Please give necro some improvements for pvp - suggestions

Lags

Its no secret that necromancer is the weakest class in pvp, and has really gone to the bottom of the barrel with the change to harmony and nerf to graverobber. I have a lot of time on necro since it came out. On both xbox and PC it is the class i have played 2nd most in pvp, and i believe my highest ranked pvp class since i swapped to PC. Most of my time comes from solo/small scale pvp, not just harmony bombing.

Necro is the classic case of just because something looks good on paper doesnt mean it will play out well in game. Necro has some good things about it, yes. But compared to other classes, and just in general, it falls far behind. Before it felt almost forced into either harmony bombing or bashing, now it feels like it belongs nowhere.

My suggestions are;

tethers breaking on line of sight is a massive issue. I dont mean kiting in a tower, I mean like you walk in front of a pebble and its gone. If the tether/coil stayed this would be a massive improvement to the skills.

The class has sustain problems, but at least if i could reliably keep one of the tether skills active i could have a little more sustain from it. Still i think it could use some more sustain, but that is nothing compared to constantly losing your tether or coil.

Its damage needs help. Blast bones is unreliable. Its nothing compared to, lets say, sub assault on warden. Which cannot be killed, like blast bones, does not glitch out and stand around, like blast bones, and give's both major and minor fracture while still hitting very hard. And the skull isnt much better. If we compare it to something similar, like whip, it just doesnt stack up. The class does have high damage potential, maybe not like a nightblade or dk, but not reliably with class skills.

It needs some more buffs or debuffs, not huge ones really just basic ones. Like mainly a way to get brutality/sorcery. I understand necro has a lot of small unique buffs, like the 3% bonuses on a few skills. It also gets major protection, on a defensive skill not much use to a damage dealer in pvp, not like templar charge for example. But the lack of brutality/sorcery tied into a skill like the ghost or something really causes problems with skill slots or potion use.

And how about major fracture on unnerving boneyard? Thats great, but for the love of god please make it last for a certain amount of time after someone leaves the boneyard. No one just sits in an aoe, especially one that is dealing damage over time, and giving them a debuff. I really dont understand why the skill doesnt work like caltrops, where the fracture debuff lasts for 4 seconds after the enemy leaves the aoe, but it really really would be a lot more viable if it did.

Also it could really use more corpses. Like the crux system is comparable, with buffing or improving a skill, but the difference is that crux wont disappear unless you make them do so. They wont despawn because someone revived, you dont use a skill on your crux and then walk past a tree and have the skill and crux/corpse go away and make it worthless. Plus i feel like so many necro skills depend on corpses to be viable. So maybe give us more corpeses, passively on corpse generating skills, or maybe make certain skills spawn a corpse at their location. Like if you casted tether it would just spawn a corpse to activate.

I could go into some more issues and suggestions but i think those are the biggest issues at the moment. Yes it can be a survivable class if you want to tank but other than that it is very lackluster. When you have classes like dk that can pop corrosive and run wild, becoming very hard to kill while ignoring all someone's resist and hitting like a truck, or nightblade hitting people with an incap bow for their entire 30k health bar, or warden, or arcanist, or sorc, or even plar, everything just feels better than necro. Some more than others, of course, but they all seem to flow better than necro does these days. Necro just feels clunky and weak. Either way, ill keep doing the few things that work on necro, which isnt much, but any of these things would be a massive improvement imo.

CameraBeardThePirate

Tethers, lack of Sorc/Brut/Proph/Savag/offensive stun, and the corpse gameplay/bugginess of abilities are the biggest pain points.

Make the Tethers either ignore LoS or convert them into sticky abilities similar to Arcanist's Fulminating Rune (with a corpse as the initial target, of course).

Give one of their class abilities one of the major buffs they're lacking. Doesn't really matter if it's Sorcery/Brutality or Prophecy/Savagery, as both would be beneficial to the class (albeit Sorcery/Brutality would definitely help more). Consider converting Totem or Grasp to an instant stun.

