Should i Refine all my Platinum Dust before Update 40?

ElderSmitter

Trying to figure out if it makes any difference. I have about 30k Platinum dust and wondering if it makes sense to Refine it into Grains prior to the next Update that turns it all into Plating. Or will the same dust Just give me the same amount of Plating post update 40 just no grains. Any Thoughts? Thanks!

rpa

1) If they do not change the amount of temper drops from refining when they get rid of grains and turn them to platings, it does not matter.
If they do, then it does matter:
2) If they give more platings from refining then than grains from refining now then one should not refine now.
3) if they give less platings from refining then than grains from refining now then one should refine now.

For no reason other than pessimism I'd bet 1) and 3) are the most probable cases and its better to refine now. For me, even if wrong, enough grains drop now and in case 2) its easy to farm moar dust to refine unless they adjust number of jewelry nodes/ dust harvested. So it's not a big enough deal to worry about unless really greedy.
And If they do turn the promised improvement to a nerf then *** them.

LunaFlora

should be fine to refine now.
update 40 will turn all current platings into 10 platings and current grains into 1 plating.

Hapexamendios

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

jle30303

You're getting confused between Improvement Materials (Terne, Iridium, Zircon, Chromium) and the actual base jewelry materials (Pewter, Copper, Silver, Electrum, Platinum).

You refine the Jewelry materials "Dust" into "Ounces". This is not going to change. You still actually mine the Dust, and refine it into Ounces.

As a product of the refining process, you get Grains of Improvement Materials, of which it currently takes 10 to make a Plating.

Improvement materials are what is going to change: 1 old Grain = 1 new Plating, and 1 ancient Plating = 10 new Platings.

So, whether you refine before or after the change, isn't going to matter, you're going to get the same amount of Improvement Materials - regardless of whether they're called (old) Grains or (new) Platings.

The other thing that's going to change is the amount of improvement materials needed for upgrading items.

For green items: Currently needs 1 Old Terne Plating (made from 10 Old Terne Grains). Will change to needing 2 new Terne Platings (= 2 old Terne Grains). A cost reduction from 10 to 2.

For blue items: Currently needs 2 Old Iridium Platings (made from 20 Old Iridium Grains). Will change to needing 3 Iridium Platings (= 3 old Iridium Grains). A cost reduction from 20 to 3.

For purple items: Currently needs 3 Old Zircon Platings (made from 30 Old Zircon Grains). Will change to needing 4 Zircon Platings (= 4 old Zircon Grains). A cost reduction from 30 to 4.

For gold items: Currently needs 4 Old Chromium Platings (made from 40 Old Chromium Grains). Will change to needing 8 Chromium Platings (= 8 old Chromium Grains). A cost reduction from 40 to 8.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you refine 10 old Grains of improvement materials to 1 old Plating, before the change, that 1 old Plating will convert to 10 new Platings. If you don't refine them, those 10 old Grains will convert directly to 10 new Platings. So it doesn't matter if you refine or not.

virtus753

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

I’d wait until they fix Plentiful Harvest next patch for surveys. It’s currently giving 10% less than promised at each stage, with Stage 1 being completely nonfunctional.

rpa

virtus753 wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

I’d wait until they fix Plentiful Harvest next patch for surveys. It’s currently giving 10% less than promised at each stage, with Stage 1 being completely nonfunctional.

If they fixed it it would be great. Hoewever I would not hold my breath waiting for it. (Is it actually fixed on PTS?)

lillybit

rpa wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

I’d wait until they fix Plentiful Harvest next patch for surveys. It’s currently giving 10% less than promised at each stage, with Stage 1 being completely nonfunctional.

If they fixed it it would be great. Hoewever I would not hold my breath waiting for it. (Is it actually fixed on PTS?)

It's been tested on PTS had has been fixed - maxed out it will give the correct 50% after the patch. Unless you need the mats now, it's best to save surveys

virtus753

rpa wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

I’d wait until they fix Plentiful Harvest next patch for surveys. It’s currently giving 10% less than promised at each stage, with Stage 1 being completely nonfunctional.

