Do you prefer for dungeons to have hard-set group mechanics?

Gray_howling_parrot

Let me clarify - what I mean is, are you okay with the fact that some dungeons are mechanically unable to be soloed? I love playing this game (even though it's an MMO) in a solo capacity as a challenge, not necessarily because I prefer it. One wish I do have would be that you are physically able to solo 100% of dungeons if you have the skill - some don't allow it simply because they require another person to properly progress.

Tandor

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Options are always important in games, and soloing should be an option for those who want it at least in normal dungeons. I'd accept e.g. 2 pressure plates as a mechanic if you could use a companion for one of them. I'm also in favour of having group content so having such mechanics in veteran dungeons would also be fair enough, although again there is a case to be made for having options.

Also, in before the inevitable "why don't you play Skyrim if you don't want to do dungeons in a group?" comment. ESO isn't a group game, it's a multiplayer game in which a variety of playstyles is catered for. Forcing someone to do a part of the game in a playstyle that isn't enjoyed for whatever reason will always just mean the player doesn't do that that content. Hence the benefit to everyone of having options.

sarahthes

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Sometimes when I'm farming gear for raids I just wanna hop in on normal and chill for a bit.

Also, I don't like people.

amig186

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Same reasoning as you pretty much, if someone is strong enough to tackle all the enemies on his own, then I don't think he should be stopped by such a mechanic.

Anumaril

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

I came across this problem with the Dragonstar Arena and was seriously annoyed. I like things being soloable (if you have good enough gear/skill to do so), but some dungeons are designed to not be in a way that annoys me to no end.

Snamyap

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Anumaril wrote: »

I came across this problem with the Dragonstar Arena and was seriously annoyed. I like things being soloable (if you have good enough gear/skill to do so), but some dungeons are designed to not be in a way that annoys me to no end.

I solo nDSA without issues. Where do you have trouble?

Also, I hate those forced group mechanics with a burning passion. While some can be by passed with some shenanigans and out of the box thinking, some simply can't. At least remove it from the Normal version.

And I also simply don't like peoples.

AcadianPaladin

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

If I can't solo it, I don't do it. Only my templar is able to solo Direfrost Keep and I hate that my other characters can't . . . or I can't tell my companion to stand on that stupid plate. Even Stibbons can stand on a plate for crying out loud (Stibbo Stay!).

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the Dungeons, Trials & Arenas section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.

the1andonlyskwex

Yes (comment below w/ reasoning)

Dungeons are group activities. Making them soloable severely limits the types of interesting mechanics that they can include.

Tandor

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Dungeons are group activities. Making them soloable severely limits the types of interesting mechanics that they can include.

That's a valid reason for adding mechanics to the veteran dungeons, but making normal dungeons group-only would greatly reduce their appeal (and probably DLC sales too).

Necrotech_Master

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

i dont like mechanics forcing a group

however there are ways to work around some of them (which people have found by attempting to solo them anyway) lol

the psijic ult precognition can get you out of a majority of the lockdown mechanics, but honestly having something you cant ccbreak from on your own is incredibly annoying

KlauthWarthog

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

No, I don't, and I am including both in-combat and out-of-combat mechanics here.
Does anyone have a reasonable explanation on why we couldn't topple a stone sarcophagus or stack a bunch of broken pottery on top of a pressure plate in Direfrost Keep, anyway?

AvalonRanger

Yes (comment below w/ reasoning)

Yes and NO. Not so simple problem.

I don't so hate 4 men dungeon content, but most of speed runner ignore
interesting secret contents which need for Vet difficulty.
And, we can't access some of secret boss without multiple players.

I want some simulation mode for studying new dungeon mech with virtual NPC group mate.

Mik195

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

It depends on the mechanic. Standing on pressure plates just to force grouping is stupid but I would accept if there was a mechanic where one person needed to drag the boss to a location, another needed to do something to drop the boss into a pit and someone else dropped explosive barrels on the boss's head.

I'd be happiest if everything has a maximum number of people, but if you were good enough, you could do it with fewer. I'd love to hear about people who managed to solo trials because completion was based on their skill and not stopped by artificial roadblocks. It would be cool to see the progression - first complete with 8, first with 6, etc.

Amottica

Yes (comment below w/ reasoning)

They are group dungeons so it makes sense there would be mechanics requiring a group. Mechanics requirement more than one player in group content should be expected. I am surprised we do not have more of such things.

