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What do you want to see next for Breton's Lore?

Aliyavana
Aliyavana
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A year after Legacy of the Bretons, I have had enough time to digest it.

Overall, I think that Legacy of the Bretons added valuable historical information. We finally got information about the Druids of Galen, and their interactions with the Aldmer of High Rock, finally expanding upon Breton's origin story mentioned back in High Rock. "Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen, quick witted and strong in the mystical arts."

My problem with the lore this year is that druids are still ultimately in their current form a subculture to modern bretons, even if they are historically of relevance to Bretons via their origins. ESO dances around the idea if druids will return to the mainland, but without them emerging and going back and integrating them into mainstream Breton culture, Bretons lack that extra oomph factor to their magic and the content feels a bit wasted until then. Druids feel like another flavor to the Wyrd for the untrained eye. As it is, Bretons feel like that standard fare run of the mill mages with no extra kick to them.

What I would like to see next is the exploration of the Elven ancestry of the Bretons, and the exploration of the magical elite situated below the ruling families mentioned in the first Pocket guide. The Direnni were pushed out of much of High Rock in the base game, and in its place Ayleid Ruins dot the province, when Ayleids already have a huge presence in the other provinces. How do Mer-loving Bretons celebrate their Aldmeri heritage? Do they keep elven materials on them for their elvish pride like the Nibenese who keep Akaviri heritiage items on them? Is adamantium a material they carry around, as the Direnni do dwell in a tower made out of it. Also MORE important Breton mages, as the race is known for their magical talent. We learned about Kasorayn, but what about Gyron Vardengroet? The loremaster confirmed he is around during ESO's time. Will we even see him demonstrate his power?

Also what fantasy niche can Bretons be added for political intrigue? Other races have politics with their own spin on it. For example, the Dunmer have the unique Morag Tong to handle matters that could potentially boil over.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    There's also the problem of distinguishing the identity of druids from Bosmeri Spinners and Greenspeakers. Its a common complaint from Bosmer-oriented players that Bretons are treading on the territory of the Bosmer, and that Druids get powers that Bosmer cant use or have to sacrifice to get (like shapeshifting). It doesnt help that druids call their god Y'ffre and not Jephre like the Wyrd do, with no in-game explanation as to why they shifted to that name.

    The trade off is that Bosmer have a power that can innately turn them to eldritch creatures of the wild hunt that can devour things in moments, to which MK hinted could turn an entirety of Valenwood to a dead province.

    “During the Oblivion Crisis, the Bosmer were going to call a Wild Hunt to end all Wild Hunts, with every single mer in Valenwood going full monster. Afterwards, it would've become a haunted forest nation, closed off by both the Dominion and the Empire. I forget the exact name, but it was something like Ada-mor, the "spirit forest".”

    Or what's described in Dance in Fire:

    "It was as if a crack in reality had opened wide. A flood of horrific beasts, tentacled toads, insects of armor and spine, gelatinous serpents, vaporous beings with the face of gods, all poured forth from the great hollow tree, blind with fury. They tore the Khajiiti in front of the temple to pieces. All the other cats fled for the jungle, but as they did so, they began pulling on the ropes they carried. In a few seconds time, the entire village of Vindisi was boiling with the lunatic apparitions of the Wild Hunt.

    Over the babbling, barking, howling horde, Scotti heard the Cyrodiils in hiding cry out as they were devoured. The Nord too was found and eaten, and both Bretons. The wizard had turned himself invisible, but the swarm did not rely on their sight. The tree the Cathay-Raht was in began to sway and rock from the impossible violence beneath it. Scotti looked at the Khajiiti's fear-struck eyes, and held out one of the cords of moss.

    The cat's face showed its pitiful gratitude as it leapt for the vine. It didn't have time to entirely replace that expression when Scotti pulled back the cord, and watched it fall. The Hunt consumed it to the bone before it struck the ground."

    Druid shapeshifting is nothing at the scale of that destruction, a druid bear form isnt going to so much. The only thing capable really of doing that is the Druid King with the Green Scourge with nature turning against us, and while you might think the similarity is Wild Hunt and Green Scourge in destruction is generic, Bretons have barely any significant mages… Bosmer have an entire triad of power houses like the Green Lady, the Silvinar, and the Wilderking that together dwarf the Druid King who isnt even alive anymore.