If they fixed it it would be great. Hoewever I would not hold my breath waiting for it. (Is it actually fixed on PTS?)

Tmbrinks tested it. I trust his math.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/643791/pts-plentiful-harvest-testing-at-50#latest

rpa

virtus753 wrote: »

rpa wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Hapexamendios wrote: »

For now, I am refining. I am also doing all my accumulated jewelry surveys.

I’d wait until they fix Plentiful Harvest next patch for surveys. It’s currently giving 10% less than promised at each stage, with Stage 1 being completely nonfunctional.

If they fixed it it would be great. Hoewever I would not hold my breath waiting for it. (Is it actually fixed on PTS?)

Tmbrinks tested it. I trust his math.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/643791/pts-plentiful-harvest-testing-at-50#latest

Great!

BahometZ

jle30303 wrote: »

You're getting confused between Improvement Materials (Terne, Iridium, Zircon, Chromium) and the actual base jewelry materials (Pewter, Copper, Silver, Electrum, Platinum).

You refine the Jewelry materials "Dust" into "Ounces". This is not going to change. You still actually mine the Dust, and refine it into Ounces.

As a product of the refining process, you get Grains of Improvement Materials, of which it currently takes 10 to make a Plating.

Improvement materials are what is going to change: 1 old Grain = 1 new Plating, and 1 ancient Plating = 10 new Platings.

So, whether you refine before or after the change, isn't going to matter, you're going to get the same amount of Improvement Materials - regardless of whether they're called (old) Grains or (new) Platings.

The other thing that's going to change is the amount of improvement materials needed for upgrading items.

For green items: Currently needs 1 Old Terne Plating (made from 10 Old Terne Grains). Will change to needing 2 new Terne Platings (= 2 old Terne Grains). A cost reduction from 10 to 2.

For blue items: Currently needs 2 Old Iridium Platings (made from 20 Old Iridium Grains). Will change to needing 3 Iridium Platings (= 3 old Iridium Grains). A cost reduction from 20 to 3.

For purple items: Currently needs 3 Old Zircon Platings (made from 30 Old Zircon Grains). Will change to needing 4 Zircon Platings (= 4 old Zircon Grains). A cost reduction from 30 to 4.

For gold items: Currently needs 4 Old Chromium Platings (made from 40 Old Chromium Grains). Will change to needing 8 Chromium Platings (= 8 old Chromium Grains). A cost reduction from 40 to 8.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you refine 10 old Grains of improvement materials to 1 old Plating, before the change, that 1 old Plating will convert to 10 new Platings. If you don't refine them, those 10 old Grains will convert directly to 10 new Platings. So it doesn't matter if you refine or not.

Pretty sure OP is referring to refining the raw platinum into grains now so that they get upgraded under the coming system, not whether they should refine their grains into plates.
Sounds like refining all raw grains now is the play. Every grain you make now will be 10 grains. After the change, I doubt you'll get 10x more grains from refining.

TaSheen

Actually, the really interesting thing is that I did all my extant jewelry surveys today - that was several on each account both PC megaservers.

I got a LOT more blue grains than I have in literally YEARS. Each main had over 400 plat dust (because I've just always hoarded jewelry surveys); the least amount of blue grains was from about 420 plat dust - 14 blue grains. The most was from just under 650 plat dust - 28 grains.

I've never seen that many blue grains EVER before.... and I regularly stockpile jewelry surveys so I have between 3 and 5 before I run them.

tmbrinks

BahometZ wrote: »

jle30303 wrote: »

You're getting confused between Improvement Materials (Terne, Iridium, Zircon, Chromium) and the actual base jewelry materials (Pewter, Copper, Silver, Electrum, Platinum).

You refine the Jewelry materials "Dust" into "Ounces". This is not going to change. You still actually mine the Dust, and refine it into Ounces.

As a product of the refining process, you get Grains of Improvement Materials, of which it currently takes 10 to make a Plating.

Improvement materials are what is going to change: 1 old Grain = 1 new Plating, and 1 ancient Plating = 10 new Platings.