Extend the duration of corpses. Make their abilities feel good to use. Fix the bugginess of some of their abilities. For example:

Empowering Grasp is a terribly designed ability. Am I supposed to aim for enemies or my pets? Doesn't matter, because the AoEs are so slow that neither target is easy to hit. The buff for pets should just be granted while on bar.

Animate Blastbones has been bugged for 2+ years now, despite numerous reports by myself and others. It is not counting as a Corpse Consumption ability as it should, so it doesn't grant you the ability to see corpses. How are you supposed to target corpses with this ability if you can't see them?

Fear Totem seems to still be bugged. I haven't tested this one myself because the ability is trash, but many players are still saying that it will sometimes miss its first fear tick, meaning it doesn't stun for an entire 4 seconds. What a great ability!

Both Ghost and the Skeletal Archer/Arcanist will frequently stop healing/attacking, despite there being targets nearby. This is unacceptable, especially since they can neither proc sets nor be commanded with the Command Pet keybind as Sorc and Warden pets can, giving them the worst of both worlds and making them easily the worst "pets" in the game.

I'm not expecting any of these changes to happen anytime soon, because they're the same changes that many players have requested time and time and time and time again.

Nihilr

Instead of tether, if we have to target corpses, why not change it to a 0.8 cast-time ability and the effect becomes an AoE on our character only? I'd rather have a cast time than an ability that is useless on LoS.

Necrotech_Master

really i would like to see almost anything be done to necromancer because its barely useable in pve too, for many of the same issues its not as useful in pvp

OtarTheMad

Here’s my ideas:

Damage Tether: Changing this ability completely. So now The Necromancer player would “suck” the energy from the dead corpse like it does now but instead of a tether it throws the energy to the targeted enemy which does lightning damage over time. Keeps unique 3% damage buff

Flame Skull This ability is sped up to better match other spammables.

Skeletal summons- Last longer, up to 35 seconds. Also, while active you can cast the skeletons special ability which will collect energy from a nearby corpse which increases the damage of your necro abilities for 10 seconds. (You can recast this special ability again)

Blastbones- Now a ground AOE ability. Mark where you want BB to summon and it’ll put itself together and explode. Enemies hit take fire damage and also a fire damage over time.

Healing Tether Again, you suck the energy from a corpse and slam you staff to the ground which sends energy to up to 6 players one morph adds a heal over time to yourself as well, another increases magicka and stamina recovery. Keeps unique 3% heal buff

Summoners Armor instead of reducing cost of summons- While active, your Necromancer abilities cost less.

Fear totem this ability is fixed

Empowering Grasp No longer buffs pets but instead the additional effect is that it leaves behind corrupted ground which does magic damage over time. This ability is also sped up.

Hungry Scythe Adds the Healing Absorption debuff to the ability as well.

Animate Blastbones changed to Necrotic Rune. Rez 3 allies. Enemies in area take damage over time.

Alaztor91

Idk how U39 which was focused on bug-fixing and polishing didn't even attempt to fix some of the Necromancer skill bugs that have been around for pretty much 4+ years.

I have seen Blastbones get killed, stunned, knocked down, pushed away. I have also seen it just stand there and time out because the AI for it just sucks and any target that moves fast enough/teleports/etc will cause it to bug out and do nothing(and as a bonus disable the ability for up to 8 seconds)(2nd bonus it can't proc sets: Pale Order for example)

I have seen both Tethers break on LoS, I have also seen them do their respective cast animation and sound but without the skill actually activating.

I have seen Skeletal Mage/Spirit Mender stop attacking/healing when there is a valid target for attacking/healing.(as a bonus they also can't proc sets)

There are other skills that suffer from bugs but the ones I mentioned are skills that I use all the time, so I'm reminded very often how unreliable they are. I even decided to stop playing my Arcanist because it's gameplay feels so smooth that it makes me think why even bother playing a clunky and buggy class like Necromancer.