    Additionally, druids tap into the power of the Earthbones via bonelines like how someone might tap into power lines for electricity, vs Bosmer who arguebly have a more personal and primal connection to Y’ffre. Outsiders in High Isle can be taught druidic magic as it isnt exclusive to them, its just a well guarded secret. An Imperial cannot become a creature of the wild hunt (I wouldnt really consider the crown crate transformation seriously)

    Thats it for my rant on distinguishing druids and Bosmer.
    Edited by Aliyavana on September 8, 2023 6:37PM
  • WildRaptorX
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    Snow Bretons from Jehana!
  • YstradClud
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    My main on PC is Breton so I really enjoyed the High Isle chapter overall, but I also play console and my main there is Bosmer. I like both of their lore.
    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Its a common complaint from Bosmer-oriented players that Bretons are treading on the territory of the Bosmer.

    In my opinion the distinctions between the two need to be fleshed out in game. That's part of the reason I was hoping the Bosmer got their own chapter as well.
  • Supreme_Atromancer
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Also what fantasy niche can Bretons be added for political intrigue?

    When former Loremaster Tuttle described the Bretons as "Thronesian", it evokes this idea of stunning power gambits, shocking betrayals, turns of political fortunes, backstabbing and conniving, all in a rather straightforward, grim medieval European milieu. That is their niche. You only need to look at all the conniving royal factions in TES2: Daggerfall to see that this is what was always intended. High Isle had one or two moments that approached the idea, but not enough space to really deliver it in any convincing fashion, and its something I would LOVE to see them capitalise on in the future.
    What do you want to see next for Breton's Lore?

    In the earlier games, Bretons had a signature racial bonus to conjuration. I want to see what story and lore this mechanic reflects. Altmer are the undisputed masters of controlling the typical high fantasy-esque, destructive magical elements; a magical inclination towards conjuration is an opportunity to do something different with Bretons. In TES, conjuration has a lot to do with manipulating the forces and entities of Oblivion, which is very morally grey. It evokes, for me, the idea of more gritty fantasy ideas like medieval ceremonial magicians in secluded towers binding spirits to do their bidding, bargaining with powerful demonic entities for secrets, power and knowledge, all with the risk to soul that it would entail.

    I want to see more about the Direnni heritage. I'd love a retcon that changed many base-game "Aylied" ruins in High Rock to Direnni ruins, but I accept that's copium. The Keywright's Gallery introduced the concept of the Sinderill, which gives a fascinating taste of the idea that the Direnni still have some vitality, and it would be interesting to explore that.
    Snow Bretons from Jehana!

    Probably amongst my biggest wishes. Beyond the obviously beautiful and appealing aesthetic of a snowy Breton city, I just think that it would be a great opportunity to give some much-needed factions and diversity to the Bretons. The lore describes them as particularly fractuous, yet right now, all we have is pretty much the Iliac Bay, which is pretty much united in environment, culture, and political allegiance. There's more to High Rock than just the Iliac Bay.
  • TheImperfect
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    Personally I'd like to see a real deep dive on your average Breton's history and culture offering more insights and some drama and intrigue, maybe even related to exisitng characters but fully within existing lore (or added lore which does not invalidate the current).
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    Personally I'd like to see a real deep dive on your average Breton's history and culture offering more insights and some drama and intrigue, maybe even related to exisitng characters but fully within existing lore (or added lore which does not invalidate the current).

    when you say added lore that does not invalidate the current, do you have any added examples of that happening in the context of bretons?
  • psychotrip
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    A year after Legacy of the Bretons, I have had enough time to digest it.

    Overall, I think that Legacy of the Bretons added valuable historical information. We finally got information about the Druids of Galen, and their interactions with the Aldmer of High Rock, finally expanding upon Breton's origin story mentioned back in High Rock. "Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen, quick witted and strong in the mystical arts."

    My problem with the lore this year is that druids are still ultimately in their current form a subculture to modern bretons, even if they are historically of relevance to Bretons via their origins. ESO dances around the idea if druids will return to the mainland, but without them emerging and going back and integrating them into mainstream Breton culture, Bretons lack that extra oomph factor to their magic and the content feels a bit wasted until then. Druids feel like another flavor to the Wyrd for the untrained eye. As it is, Bretons feel like that standard fare run of the mill mages with no extra kick to them.

    What I would like to see next is the exploration of the Elven ancestry of the Bretons, and the exploration of the magical elite situated below the ruling families mentioned in the first Pocket guide. The Direnni were pushed out of much of High Rock in the base game, and in its place Ayleid Ruins dot the province, when Ayleids already have a huge presence in the other provinces. How do Mer-loving Bretons celebrate their Aldmeri heritage? Do they keep elven materials on them for their elvish pride like the Nibenese who keep Akaviri heritiage items on them? Is adamantium a material they carry around, as the Direnni do dwell in a tower made out of it. Also MORE important Breton mages, as the race is known for their magical talent. We learned about Kasorayn, but what about Gyron Vardengroet? The loremaster confirmed he is around during ESO's time. Will we even see him demonstrate his power?