So, whether you refine before or after the change, isn't going to matter, you're going to get the same amount of Improvement Materials - regardless of whether they're called (old) Grains or (new) Platings.

The other thing that's going to change is the amount of improvement materials needed for upgrading items.

For green items: Currently needs 1 Old Terne Plating (made from 10 Old Terne Grains). Will change to needing 2 new Terne Platings (= 2 old Terne Grains). A cost reduction from 10 to 2.

For blue items: Currently needs 2 Old Iridium Platings (made from 20 Old Iridium Grains). Will change to needing 3 Iridium Platings (= 3 old Iridium Grains). A cost reduction from 20 to 3.

For purple items: Currently needs 3 Old Zircon Platings (made from 30 Old Zircon Grains). Will change to needing 4 Zircon Platings (= 4 old Zircon Grains). A cost reduction from 30 to 4.

For gold items: Currently needs 4 Old Chromium Platings (made from 40 Old Chromium Grains). Will change to needing 8 Chromium Platings (= 8 old Chromium Grains). A cost reduction from 40 to 8.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you refine 10 old Grains of improvement materials to 1 old Plating, before the change, that 1 old Plating will convert to 10 new Platings. If you don't refine them, those 10 old Grains will convert directly to 10 new Platings. So it doesn't matter if you refine or not.

Pretty sure OP is referring to refining the raw platinum into grains now so that they get upgraded under the coming system, not whether they should refine their grains into plates.
Sounds like refining all raw grains now is the play. Every grain you make now will be 10 grains. After the change, I doubt you'll get 10x more grains from refining.

they'll just drop platings when you refine after U40.

It doesn't matter when you refine... but hold off on surveys until U40.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it deals with crafting.

Thank you for your understanding

Masteroshi430

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

Trying to figure out if it makes any difference. I have about 30k Platinum dust and wondering if it makes sense to Refine it into Grains prior to the next Update that turns it all into Plating. Or will the same dust Just give me the same amount of Plating post update 40 just no grains. Any Thoughts? Thanks!

With U40 it's just Terne grains, Iridium grains, zircon grains and Chromium grains that are removed from being created and will have "Ancient" prepend to their names, the good old platinum dust will still be there.

lillybit

There is no evidence so far that drop rates have changed on PTS so it shouldn't make a difference - grains dropped now will become platings when the update drops and after they'll skip a step and just be platings

Zodiarkslayer

TaSheen wrote: »

Actually, the really interesting thing is that I did all my extant jewelry surveys today - that was several on each account both PC megaservers.

I got a LOT more blue grains than I have in literally YEARS. Each main had over 400 plat dust (because I've just always hoarded jewelry surveys); the least amount of blue grains was from about 420 plat dust - 14 blue grains. The most was from just under 650 plat dust - 28 grains.

I've never seen that many blue grains EVER before.... and I regularly stockpile jewelry surveys so I have between 3 and 5 before I run them.

That is because RnG in ESO isn't random at low draw counts. You have to refine at least 8k in one go to have true randomness, I estimate. Best is 10k, which is the max number you can refine at once, I believe.

tmbrinks

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Actually, the really interesting thing is that I did all my extant jewelry surveys today - that was several on each account both PC megaservers.

I got a LOT more blue grains than I have in literally YEARS. Each main had over 400 plat dust (because I've just always hoarded jewelry surveys); the least amount of blue grains was from about 420 plat dust - 14 blue grains. The most was from just under 650 plat dust - 28 grains.

I've never seen that many blue grains EVER before.... and I regularly stockpile jewelry surveys so I have between 3 and 5 before I run them.

That is because RnG in ESO isn't random at low draw counts. You have to refine at least 8k in one go to have true randomness, I estimate. Best is 10k, which is the max number you can refine at once, I believe.

That's like saying that flipping a coin 3 times and getting 3 heads in a row isn't "random".

Yes, I'm aware that any computer-generated randomness isn't truly random, unless ZoS has somehow tapped the resources of a quantum computer Refining more will get you closer to the "true" drop rates, you know... all that statistics stuff, random normal curves, distributions, law of large numbers, etc... Which is why I'm extremely dubious of small sample sizes, anecdotal "evidence", and so forth.

