Cryptcanon Vestaments Needs Adjusting!

Alienoutlaw

whilst i appreciate this is a mythic and used within a group setting functions well....................there needs to be an Adjustment either

1. Cool down (currently 5s)
2. The cast cost (currently 1)
3. The amount of Ulti shared

my personal fixes would be as follows

1. Increase cooldown to the current "global" i think its 20s
2. Increase cast cost to either scale with the number of group members (less players = more cost) or a flat 30% of Ulti gained
3. As cast cost, either a flat percentage based on group size to a max of 6 players ie: 2 players = 20% upto 60% for the maximum

fizl101

Adjusted by battle spirit - there is no need for this in pve

JerBearESO

fizl101 wrote: »

Adjusted by battle spirit - there is no need for this in pve

Yeah idk if this is needed. It's being abused in PvP alone but the real abuser is the fact that one can gain ult while in the corrosive ult. Just fix that. Also it may be needs to give the ult after a delay or over time to prevent back to back leaps or something if that nature

Major_Toughness

What is wrong with it currently?

Alienoutlaw

Major_Toughness wrote: »

What is wrong with it currently?

the fact some Ulti's can be used in tandem. the major culprit is corrosive + leap in PVP

fizl101 wrote: »

Adjusted by battle spirit - there is no need for this in pve

true i should have specified that

Major_Toughness

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Major_Toughness wrote: »

What is wrong with it currently?

the fact some Ulti's can be used in tandem. the major culprit is corrosive + leap in PVP

fizl101 wrote: »

Adjusted by battle spirit - there is no need for this in pve

true i should have specified that

Corrosive is the only issue, and thats an issue without Cryptcannon too. This is not specifically a Cryptcannon issue, and it shouldn't be adjusted because of it.

OBJnoob

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

IncultaWolf

No, the issue is corrosive armor, not this mythic

SkaraMinoc

I actually like this duo mechanic even though I've been 1shotted by it. I think we need more interactions like this in ESO.

boi_anachronism_

Its corrosive. Its always been corrosive. Its way over powered.

JerBearESO

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

Group of 5, 4 of them leap, then other 1 uses full crypt, then the 4 leap again

FoJul

JerBearESO wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Adjusted by battle spirit - there is no need for this in pve

Yeah idk if this is needed. It's being abused in PvP alone but the real abuser is the fact that one can gain ult while in the corrosive ult. Just fix that. Also it may be needs to give the ult after a delay or over time to prevent back to back leaps or something if that nature

It's almost like very patch or Expansion, comes with DK's exploiting sets with Corrosive. Same ole same ole...just a different patch.

NordSwordnBoard

Consider a duo can time 2 ultimates on you at the same time. Or they can use cryptcannon and go one after another. Which is worse? Two at the same time, or one after another?
Is the problem 2 ultimates, or is it corrosive?

OBJnoob

JerBearESO wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

Group of 5, 4 of them leap, then other 1 uses full crypt, then the 4 leap again

You know what? I thought it only gave ulti to one person. The scenario you just described does sound broken.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Consider a duo can time 2 ultimates on you at the same time. Or they can use cryptcannon and go one after another. Which is worse? Two at the same time, or one after another?
Is the problem 2 ultimates, or is it corrosive?

That's what I said. But I think my mind has changed now.

Necrotech_Master

OBJnoob wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

Group of 5, 4 of them leap, then other 1 uses full crypt, then the 4 leap again

You know what? I thought it only gave ulti to one person. The scenario you just described does sound broken.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Consider a duo can time 2 ultimates on you at the same time. Or they can use cryptcannon and go one after another. Which is worse? Two at the same time, or one after another?
Is the problem 2 ultimates, or is it corrosive?

That's what I said. But I think my mind has changed now.

the way the mythic works is it gives ulti divided across all group members

using mythic at 500 ult (im not entirely sure if it always rounds down):

-in 12 person group gives 11 other players in group (since it excludes you), approx 45.45 ultimate
-in 4 person group gives 3 other players approx 166.666 ultimate

since dragon leap is a relatively cheap ultimate, you could probably still have a group of 5 and give 4 other people enough ult to cast it

-in 5 person group, gives 4 other players 125 ultimate

take flight has a base cost of 110 ultimate, the base cost of dragon leap or the other morph cost 125 ultimate

NordSwordnBoard

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

Group of 5, 4 of them leap, then other 1 uses full crypt, then the 4 leap again

You know what? I thought it only gave ulti to one person. The scenario you just described does sound broken.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Consider a duo can time 2 ultimates on you at the same time. Or they can use cryptcannon and go one after another. Which is worse? Two at the same time, or one after another?
Is the problem 2 ultimates, or is it corrosive?

