own hairstyles? Etc.

Sounds like a HUGE undertaking.

if they're actual subraces probably not no.

pahmar khajiit are for example just slightly bigger cathay khajiit (what we play as).
and ohmes khajiit are visually bosmer.

naga argonians just have a different head and that's it.

VisitHammerfell

Will they add them any time soon? No
Could they add them in the next decade if ESO keeps going strong? Possibly
Should they add them? Yes absolutely, I want to be big and strong like Chizbari

tsaescishoeshiner

I don't think they will, but a lot of people would appreciate skins that match nonplayer races. Because people already try to make characters to try and look maormer/ayleid/etc. For example, a skin that makes us look the maormer NPCs. (Not the Maormer skin we have, which is great, but you know doesn't make you pale and stuff).

belial5221_ESO

Unless they use same racial passives for subraces,there will be alot of complaints.Imagine if all had diff passives and things got nerfed,or changed,and gotta contantly change races every patch.Also,as with all other 3d TES games,it's same playable races.So it's unlikely ESO will ever get new playable races.

According to UESP for Arena and possibly Daggerfall:
Orcs are treated as enemies akin to goblins, they are not considered on a par with other races.

The Imperial race was introduced in later games; there is no specific race attached to the Imperial Province in Arena. In the game, the population of the Imperial Province appears as Redguards with low-tier monster names due to developers' oversight.