When I did my test to see if plentiful harvest was fixed on the PTS, it was interesting to see how "statistically significant" my results shifted as I plugged in each successive trial (each survey collected), and how my brain tried to make trends with what was happening. I find myself caught up in the gambler's fallacy of "Oh, the last few surveys I've only had 1 or 2 doubled, I'm sure to have 4 or 5 doubled this time!" even though I know that's complete malarky.

wolfie1.0.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Actually, the really interesting thing is that I did all my extant jewelry surveys today - that was several on each account both PC megaservers.

I got a LOT more blue grains than I have in literally YEARS. Each main had over 400 plat dust (because I've just always hoarded jewelry surveys); the least amount of blue grains was from about 420 plat dust - 14 blue grains. The most was from just under 650 plat dust - 28 grains.

I've never seen that many blue grains EVER before.... and I regularly stockpile jewelry surveys so I have between 3 and 5 before I run them.

That is because RnG in ESO isn't random at low draw counts. You have to refine at least 8k in one go to have true randomness, I estimate. Best is 10k, which is the max number you can refine at once, I believe.

That's like saying that flipping a coin 3 times and getting 3 heads in a row isn't "random".

Yes, I'm aware that any computer-generated randomness isn't truly random, unless ZoS has somehow tapped the resources of a quantum computer Refining more will get you closer to the "true" drop rates, you know... all that statistics stuff, random normal curves, distributions, law of large numbers, etc... Which is why I'm extremely dubious of small sample sizes, anecdotal "evidence", and so forth.

When I did my test to see if plentiful harvest was fixed on the PTS, it was interesting to see how "statistically significant" my results shifted as I plugged in each successive trial (each survey collected), and how my brain tried to make trends with what was happening. I find myself caught up in the gambler's fallacy of "Oh, the last few surveys I've only had 1 or 2 doubled, I'm sure to have 4 or 5 doubled this time!" even though I know that's complete malarky.

Ya, that's how the casinos get you 😀

Edenwolf

jle30303 wrote: »

You're getting confused between Improvement Materials (Terne, Iridium, Zircon, Chromium) and the actual base jewelry materials (Pewter, Copper, Silver, Electrum, Platinum).

You refine the Jewelry materials "Dust" into "Ounces". This is not going to change. You still actually mine the Dust, and refine it into Ounces.

As a product of the refining process, you get Grains of Improvement Materials, of which it currently takes 10 to make a Plating.

Improvement materials are what is going to change: 1 old Grain = 1 new Plating, and 1 ancient Plating = 10 new Platings.

So, whether you refine before or after the change, isn't going to matter, you're going to get the same amount of Improvement Materials - regardless of whether they're called (old) Grains or (new) Platings.

The other thing that's going to change is the amount of improvement materials needed for upgrading items.

For green items: Currently needs 1 Old Terne Plating (made from 10 Old Terne Grains). Will change to needing 2 new Terne Platings (= 2 old Terne Grains). A cost reduction from 10 to 2.

For blue items: Currently needs 2 Old Iridium Platings (made from 20 Old Iridium Grains). Will change to needing 3 Iridium Platings (= 3 old Iridium Grains). A cost reduction from 20 to 3.

For purple items: Currently needs 3 Old Zircon Platings (made from 30 Old Zircon Grains). Will change to needing 4 Zircon Platings (= 4 old Zircon Grains). A cost reduction from 30 to 4.

For gold items: Currently needs 4 Old Chromium Platings (made from 40 Old Chromium Grains). Will change to needing 8 Chromium Platings (= 8 old Chromium Grains). A cost reduction from 40 to 8.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you refine 10 old Grains of improvement materials to 1 old Plating, before the change, that 1 old Plating will convert to 10 new Platings. If you don't refine them, those 10 old Grains will convert directly to 10 new Platings. So it doesn't matter if you refine or not.

It does matter, perhaps not in terms of what the OP is after but the worth of plating. If it becomes more accessable and the amount required to upgrade jewelery is drastically reduced then the value will plummet. This hurts many who farm platinum dust as a form of income.