We need a PvP Target Dummy

lexicondevil99

Just as the title indicates. We have regular dummies, robust dummies, Trial Dummies, whatever those big Dwemer Centurians are for, etc. Either a dummy with battle spirit active on it, or a dummy you can challenge to a "duel" would be very useful and much appreciated.

TechMaybeHic

I agree. Need some crit resist, and higher armor players use. Ideally something with some sliders would be cool.

Amerises

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I agree. Need some crit resist, and higher armor players use. Ideally something with some sliders would be cool.

Sliders would ideal. Strange this isn’t a thing. A ganker, a tank/brawler, and a bomber are all going to pick different targets.

XSTRONG

Good idea

DrNukenstein

They could make so much money triple dipping me for a tank target, marksman target, and brawler target.

They could infinity dip me for infinity money by making targets that not only represent pvp archetypes, but have simple behaviors programmed into them for you to fight against. EG: Ganker target moves in a figure 8 and casts cloak periodically.

SaffronCitrusflower

excellent idea.

Amottica

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

boi_anachronism_

lexicondevil99 wrote: »

Just as the title indicates. We have regular dummies, robust dummies, Trial Dummies, whatever those big Dwemer Centurians are for, etc. Either a dummy with battle spirit active on it, or a dummy you can challenge to a "duel" would be very useful and much appreciated.

The 52m centurions are for raid group parses. You literally get your entire team, supports and all to buff, damage, and then have the tank debuff.

TechMaybeHic

Amottica wrote: »

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

Top players might be doing the math to see what they're raw damage, crit, and penetration do with battle Spirit, armor, crit resistance and active buffs and debuffs do with maybe knowing the order everything is applied. But regular players might have no idea. I imagine, even if you do have an idea; it would be nice to get a solid confirmation without braking out a calculator and spreadsheet.

Sure. Rotation is not something that can happen. But seeing the impact with actual game calculations could help better understand the factors at play tweaks do to your damage.

And of course targets vary. That's why sliders would be nice.

Edit: or maybe a dueling companion we can gear up?

Imagine. Taking features added already to the game and giving them an application to pvp side even if it's minimally useful. The audacity of such a request

Vaqual

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

Top players might be doing the math to see what they're raw damage, crit, and penetration do with battle Spirit, armor, crit resistance and active buffs and debuffs do with maybe knowing the order everything is applied. But regular players might have no idea. I imagine, even if you do have an idea; it would be nice to get a solid confirmation without braking out a calculator and spreadsheet.

Sure. Rotation is not something that can happen. But seeing the impact with actual game calculations could help better understand the factors at play tweaks do to your damage.

And of course targets vary. That's why sliders would be nice.

Edit: or maybe a dueling companion we can gear up?

Imagine. Taking features added already to the game and giving them an application to pvp side even if it's minimally useful. The audacity of such a request

Yes a customizable sparring partner sounds cool, just to see also if your defenses/heals are somewhat where you need them against builds you expect to be weak against for instance.

endgamesmug

So like would it chase after you and spam light attacks, abilities and executes on you?

lexicondevil99

Oops, delete please

SkaraMinoc

The Vamp Dummy is the unofficial PvP dummy.

< 20k dps = stay in pve
20-25k dps = very low
25-30k dps = low
30-35k dps = starting to do damage
35-40k dps = you're finally doing real damage
40-45k dps = high pressure
45-50k dps = you hit like a truck
50k+ dps = players will know your name

The top Dizzy Swing stam sorcs parse between 40k and 50k dps.

As a general rule, take your parse number and divide by 5 and that's what you'll get in PvP.

• Divide by 3 when using corrosive/onslaught
• Divide by 4 for squishy target
• Divide by 5 for average target
• Divide by 6 for tanky target
• Divide by 7 for very tanky targets

karthrag_inak

With khajiit's luck, his PVP dummy would send him nasty whispers and do those strange crouches on this one's head.

TechMaybeHic

karthrag_inak wrote: »

With khajiit's luck, his PVP dummy would send him nasty whispers and do those strange crouches on this one's head.

That should be a feature if you die to the dummy. Preparation is key. Prepare for everything

Amottica

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

And of course targets vary. That's why sliders would be nice.