Group content should never try to cater to a solo player. That would mean holding back on possibilities for something that does not fit with the purpose of the dungeon.

What is needed in ESO is a solo version of the 4-man dungeons. One where the mechanics are simple enough to be done solo. This would not be for a challenge but for those who want to see the story but do not want to have to group to see it. This is most needed for the dungeons that are part of the year-long story.

Snamyap

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

If I can't solo it, I don't do it. Only my templar is able to solo Direfrost Keep and I hate that my other characters can't . . . or I can't tell my companion to stand on that stupid plate. Even Stibbons can stand on a plate for crying out loud (Stibbo Stay!).

The locked door that is normally the exit. There is a troll in the hallway. Use a skill like caltrops, a ranged skill that drops an area effect, you should be able to get his attention that way. When he approaches use a gap closer. Next door you can just use a gap closer on one of the mobs inside.

endgamesmug

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

I do like activities with friends but soloing has always been the best for me. I have to be my own healer/tank and dps so without crutches i get better through practice and problem solving.

Soarora

Yes and no, so I’m not voting. Requiring 2 pressure plates is unnecessary but dungeons should have defined mechanics for tank, dps, and healer. Healer tends to not have mechanics unfortunately. Things should be soloable with companion, but maybe not soloable without, just because healchecks on tanks can be healed through by tanks, which again, reduces the importance of healers. It shouldn’t be healable by the person with it, like MGF HM.

Anumaril

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Snamyap wrote: »

I solo nDSA without issues. Where do you have trouble?

I think it's the penultimate boss, the one with skeletons where you get teleported to another area. When you get teleported the battle resets since there is no longer anyone in the main boss room. But I haven't found any way of avoiding that teleport. It just spawns right beneath your feet and you get instantly teleported whether you like it or not, resetting the boss.

Necrotech_Master

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Anumaril wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

I solo nDSA without issues. Where do you have trouble?

I think it's the penultimate boss, the one with skeletons where you get teleported to another area. When you get teleported the battle resets since there is no longer anyone in the main boss room. But I haven't found any way of avoiding that teleport. It just spawns right beneath your feet and you get instantly teleported whether you like it or not, resetting the boss.

the holes spawn in fixed locations, so you can avoid standing on those

just have to be careful of the enemies with chains as they sometimes can pull you over a hole

Braffin

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

While I rarely run dungeons solo nowadays, I think there should always be the possibility to do so. So I'm against forced grouping by hard-set mechanics.

It's not logical to block progress of players, which otherwise could complete said dungeons easily by simply placing a button, like in direfrost keep for example.

That said, also agree with @Soarora above: The ability to solo dungeons must not lead to a reduction of general complexity of mechanics. So I wouldn't touch fights like the harvester in wayrest sewers 2 or chaining mechanics like in FG2. It' on the player to find creative solutions for thus encounters, if he intends to solo them.

Credible_Joe

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Removing hard group checks in dungeons would do a lot to alleviate the easy and boring overland content problem. It would also allow more people to enjoy the narratives of dungeons, which are largely skipped by groups.

I've never understood the hard division between solo and group content. Additional backup should be a commodity, not a necessity.

Necrotech_Master

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Braffin wrote: »

While I rarely run dungeons solo nowadays, I think there should always be the possibility to do so. So I'm against forced grouping by hard-set mechanics.

It's not logical to block progress of players, which otherwise could complete said dungeons easily by simply placing a button, like in direfrost keep for example.

That said, also agree with Soarora above: The ability to solo dungeons must not lead to a reduction of general complexity of mechanics. So I wouldn't touch fights like the harvester in wayrest sewers 2 or chaining mechanics like in FG2. It' on the player to find creative solutions for thus encounters, if he intends to solo them.

well a problem with wayrest 2 is there is no functional workaround to do that solo, the original method was to pull the boss back to the doorway, but that no long works, and that is one of the few lockdown mechanics that you cant break out of with precognition

the only possible method ive heard to survive it is to consume a food item the split second after the hold releases before the final tick happens since its scaled dmg, but the margin of error on that is so slim that it would be a waste of time trying

its basically akin to direfrost keep where if there was not a way jump through that door, you would be stuck because of a 2nd pressure plate, or building extremely tanky to endure the slog in red petal bastion getting turned into a goat constantly

similar 2 person mechanics that are extremely difficult to bypass would be the levers in ICP, and there are many dlc dungeons with optional side bosses that are impossible to reach without multiple players (black drake villa, dread cellar, red petal bastion for examples)

so no, there are not always workarounds/counters for these mechanics, or involve pseudo-buggy behavior (direfrost keep)

Daoin

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

i would prefer to be able to do everything with my companions, no add ons or voice chat and without people peeping into my inventory everytime i get loot but they dont seem capable of making such dungeons possible at all levels of play.

