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Could we please get an update on hybridization? (Enchantments change suggestion)

shukkig4
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It's almost 2 years now since we've got hybrid stats on sets and we've been told that over time some other things would be hybridized (potions, enchantments + class passives are in awkward place), however 2 years later we're still in this state where some things are hybridized some are not. I understand changing potions might be a bit difficult, especially considering that restoring both mag and stam could be problematic (mostly for pvp), however could we please get an update to enchantments?

Right now a lot of gear can be shared between characters and you generally end up choosing best gear for encounter, however if you play both magicka and stamina characters, what happens is that you have to swap your enchantments all the time. Sure some classes are almost the same regardless if you play mag or stam, but there are still some differences and it changes sustain, and there are still reasons to have some characters speced into both max mag and max stam.

My suggestion would be to do what you've done with arcanists, except do that with enchantments. Instead of having Max Magicka and Max Stamina enchantments, make it so that one of them increases your highest offensive resource the other increases your lowest offensive resource, so magicka glyph could be changed to increase either max magicka or stamina by 868 (whichever is higher) and stamina glyph would do the opposite - increase your magicka or stamina by 868 (whichever is lowest).

In most cases people want to match their attributes with enchantments, but in some rare cases people want to increase opposite resource without running prismatic glyps. This would simply allow people to not have to constantly change glyphs or having to clutter inventory with otherwise two identical sets but with different glyphs. Instead of changing current magicka and stamina glyphs, you could also introduce 2 new glyphs that would do this, but at least from outside perspective it feels like that would be a bit redundant?
In any case, I'm not sure if you have the ability to scale enchantments based on our resources, but it would be really nice if we could at least get an update to the current unfinished hybridization.

Thanks.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
    CameraBeardThePirate
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    This wouldn't really make sense functionally though.

    What would happen if I had 20k stam, 19.5k mag? After using 1 of the "lower max resource" enchantments my lowest and highest would be flipped.

    We also don't need to hybridize everything. It makes sense for buffs that are mandatory on all builds, but there's no real reason to have those glyphs dynamically scale.
  • Treeshka
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    I think best solution would be crafting another piece of that item. I have like twelve piece of body pieces for meta sets. One set of Magicka enchants and one set of Stamina enchants.
  • shukkig4
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    We also don't need to hybridize everything. It makes sense for buffs that are mandatory on all builds, but there's no real reason to have those glyphs dynamically scale.

    There are multiple ways to tackle first problem. Hybridization in it's current state is simply unfinished. Personally I wasn't a fan of it in a first place, but it's here now and it's clear that it is something zos wants in the game, however years later it's still unfinished. Potions are still not hybridized, we still have some class passives which are more not universal, having to slot camo hunter front bar just to have right crit buff in case the potions you use for sustain don't match the class in a raid is not a difficult thing, it's just unnecessarily restrictive.

    Take stam sorc as example, in order to utilize their own passive in a solo setting, they either have to use spell power pots, or use camo hunter/inner light, they have no class skill providing them major prophecy and only 2 skills providing it are passive skills with no use in pve. Magicka nbs were the same until this patch and realistically cloak isn't something that really fixed this issue. I feel like we've been long past the point of "everything doesn't need to be hybridized" and at this point we just have some annoying leftovers and random exceptions for no good reason.
    Treeshka wrote: »
    I think best solution would be crafting another piece of that item. I have like twelve piece of body pieces for meta sets. One set of Magicka enchants and one set of Stamina enchants.

    I have some of the most common sets in both mag and stam, the problem is that it takes a lot of space to have all meta sets in both versions, but that's just something that inconvenient for me. Far more important thing is that it affects a lot of mid tier players, they simply can't afford to craft two sets of gold gear or change the enchantments between raids. You're an end game player and you can do it, so can I, but a lot of other people can't, but they don't want to play one character or be limited to just playing mag or stam. You could say that they don't need to have gold armor, since it's a small gain, however if somebody has a golded armor already, they don't want to use lower quality armor. Likewise you could say people that aren't score pushing don't need to optimize that much and you would be right, but again it's something that is negatively impacting people's desire to play the game or least raids. For me it makes little differene, since there's basically no reason to play anything but stam arcanist, but I still believe this is something that should be addressed.
  • CameraBeardThePirate
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    shukkig4 wrote: »
    We also don't need to hybridize everything. It makes sense for buffs that are mandatory on all builds, but there's no real reason to have those glyphs dynamically scale.

    There are multiple ways to tackle first problem. Hybridization in it's current state is simply unfinished. Personally I wasn't a fan of it in a first place, but it's here now and it's clear that it is something zos wants in the game, however years later it's still unfinished. Potions are still not hybridized, we still have some class passives which are more not universal, having to slot camo hunter front bar just to have right crit buff in case the potions you use for sustain don't match the class in a raid is not a difficult thing, it's just unnecessarily restrictive.

    Take stam sorc as example, in order to utilize their own passive in a solo setting, they either have to use spell power pots, or use camo hunter/inner light, they have no class skill providing them major prophecy and only 2 skills providing it are passive skills with no use in pve. Magicka nbs were the same until this patch and realistically cloak isn't something that really fixed this issue. I feel like we've been long past the point of "everything doesn't need to be hybridized" and at this point we just have some annoying leftovers and random exceptions for no good reason.
    Treeshka wrote: »
    I think best solution would be crafting another piece of that item. I have like twelve piece of body pieces for meta sets. One set of Magicka enchants and one set of Stamina enchants.