That's what I said. But I think my mind has changed now.

the way the mythic works is it gives ulti divided across all group members

using mythic at 500 ult (im not entirely sure if it always rounds down):

-in 12 person group gives 11 other players in group (since it excludes you), approx 45.45 ultimate
-in 4 person group gives 3 other players approx 166.666 ultimate

since dragon leap is a relatively cheap ultimate, you could probably still have a group of 5 and give 4 other people enough ult to cast it

-in 5 person group, gives 4 other players 125 ultimate

take flight has a base cost of 110 ultimate, the base cost of dragon leap or the other morph cost 125 ultimate

While true, it will be a bit of time before the cryptcannon reloads up to 500. Of course bloodspawn or Arkasis help, but it's not as bad as the 1st 500 distribution, when everyone is full 500 and goes again right after. If one person at 500 fails to fire ulti, and gets a cryptcannon distribution, it goes to waste.

This mythic is helping kill stuff in a tank meta. I'd hate to see it nerfed just to protect corrosive. Corrosive is both a culprit and counter to tank meta. Again what's the difference if 4 people leap you twice consecutively each, vs 8 people leap you all at once?

Necrotech_Master

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I agree it's not an issue and Corrosive continues to be the real culprit.

You can get hit by two ultimates from two people or you can get hit by two ultimates from one person. At least with two ultimates from one person they won't land in the same GCD.

There may be another example or two of it being abusive but nothing comes immediately to mind.

Group of 5, 4 of them leap, then other 1 uses full crypt, then the 4 leap again

You know what? I thought it only gave ulti to one person. The scenario you just described does sound broken.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Consider a duo can time 2 ultimates on you at the same time. Or they can use cryptcannon and go one after another. Which is worse? Two at the same time, or one after another?
Is the problem 2 ultimates, or is it corrosive?

That's what I said. But I think my mind has changed now.

the way the mythic works is it gives ulti divided across all group members

using mythic at 500 ult (im not entirely sure if it always rounds down):

-in 12 person group gives 11 other players in group (since it excludes you), approx 45.45 ultimate
-in 4 person group gives 3 other players approx 166.666 ultimate

since dragon leap is a relatively cheap ultimate, you could probably still have a group of 5 and give 4 other people enough ult to cast it

-in 5 person group, gives 4 other players 125 ultimate

take flight has a base cost of 110 ultimate, the base cost of dragon leap or the other morph cost 125 ultimate

While true, it will be a bit of time before the cryptcannon reloads up to 500. Of course bloodspawn or Arkasis help, but it's not as bad as the 1st 500 distribution, when everyone is full 500 and goes again right after. If one person at 500 fails to fire ulti, and gets a cryptcannon distribution, it goes to waste.

This mythic is helping kill stuff in a tank meta. I'd hate to see it nerfed just to protect corrosive. Corrosive is both a culprit and counter to tank meta. Again what's the difference if 4 people leap you twice consecutively each, vs 8 people leap you all at once?

yeah im not saying it should be nerfed, and there are plenty of ways to make yourself an ult battery

the mythic passively gives you minor heroism for one as well, if your a NB using a pot is +20 ult (no cooldown except the pot cooldown), arkassis as noted is additional ult on a pot (has its own cooldown in addition to the pot cooldown), probably other non-mythic ways of generating ult too such as the vampire drain if the person being the battery can afford to cast that

DrNukenstein

I have no intention of digging up this one, but does anyone know if you can benefit from Balorgh while using Cryptcanon?

Necrotech_Master

DrNukenstein wrote: »

I have no intention of digging up this one, but does anyone know if you can benefit from Balorgh while using Cryptcanon?

procs that require an ultimate to fire do not trigger if cryptcannon is used, because your actual ulti is suppressed while the mythic is equipped, so it never "fires"

Quethrosar

would be nice if this worked for a trial with barrier, just keep that up all the time.

Panderbander

Having recently been the victim of 4 corrosive leaps all hitting for 25k a piece because I had the misfortune of running solo up to a resource, I can definitely say that there needs to be something done with both parts of this. Corrosive will always be a problem as long as it's both the best defensive and best offensive ult in the game, and Cryptcannon will just enable other broken combos if that specific one is broken--off the top of my head I can think of the 2 hand ultimate giving 100% penetration and enabling the exact same combo but just slightly less good.

NordSwordnBoard

Panderbander wrote: »

Having recently been the victim of 4 corrosive leaps all hitting for 25k a piece because I had the misfortune of running solo up to a resource, I can definitely say that there needs to be something done with both parts of this. Corrosive will always be a problem as long as it's both the best defensive and best offensive ult in the game, and Cryptcannon will just enable other broken combos if that specific one is broken--off the top of my head I can think of the 2 hand ultimate giving 100% penetration and enabling the exact same combo but just slightly less good.