If you are unable/unwilling to fix such core class skills at least rework them.

Lags

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Tethers, lack of Sorc/Brut/Proph/Savag/offensive stun, and the corpse gameplay/bugginess of abilities are the biggest pain points.

Make the Tethers either ignore LoS or convert them into sticky abilities similar to Arcanist's Fulminating Rune (with a corpse as the initial target, of course).

Give one of their class abilities one of the major buffs they're lacking. Doesn't really matter if it's Sorcery/Brutality or Prophecy/Savagery, as both would be beneficial to the class (albeit Sorcery/Brutality would definitely help more). Consider converting Totem or Grasp to an instant stun.

Extend the duration of corpses. Make their abilities feel good to use. Fix the bugginess of some of their abilities. For example:

Empowering Grasp is a terribly designed ability. Am I supposed to aim for enemies or my pets? Doesn't matter, because the AoEs are so slow that neither target is easy to hit. The buff for pets should just be granted while on bar.

Animate Blastbones has been bugged for 2+ years now, despite numerous reports by myself and others. It is not counting as a Corpse Consumption ability as it should, so it doesn't grant you the ability to see corpses. How are you supposed to target corpses with this ability if you can't see them?

Fear Totem seems to still be bugged. I haven't tested this one myself because the ability is trash, but many players are still saying that it will sometimes miss its first fear tick, meaning it doesn't stun for an entire 4 seconds. What a great ability!

Both Ghost and the Skeletal Archer/Arcanist will frequently stop healing/attacking, despite there being targets nearby. This is unacceptable, especially since they can neither proc sets nor be commanded with the Command Pet keybind as Sorc and Warden pets can, giving them the worst of both worlds and making them easily the worst "pets" in the game.

I'm not expecting any of these changes to happen anytime soon, because they're the same changes that many players have requested time and time and time and time again.

These are some good ideas too. Actually there are many good ideas in this thread, but sadly yes i doubt anything happens anytime soon. It really sucks because this class has been left in the dust for so long now, and then they decided to gut the only real playstyle it had with the harmony/graverobber nerf. Which honestly didnt even make sense.

First of all, grave robber didnt need a nerf after they destroyed harmony. And second, it wasnt even that broken. Like you can bomb on a nightblade more effectively, you can bomb on a dk just as effectively as you could on necro. Maybe the harmony nerf was more focused towards ball groups nova bombing people, i dont know. But when you have a class so far behind you should probably tend to it a bit before removing its main play style.

But personally i think the most simple changes they could make, that would have the biggest impact, would be simply adding brutality or something to the ghost, or another viable skill. Then making it so tether doesnt break on LOS. Giving boneyard fracture the caltrops treatment so it lasts after people leave. And buffing the amount of corpses that you passively gain.

There is much more that should be done, and many good ideas in this thread, but i think those ones would be very simple and have an extremely low risk of becoming over powered.

Lags

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Idk how U39 which was focused on bug-fixing and polishing didn't even attempt to fix some of the Necromancer skill bugs that have been around for pretty much 4+ years.

I have seen Blastbones get killed, stunned, knocked down, pushed away. I have also seen it just stand there and time out because the AI for it just sucks and any target that moves fast enough/teleports/etc will cause it to bug out and do nothing(and as a bonus disable the ability for up to 8 seconds)(2nd bonus it can't proc sets: Pale Order for example)

I have seen both Tethers break on LoS, I have also seen them do their respective cast animation and sound but without the skill actually activating.

I have seen Skeletal Mage/Spirit Mender stop attacking/healing when there is a valid target for attacking/healing.(as a bonus they also can't proc sets)

There are other skills that suffer from bugs but the ones I mentioned are skills that I use all the time, so I'm reminded very often how unreliable they are. I even decided to stop playing my Arcanist because it's gameplay feels so smooth that it makes me think why even bother playing a clunky and buggy class like Necromancer.