We never know the stats of an enemy player so we either build with heavy pen or not. So the sliders would be of very little value.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

Top players might be doing the math to see what they're raw damage, crit, and penetration do with battle Spirit, armor, crit resistance and active buffs and debuffs do with maybe knowing the order everything is applied.

The math is fairly straight forward and simplistic.

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I have no problem with Zenimax adding something like this to the crown store. However, I fail to see the point.

For PvE raids, boss fights last a long time. Resistance is standard in most boss fights. Players use DPS dummies to practice rotations for those fights. There is a lot of consistency.

For PvP, everything is situational, Every second, every button press, is situational. On top of that, resistance and crit resistance vary significantly from player to player. It would be a complete waste of money. Something I doubt top PvP players would have much interest in other than trying yours out for free to see what little they are missing.

Imagine. Taking features added already to the game and giving them an application to pvp side even if it's minimally useful. The audacity of such a request

I was not arguing that Zenimax should not do this. In fact, I started off my post with a very clear statement that I have no issue with Zenimax adding this to the game. I just pointed out how little value it would provide to players.

If Zenimax feels they can make bank on such a dps dummy we know they will add it to the crown store. Maybe if this thread shows strong enough interest it will get their attention.

LittlePinkDot

It needs to not be dumb though. It needs AI to act like a human.

mocap

PvP training bots isn't hard to make. It was in Quake 2 and Unreal (1997-1998), don't see any difficulties to make them in 2023. It would be funny to have a whole story dungeon with bots like that.

ZOS, if you do this, be sure to make the bot jump without end. It's more realistic.

Redguards_Revenge

lexicondevil99 wrote: »

Just as the title indicates. We have regular dummies, robust dummies, Trial Dummies, whatever those big Dwemer Centurians are for, etc. Either a dummy with battle spirit active on it, or a dummy you can challenge to a "duel" would be very useful and much appreciated.

Nobody stands there during pvp. It will always be inaccurate and not transferrable to pvp. You may think "oh I want this for my NB, when I gank it's like they are standing there."

Yes, for people who don't have the skill to know when to do during pvp, that may be the case. However, those who have played and learned the game won't be standing there unless they went to go pee. In either case, a parse means nothing.

I could have 50k dps, and it means nothing in pvp.
I could have 9k dps and it means everything in pvp.

Just find someone reliable to duel with and learn from. Tell them up front this is a learning session. I do it all the time. I ask them about the moves I want to try and when they almost kill me but back off. Some times I just run out of deul or let them kill me and switch my gears.

Cheering to a dummy parse just ain't it boss.

Vaqual

endgamesmug wrote: »

So like would it chase after you and spam light attacks, abilities and executes on you?

Yes, but I was more thinking of letting it execute abilities from left to right like companions. So you could set up dots and ult burst, so you have to defend while doing damage. Could be fun I think. And you wouldn't need to ask someone to adjust builds to test different variations. That way you could also get a better feel for "on hit" effects, reflected damage, etc.

But a stationary would be fine, the moving would probably be too much.

This is of course just a toy, nothing urgent or important.

Brakkish

/signed

Rhaegar75

Easy: pick any of the 40+ health wardens you find in BG and spar them: plenty around

Brakkish

Rhaegar75 wrote: »

East: pick any of the 40+ health wardens you find in BG and spar them: plenty around

It happens on my warden all the time; issue for the poor guy testing his dps on me is that eventually the other team shows up and ruins his day. Afterwards it's then a 1v4-6 for me and turns into a boss fight for them. No complaints here as I enjoy a moment when a situation dictates me having to do something else besides hold L2.

For fun and giggles I'll let the pack get me to ~50% to keep their engagment and then hit polar wind, and crush their dreams. Boss fight usually ends as the quick-to-learn just move on to squishies at that point.

For added fun I'll change polymorphs during the round to retain engagement of those who look at outfits and not names. It's just not as much fun when people begin to recognize you and move on....

StaticWave

We need a PvP dummy that procs the Battle Spirit buff so that we can accurately test our builds without needing to duel or go into IC lol.