That's overkill by them, unless you run over 50k health. Remember, the player giving them this ultimate has none to use, and if leap cost 1 ultimate point more, they would only get you with 3. How often do you 1v4 or 5 dks and win? If they were stealthed, again it's a troll overkill. Cryptcannon could be removed and you get the same result.

Once people see the telegraph of ulti flowing to allies, it becomes a focus just like a healer for damage. I really see no problem with crytpcannon, of course I have user bias. I also never feel bad if they took more than 2 ultimates to kill just me.

Panderbander

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Having recently been the victim of 4 corrosive leaps all hitting for 25k a piece because I had the misfortune of running solo up to a resource, I can definitely say that there needs to be something done with both parts of this. Corrosive will always be a problem as long as it's both the best defensive and best offensive ult in the game, and Cryptcannon will just enable other broken combos if that specific one is broken--off the top of my head I can think of the 2 hand ultimate giving 100% penetration and enabling the exact same combo but just slightly less good.

That's overkill by them, unless you run over 50k health. Remember, the player giving them this ultimate has none to use, and if leap cost 1 ultimate point more, they would only get you with 3. How often do you 1v4 or 5 dks and win? If they were stealthed, again it's a troll overkill. Cryptcannon could be removed and you get the same result.

Once people see the telegraph of ulti flowing to allies, it becomes a focus just like a healer for damage. I really see no problem with crytpcannon, of course I have user bias. I also never feel bad if they took more than 2 ultimates to kill just me.

Obviously I wasn't going to win a 1v4 or 5 versus 4 DKs and a Warden with a 38k werewolf, but the rate at which ulti can be gained and the fact the ultimate hits as an AOE means we've just created Necro DC bomber 2.0 wherein one or a few players mindlessly destroys entire zergs of players and resets remarkably fast to the point they can do it again.

To be clear, these people aren't some honorable "defending the keep against the enemy horde" folks. They're hanging out in towers to try to drag as many people into a chokepoint as they can before unleashing hell on them. In my case they came out to greet me as I was apparently the first to respond to the resource flipping bait.

It's just not a design that's conducive to enjoyable gameplay outside of the people taking advantage of the problem sets. There's next to no counterplay and until they attack they can literally just sit defensively until they're ready to 1 tap you.

Panderbander

I should add, I really don't think Corrosive (or even the 2h ultimate) was ever designed with the capability to supercharge another ultimate in mind.

NordSwordnBoard

Panderbander wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Having recently been the victim of 4 corrosive leaps all hitting for 25k a piece because I had the misfortune of running solo up to a resource, I can definitely say that there needs to be something done with both parts of this. Corrosive will always be a problem as long as it's both the best defensive and best offensive ult in the game, and Cryptcannon will just enable other broken combos if that specific one is broken--off the top of my head I can think of the 2 hand ultimate giving 100% penetration and enabling the exact same combo but just slightly less good.

That's overkill by them, unless you run over 50k health. Remember, the player giving them this ultimate has none to use, and if leap cost 1 ultimate point more, they would only get you with 3. How often do you 1v4 or 5 dks and win? If they were stealthed, again it's a troll overkill. Cryptcannon could be removed and you get the same result.

Once people see the telegraph of ulti flowing to allies, it becomes a focus just like a healer for damage. I really see no problem with crytpcannon, of course I have user bias. I also never feel bad if they took more than 2 ultimates to kill just me.

Obviously I wasn't going to win a 1v4 or 5 versus 4 DKs and a Warden with a 38k werewolf, but the rate at which ulti can be gained and the fact the ultimate hits as an AOE means we've just created Necro DC bomber 2.0 wherein one or a few players mindlessly destroys entire zergs of players and resets remarkably fast to the point they can do it again.

To be clear, these people aren't some honorable "defending the keep against the enemy horde" folks. They're hanging out in towers to try to drag as many people into a chokepoint as they can before unleashing hell on them. In my case they came out to greet me as I was apparently the first to respond to the resource flipping bait.

It's just not a design that's conducive to enjoyable gameplay outside of the people taking advantage of the problem sets. There's next to no counterplay and until they attack they can literally just sit defensively until they're ready to 1 tap you.

I think your problem is tower trolls. I went in a duo with a friend and actually got such a group one by one by having singular focus and constant heavy pressure. Saying there is no counterplay is wrong, when cryptcannon actually enabled us to get kills.

We used knowledge, skill, and coordination to win outnumbered. It was so nostalgic!