If you are unable/unwilling to fix such core class skills at least rework them.

ya it sucks that update 39 didnt really feel like it did much. Especially to important issues. Zos has really missed the mark lately. From update 35, to declaring victory on performance in that pinned thread about multithreading, to the bug fixes in u39, to the crown store mess. Its just been one thing after another. But necro, like other things, has needed attention for so long. And has not gotten it.

And still i hold out hope for the future after playing for going on 8 years. I think they have a word for that, Stockholm syndrome? No, i dont think thats right. Its called something though.

Lags

Hopefully the patch notes have some of these improvements for the class today. And hopefully they buff the necro class set, because it doesnt look very good. The buffs are pretty common, and it doesnt look very good compared to the DK set. Although the corpse part is pretty good, but they should just buff the amount of corpses we get in general.

CameraBeardThePirate

Lags wrote: »

Hopefully the patch notes have some of these improvements for the class today. And hopefully they buff the necro class set, because it doesnt look very good. The buffs are pretty common, and it doesnt look very good compared to the DK set. Although the corpse part is pretty good, but they should just buff the amount of corpses we get in general.

Lol.

ecru

Necro is too predictable. Everyone knows that Blastbones is coming in two or three gcds. When the only useful class ability you have rises up out of the ground and says, "hey, here i am. i'm going to try to kill you in two seconds. please don't do anything to try to stop me.", all you can do is laugh.

I don't always know what most other classes are going to do. Sure, subterranean assault is predictable, but you have a lot more control over where it goes, which allows you to utilize it in ways than you could ever use Blastbones. I'd like to see necro reworked to be given the ability to apply more pressure general pressure, to single targets and groups.

This is way too creative for ESO, but a delayed debuff/proc from blastbones that you could place on one person, and spread to another person with a separate ability (venom skull etc), would be great. The ability would detonate in an aoe after a set amount of time, and the damage from the detonation could detonate the proc on other people, creating a kind of chain reaction where they all damage each other if they're too grouped up and have the debuff. This would give necro the unique ability to apply pressure on smaller groups, which could be combined well with blastbones.

OtarTheMad

ecru wrote: »

Necro is too predictable. Everyone knows that Blastbones is coming in two or three gcds. When the only useful class ability you have rises up out of the ground and says, "hey, here i am. i'm going to try to kill you in two seconds. please don't do anything to try to stop me.", all you can do is laugh.

I don't always know what most other classes are going to do. Sure, subterranean assault is predictable, but you have a lot more control over where it goes, which allows you to utilize it in ways than you could ever use Blastbones. I'd like to see necro reworked to be given the ability to apply more pressure general pressure, to single targets and groups.

This is way too creative for ESO, but a delayed debuff/proc from blastbones that you could place on one person, and spread to another person with a separate ability (venom skull etc), would be great. The ability would detonate in an aoe after a set amount of time, and the damage from the detonation could detonate the proc on other people, creating a kind of chain reaction where they all damage each other if they're too grouped up and have the debuff. This would give necro the unique ability to apply pressure on smaller groups, which could be combined well with blastbones.

Definitely. Necro should be a dot and debuff class.

CameraBeardThePirate

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Necro is too predictable. Everyone knows that Blastbones is coming in two or three gcds. When the only useful class ability you have rises up out of the ground and says, "hey, here i am. i'm going to try to kill you in two seconds. please don't do anything to try to stop me.", all you can do is laugh.

I don't always know what most other classes are going to do. Sure, subterranean assault is predictable, but you have a lot more control over where it goes, which allows you to utilize it in ways than you could ever use Blastbones. I'd like to see necro reworked to be given the ability to apply more pressure general pressure, to single targets and groups.