    I have some of the most common sets in both mag and stam, the problem is that it takes a lot of space to have all meta sets in both versions, but that's just something that inconvenient for me. Far more important thing is that it affects a lot of mid tier players, they simply can't afford to craft two sets of gold gear or change the enchantments between raids. You're an end game player and you can do it, so can I, but a lot of other people can't, but they don't want to play one character or be limited to just playing mag or stam. You could say that they don't need to have gold armor, since it's a small gain, however if somebody has a golded armor already, they don't want to use lower quality armor. Likewise you could say people that aren't score pushing don't need to optimize that much and you would be right, but again it's something that is negatively impacting people's desire to play the game or least raids. For me it makes little differene, since there's basically no reason to play anything but stam arcanist, but I still believe this is something that should be addressed.

    I wasn't arguing against the passives at all, but dynamically scaling max stat glyphs don't really fit into the idea of hybridization. Again, it wouldn't make sense logistically to add something that gives you stats based on your stats - if you have near equal stats what would the glyphs even do?

    If anything, it's more beneficial to hybridization to have discreet glyphs for mag and stam so that you can mix and match them.
  • Holycannoli
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    Less hybridization, more specialization. Sucks that we'd have to have separate gear for each character but all this hybridization nonsense is making for a bland game.
  • WrathOfInnos
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    I don’t think we’ll ever see Magicka or Stamina armor enchants hybridized. It seems like the stat pools were left independent intentionally. This is the only thing left that differentiates mag vs stam builds, matching attributes to armor enchants and racial passives. I could maybe see a bi-stat enchant being added with reduced value of each resource, around 3/4 the standard (could be 2/3 or 4/5, just guessing).

    The main pain point for enchants was jewelry weapon or spell damage, and this has been addressed. I found the solution (adding 10 regen and making the damage stat hybrid) was a little odd, but it does work now. You no longer need to change enchants depending on whether there is a DK or Templar in group, so this is a win.

    Potions definitely need the same treatment. Anything that gives Major Sorcery should also give Major Brutality. Anything that gives Major Prophecy should give Major Savagery. This does not mean Magicka potions should restore Stamina, or Stamina potions should restore Magicka. We can already make bi or tri stay potions and they are balanced.

    Class passives are also a big issue. There is no reason why having a Sorcerer in group should prevent Nightblade from giving everyone 6% crit chance. Similar story for Templar, with their Minor Sorcery always overshadowed by Dragonknight’s Minor Brutality (plus Major Brutality with Igneous Weapons). We need reasons for class diversity in groups. Hybridization broke this, and led to DK and Arcanist stacking.

    I think the last one on my list is Mundas stones. I’m fine with Tower/Mage and Serpent/Atronach remaining single stat. However the Apprentice/Warrior split makes no sense with the current system. All other sources of weapon or spell damage are hybrid now, which means this has little impact on gameplay, but it’s just strange. Thief is hybrid, Shadow is hybrid, Lover is hybrid.
    Edited by WrathOfInnos on August 31, 2023 4:49PM
  • Lags
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    we really need potions to be hybrdizied too. Like if im on a DK and want weapon damage, but would rather use a mag potion for sustain, i should be able to get mag/weapon crit/weapon damage. I dont like hybridization, but this is what they wanted and it only makes sense to update potions too. Maybe in 5 years with the pace of things around here.
  • shukkig4
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    I agree with pretty much everything that has been said, maybe I'm looking at it from wrong angle, but over the last few months I've been trying to help some lower and mid tier groups with clearing content, getting ready for hard modes, etc. One of the pain points for people is that it costs a lot of gold for people to change gear between magicka and stamina characters. There's been less and less raids that people participate in, even spontaneous raids in various discords don't fill up as quickly they did before, Craglorn pugs take hour+ to organize, etc. Obviously there's many reasons for this, but people back in the day would do trials on multiple characters, now if they have a prog on mag character, they won't even consider coming on some stam characters, because having to swap glyphs for one - two raids is costly and tedious.

    In any case, at least getting some update on potions and class passives would be nice, since those are also in this weird state for over a year. Understandably changing those is a bit more complex, but we shouldn't be in the situation where some things haven't been updated to new system for so long and we have no idea if zos is even going to do anything about it.
  • ItsNotLiving
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    I’m still hoping that update 40 will come around and they’ll just say “hybridization was a huge mistake and we’re getting rid of it”
  • Holycannoli
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    I’m still hoping that update 40 will come around and they’ll just say “hybridization was a huge mistake and we’re getting rid of it”

    Heck if it was up to me I'd get rid of the whole magicka, health, stamina system all together and go back to classic TES skills and abilities, like we had in Morrowind and Daggerfall.

    I've been playing BG3 and I forgot how deeply satisfying it is to have a more complex skills and abilities system in a game, specializing in a few skills at the expense of others. Elder Scrolls used to be like that until Skyrim when they dumbed it all down. Hybridization took that already overly simplified Skyrim system and made it even more overly simplified.
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