Panderbander

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Having recently been the victim of 4 corrosive leaps all hitting for 25k a piece because I had the misfortune of running solo up to a resource, I can definitely say that there needs to be something done with both parts of this. Corrosive will always be a problem as long as it's both the best defensive and best offensive ult in the game, and Cryptcannon will just enable other broken combos if that specific one is broken--off the top of my head I can think of the 2 hand ultimate giving 100% penetration and enabling the exact same combo but just slightly less good.

That's overkill by them, unless you run over 50k health. Remember, the player giving them this ultimate has none to use, and if leap cost 1 ultimate point more, they would only get you with 3. How often do you 1v4 or 5 dks and win? If they were stealthed, again it's a troll overkill. Cryptcannon could be removed and you get the same result.

Once people see the telegraph of ulti flowing to allies, it becomes a focus just like a healer for damage. I really see no problem with crytpcannon, of course I have user bias. I also never feel bad if they took more than 2 ultimates to kill just me.

Obviously I wasn't going to win a 1v4 or 5 versus 4 DKs and a Warden with a 38k werewolf, but the rate at which ulti can be gained and the fact the ultimate hits as an AOE means we've just created Necro DC bomber 2.0 wherein one or a few players mindlessly destroys entire zergs of players and resets remarkably fast to the point they can do it again.

To be clear, these people aren't some honorable "defending the keep against the enemy horde" folks. They're hanging out in towers to try to drag as many people into a chokepoint as they can before unleashing hell on them. In my case they came out to greet me as I was apparently the first to respond to the resource flipping bait.

It's just not a design that's conducive to enjoyable gameplay outside of the people taking advantage of the problem sets. There's next to no counterplay and until they attack they can literally just sit defensively until they're ready to 1 tap you.

I think your problem is tower trolls. I went in a duo with a friend and actually got such a group one by one by having singular focus and constant heavy pressure. Saying there is no counterplay is wrong, when cryptcannon actually enabled us to get kills.

We used knowledge, skill, and coordination to win outnumbered. It was so nostalgic!

Cryptcannon enabled kills as in you were also running it? If so, that just underscores the problem. If not, then you clearly didn't eat 100k damage worth of leaps and I can't speak to what happened.

FantasticFreddie

Forums: complain about tank meta
Forums: complain about ballgroups
Zos: here is a mythic item that is disproportionately better in smaller groups or even a pair, that allows smaller groups to do lots of damage and counter both ball groups and the tank meta
Forums: OMG NERF IT

Necrotech_Master

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Forums: complain about tank meta
Forums: complain about ballgroups
Zos: here is a mythic item that is disproportionately better in smaller groups or even a pair, that allows smaller groups to do lots of damage and counter both ball groups and the tank meta
Forums: OMG NERF IT

i think this is partially why we have a tank meta

every time something comes out that actually works to kill people (pre-nerf hrothgar for example), people complain, then the item is overnerfed into niche or uselessness (in the case with hrothgar it had a bug fix and an unneeded nerf at the same time making it worthless)

i never actually used hrothgar because i was still collecting it pre-nerf and due to the bug fix + the nerf reducing its dmg potential by 75% it wasnt worth using

Panderbander

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Forums: complain about tank meta
Forums: complain about ballgroups
Zos: here is a mythic item that is disproportionately better in smaller groups or even a pair, that allows smaller groups to do lots of damage and counter both ball groups and the tank meta
Forums: OMG NERF IT

FIX THE GAME. ZOS needs to quit using bandaid fixes like sets to address problems with the balance of the game itself.

FireBreathingNord

This combo has been around for a while - way before this mythic. Not a problem with the new mythic.

chessalavakia_ESO

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Forums: complain about tank meta
Forums: complain about ballgroups
Zos: here is a mythic item that is disproportionately better in smaller groups or even a pair, that allows smaller groups to do lots of damage and counter both ball groups and the tank meta
Forums: OMG NERF IT

i think this is partially why we have a tank meta

every time something comes out that actually works to kill people (pre-nerf hrothgar for example), people complain, then the item is overnerfed into niche or uselessness (in the case with hrothgar it had a bug fix and an unneeded nerf at the same time making it worthless)

i never actually used hrothgar because i was still collecting it pre-nerf and due to the bug fix + the nerf reducing its dmg potential by 75% it wasnt worth using

I'd argue much of the reason you have a tank meta is due to the amount of damage.

For example, my character that died to a Vestments boosted DK was a Warden healer that had around 35k HP. If that type of thing becomes common, I will likely need to adjust by raising my hp, adding more critical resistance, or by using Nibenay Bay Battlereeve. All of which will make my character more tanky.