This is way too creative for ESO, but a delayed debuff/proc from blastbones that you could place on one person, and spread to another person with a separate ability (venom skull etc), would be great. The ability would detonate in an aoe after a set amount of time, and the damage from the detonation could detonate the proc on other people, creating a kind of chain reaction where they all damage each other if they're too grouped up and have the debuff. This would give necro the unique ability to apply pressure on smaller groups, which could be combined well with blastbones.

Definitely. Necro should be a dot and debuff class.

Hard disagree. Necro functioned perfectly fine as an AOE burst class.

Harmony was an issue across the roster - when it was nerfed there was no reason to ALSO nerf Graverobber. If Graverobber still functioned as well as it should, Necro wouldn't need nearly as much help as it does because it would still have a functioning kill combo.

OtarTheMad

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Necro is too predictable. Everyone knows that Blastbones is coming in two or three gcds. When the only useful class ability you have rises up out of the ground and says, "hey, here i am. i'm going to try to kill you in two seconds. please don't do anything to try to stop me.", all you can do is laugh.

I don't always know what most other classes are going to do. Sure, subterranean assault is predictable, but you have a lot more control over where it goes, which allows you to utilize it in ways than you could ever use Blastbones. I'd like to see necro reworked to be given the ability to apply more pressure general pressure, to single targets and groups.

This is way too creative for ESO, but a delayed debuff/proc from blastbones that you could place on one person, and spread to another person with a separate ability (venom skull etc), would be great. The ability would detonate in an aoe after a set amount of time, and the damage from the detonation could detonate the proc on other people, creating a kind of chain reaction where they all damage each other if they're too grouped up and have the debuff. This would give necro the unique ability to apply pressure on smaller groups, which could be combined well with blastbones.

Definitely. Necro should be a dot and debuff class.

Hard disagree. Necro functioned perfectly fine as an AOE burst class.

Harmony was an issue across the roster - when it was nerfed there was no reason to ALSO nerf Graverobber. If Graverobber still functioned as well as it should, Necro wouldn't need nearly as much help as it does because it would still have a functioning kill combo.

That is just one ability and playstyle. I’ve said in other posts that Graverobber should be buffed, heck it’s what I used as burst since BB sucked and still sucks. Even back then though the other abilities needed adjusting which is why Necro fell apart when Graverobber was nerfed, it was all it had.

They can buff Graverobber to be AOE burst but also fix some other abilities to enhance Necro’s status as a DoT and debuff class. Let’s not forget that Necro’s have a DoT passive.

Lags

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Necro is too predictable. Everyone knows that Blastbones is coming in two or three gcds. When the only useful class ability you have rises up out of the ground and says, "hey, here i am. i'm going to try to kill you in two seconds. please don't do anything to try to stop me.", all you can do is laugh.

I don't always know what most other classes are going to do. Sure, subterranean assault is predictable, but you have a lot more control over where it goes, which allows you to utilize it in ways than you could ever use Blastbones. I'd like to see necro reworked to be given the ability to apply more pressure general pressure, to single targets and groups.

This is way too creative for ESO, but a delayed debuff/proc from blastbones that you could place on one person, and spread to another person with a separate ability (venom skull etc), would be great. The ability would detonate in an aoe after a set amount of time, and the damage from the detonation could detonate the proc on other people, creating a kind of chain reaction where they all damage each other if they're too grouped up and have the debuff. This would give necro the unique ability to apply pressure on smaller groups, which could be combined well with blastbones.

Definitely. Necro should be a dot and debuff class.

Hard disagree. Necro functioned perfectly fine as an AOE burst class.

Harmony was an issue across the roster - when it was nerfed there was no reason to ALSO nerf Graverobber. If Graverobber still functioned as well as it should, Necro wouldn't need nearly as much help as it does because it would still have a functioning kill combo.

graverobber nerf was dumb but necro has had plenty of issues even before that. Basically all it was good for was graverobber. Ive played necro since it came out and for a while now ive felt like every build ive played on it would have been faaar stronger on almost any other class. Ive listed the issues many times, as have many others, zos just needs to listen to the community. At least a little bit.