Jaimeh

Yes (comment below w/ reasoning)

I think it's OK if there are just a couple that cannot be solo'ed, since the majority can, after all grouping should be encouraged in a game like this, and it's only a very small fraction of the total number of fights.

Blood_again

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Don't get me wrong. I really enjoy some challenging bosses which require good coordination in group. It is a great fun, when you do a group run. Same with "don't do it" mechanics, that can wipe the group by wrong action.
But I hate it becomes a progress blocker despite your ability to massacre the whole dungeon.

I would love to see a story mode for group content, which would allow to run the story solo with all that "save your mate" mechanics off.
Same with Direfrost step-plates. I remember times when Na-Totambu group event required two players to be activated. Today it is soloable. Why don't do the same with those plates?

mdjessup4906

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

I play with groups all the time, and I still like soloing. LET ME SOLO DANG IT!

Those mechs are also really irritating when you don't have a full group. Can't do the secret bosses in several of the dungeons because of it, which is especially annoying when we're in there for a lore/story run and the whole point is to do everything.

They could just make the player-number mechs scale to how many group members there are. Like, if there's only one person in group, you only need one pressure plate/brazier/etc, 2 players requires 2, and so on. And hard stuns, pins, etc don't happen if there's no one to break you free.

Necrotech_Master

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

I play with groups all the time, and I still like soloing. LET ME SOLO DANG IT!

Those mechs are also really irritating when you don't have a full group. Can't do the secret bosses in several of the dungeons because of it, which is especially annoying when we're in there for a lore/story run and the whole point is to do everything.

They could just make the player-number mechs scale to how many group members there are. Like, if there's only one person in group, you only need one pressure plate/brazier/etc, 2 players requires 2, and so on. And hard stuns, pins, etc don't happen if there's no one to break you free.

they did implement some of those things for newer dlc dungeons

coral aerie all of the side bosses are accessible solo, and the 4th secret boss while it has pressure pads, will work with any group size as long as the whole group is standing on them so its possible to solo still

Gray_howling_parrot

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

I play with groups all the time, and I still like soloing. LET ME SOLO DANG IT!

Those mechs are also really irritating when you don't have a full group. Can't do the secret bosses in several of the dungeons because of it, which is especially annoying when we're in there for a lore/story run and the whole point is to do everything.

They could just make the player-number mechs scale to how many group members there are. Like, if there's only one person in group, you only need one pressure plate/brazier/etc, 2 players requires 2, and so on. And hard stuns, pins, etc don't happen if there's no one to break you free.

they did implement some of those things for newer dlc dungeons

coral aerie all of the side bosses are accessible solo, and the 4th secret boss while it has pressure pads, will work with any group size as long as the whole group is standing on them so its possible to solo still

Which is great!

The dungeons that require 2 people to pull something like a lever (ICP) or stand on 2 plates (DFK) need to be able to be done with companions. We need to have commands like “stay here” or “interact with this”

mdjessup4906

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

coral aerie all of the side bosses are accessible solo, and the 4th secret boss while it has pressure pads, will work with any group size as long as the whole group is standing on them so its possible to solo still

Might have to try this again then. I two manned this with a guildie earlier this year and had to beg for 2 more people at the end because the thing wouldn't open with just us.

Necrotech_Master

No (comment below w/ reasoning)

mdjessup4906 wrote: »

coral aerie all of the side bosses are accessible solo, and the 4th secret boss while it has pressure pads, will work with any group size as long as the whole group is standing on them so its possible to solo still

Might have to try this again then. I two manned this with a guildie earlier this year and had to beg for 2 more people at the end because the thing wouldn't open with just us.

those pads do require the full (current) team to be standing on them

so if you have 2 players, both players have to be on the pads, 3 players - 3 pads, etc

my guess is that if you did the dungeon with 4, and 2 of them dropped after the normal final boss but without doing the secret boss, the secret boss would still be expecting 4 pads to be used

if you start the dungeon with 2 players, it should only need 2 pads for example