    Also what fantasy niche can Bretons be added for political intrigue? Other races have politics with their own spin on it. For example, the Dunmer have the unique Morag Tong to handle matters that could potentially boil over.

    I got mad respect for your threads on the bretons. You seem to love them as much as I used to love the Altmer.

    Fight the good fight! Bretons deserve to be interesting! <3

    "What I would like to see next is the exploration of the Elven ancestry of the Bretons, and the exploration of the magical elite situated below the ruling families mentioned in the first Pocket guide."

    I will note that the first pocket guide has been (more or less) entirely retconned at this point. To use Zenimax's own words, it's all just one big "transcription error"

    Either that or the whole thing was written by a blind imperial whos never seen his homeland before and made it all up as he went along, using obviously false sources written by madmen, and yet somehow Tiber Septim had this obviously false information distributed across the empire?

    Yeah, no. Occam's Razor. Its retconned. Just ignore it unless corresponds with later lore. XD
    Edited by psychotrip on September 14, 2023 5:55PM
    No one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".

    We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.
  • TheImperfect
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    Personally I'd like to see a real deep dive on your average Breton's history and culture offering more insights and some drama and intrigue, maybe even related to exisitng characters but fully within existing lore (or added lore which does not invalidate the current).

    when you say added lore that does not invalidate the current, do you have any added examples of that happening in the context of bretons?

    No I did not mean that it has already happened I just want any additional new future lore not to contradict existing lore.
  • Aliyavana
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    psychotrip wrote: »
    Aliyavana wrote: »
    A year after Legacy of the Bretons, I have had enough time to digest it.

    Overall, I think that Legacy of the Bretons added valuable historical information. We finally got information about the Druids of Galen, and their interactions with the Aldmer of High Rock, finally expanding upon Breton's origin story mentioned back in High Rock. "Thy race is descended from the ancient Druids of Galen, quick witted and strong in the mystical arts."

    My problem with the lore this year is that druids are still ultimately in their current form a subculture to modern bretons, even if they are historically of relevance to Bretons via their origins. ESO dances around the idea if druids will return to the mainland, but without them emerging and going back and integrating them into mainstream Breton culture, Bretons lack that extra oomph factor to their magic and the content feels a bit wasted until then. Druids feel like another flavor to the Wyrd for the untrained eye. As it is, Bretons feel like that standard fare run of the mill mages with no extra kick to them.

    What I would like to see next is the exploration of the Elven ancestry of the Bretons, and the exploration of the magical elite situated below the ruling families mentioned in the first Pocket guide. The Direnni were pushed out of much of High Rock in the base game, and in its place Ayleid Ruins dot the province, when Ayleids already have a huge presence in the other provinces. How do Mer-loving Bretons celebrate their Aldmeri heritage? Do they keep elven materials on them for their elvish pride like the Nibenese who keep Akaviri heritiage items on them? Is adamantium a material they carry around, as the Direnni do dwell in a tower made out of it. Also MORE important Breton mages, as the race is known for their magical talent. We learned about Kasorayn, but what about Gyron Vardengroet? The loremaster confirmed he is around during ESO's time. Will we even see him demonstrate his power?

    Also what fantasy niche can Bretons be added for political intrigue? Other races have politics with their own spin on it. For example, the Dunmer have the unique Morag Tong to handle matters that could potentially boil over.

    I got mad respect for your threads on the bretons. You seem to love them as much as I used to love the Altmer.

    Fight the good fight! Bretons deserve to be interesting! <3

    "What I would like to see next is the exploration of the Elven ancestry of the Bretons, and the exploration of the magical elite situated below the ruling families mentioned in the first Pocket guide."

    I will note that the first pocket guide has been (more or less) entirely retconned at this point. To use Zenimax's own words, it's all just one big "transcription error"

    Either that or the whole thing was written by a blind imperial whos never seen his homeland before and made it all up as he went along, using obviously false sources written by madmen, and yet somehow Tiber Septim had this obviously false information distributed across the empire?

    Yeah, no. Occam's Razor. Its retconned. Just ignore it unless corresponds with later lore. XD

    I just think that Bretons have immense potential, but the other fictional races tread on Breton's territory (primarily Imperial) and do it so much better.

    I didn't mention this before, but I also feel like Bretons could use a few magical institutions. A lot of inventors or magical institutions are imperial/cyrodiilic based which is a bit sad. High Rock could use a few.
    Edited by Aliyavana on September 15, 2023 12:49AM
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