We have Any Race, Any Alliance but what about Any Race, Any Passive?

Sauce_B055

We already separate statistics from appearance when it comes to armor and weapons, so the same should apply to races and racial passives. Call it "character background" or something where their history defines their passive bonuses.
Just imagine if using the Outfit Station reduced the set bonus of your gear. It's not a good thing.

Arcturus

While I can see how people might think of this as lore unfriendly, if ZOS wants to defend their idea of "play how you want" then by all accounts no player ever should be forced to choose a certain race to play a certain way or fill a specific role efficiently.

Some people say racial passives don't make that much of a difference... well, they do. They really do.
Just because they're not noticeable while RP'ing in overland wonderland doesn't mean the differences aren't there, and for the actualy serious stuff in the game, the passive differences are huge.

So yeah, we need this.

merpins

Suggested this in the past:

Zos adopted the standing stones from TES 5, which was a simplification of the Birthsigns in TES 4. Birthsigns were basically your racial passives in ESO, except not tied to your race... Imo, they should bring back birthsigns. Sure, the TES 4 birthsigns are the same as the standing stone options, similar to horoscopes as you will, but like...

Add birthsigns. You get a single passive based on your race, which can be a bit more powerful than the initial ability is right now but doesn't really affect combat. Then, you get a birthsign choice at level 5, 10, and 25 as you do normally with racial choices. Just make it pop up when you go to level your character kinda like leveling in TES 5. These passive skills then rank up as you level up, and can have points put into them just like the normal racial skills system. Then make it so you can reset them at a shrine, like when you reset your skills (they might need to add a new shrine for this, probably Arkay as the god representing birth in this universe).

Personally, I'd love to play Bosmer and Argonian much more than I currently do, but can't justify since I do end game PVE dps. I've got soooo may great Argonian names on the backburner, but can't justify using them. Recently made an Argonian named "Funk-Soul-Brother" and I'll tell ya I wanna play him, but again... The deeps.

barney2525

Oh wonderful. let's absolutely Destroy the concept of Race and uniqueness so people can simply meta-game and every character will have the exact same passive skills.

the Appearance argument does not hold water since there were costumes before the outfitter. But the flaw in the argument is that the look of the character, no matter what they wore, was still Always the race. People complained that you could not get a good smile on a high elf. Skin color, hair color and features of the races such as being animalistic or having huge teeth were always signatures defining the race.

What you wear, as in ' the look', is completely different from what you Are, as in 'the look'. and the reference to imagining if the outfitter changed the stats of the armor is just silly. Your point should be to make the armor stats interchangeable, so you could pick and choose what stats your gear has. Then we could Really meta-game.

Let's just pick the passives for weapons too.

Arcturus

barney2525 wrote: »

Oh wonderful. let's absolutely Destroy the concept of Race and uniqueness so people can simply meta-game and every character will have the exact same passive skills.

the Appearance argument does not hold water since there were costumes before the outfitter. But the flaw in the argument is that the look of the character, no matter what they wore, was still Always the race. People complained that you could not get a good smile on a high elf. Skin color, hair color and features of the races such as being animalistic or having huge teeth were always signatures defining the race.

What you wear, as in ' the look', is completely different from what you Are, as in 'the look'. and the reference to imagining if the outfitter changed the stats of the armor is just silly. Your point should be to make the armor stats interchangeable, so you could pick and choose what stats your gear has. Then we could Really meta-game.

Let's just pick the passives for weapons too.

We're already meta slaves, and there is no such thing as "identity" anymore . Everyone is running the same stuff, there's hardly any wiggle room at all and for each role you're only going to see a handful of builds. Most annoying of all in my opinion is how everyone can cast flashy skills and spells even though they're supposed to be a warrior or assasin while my "mage" is limited to being a """sorcerer""" with an annoying bird and 2 zapity zap zap skills. I can't even summon fire or ice.

It would be a lot better if everyone could choose the same passive skills regardless of race and therefore allow themselves to use DIFFERENT active skills and have a wider variety of builds available. Or, you know, just getting rid of racial passives in the first place to completely separate looks from gameplay. There, you can now roleplay Shalidor 2.0 as a nord magsorc or play healer as a dark elf.

And as a side note, we're way overdue for less ugly races and higher poly humanoids. I don't have to stand having a flat backside or stick legs with maxed sliders just because I'm a breton male. From a lore perspective, we're also lacking a huge array of character creation choices considering races can procreate with each other and the child receives the race of the mother AND traits of the father.
It is not lore unfriendly to let a player make a white redguard without gigantic lips and nose if the mother decided to get it on with a nord.
Heck, Lyris exists. She's a half giant, product of some rather questionable recreational practises and even then toned down a little ingame to let her fit through doorways. Then you've got the Altmer, who quite literally have to "keep it in the family" to keep their appearance.

Sauce_B055

barney2525 wrote: »

let's absolutely Destroy the concept of Race and uniqueness

Apart from having vastly different appearances? That's like saying Mythic items are no longer unique because you can make the Gaze of Sithis look like an ordinary metal helmet.

barney2525 wrote: »

What you wear, as in ' the look', is completely different from what you Are

So... We agree, then? Appearance and statistics should be separate things? Because you can change your appearance A LOT using skins and polymorphs, yet your racial passives stay the same. For example, you don't suddenly gain Major Protection and Defile when you use the skeleton polymorph. I want that same concept applied to racial appearances. It's just the shape of your character and shouldn't have anything to do with stats or mechanics.

barney2525 wrote: »

and the reference to imagining if the outfitter changed the stats of the armor is just silly. Your point should be to make the armor stats interchangeable, so you could pick and choose what stats your gear has. Then we could Really meta-game.

Let's just pick the passives for weapons too.

This is literally how it currently works. You equip the gear for the stats, then make it look however you want... Same thing with weapons, you can equip a dagger just for the passive and make it look like a hammer, if that strikes your fancy. Thus, stats are "interchangeable" as you say.

OsUfi

No. There's not much left in the game that gives identity to anything anymore. It's a tiny bit of flavour to make each race a little bit different.

I_killed_Vivec

merpins wrote: »

Suggested this in the past:

Zos adopted the standing stones from TES 5, which was a simplification of the Birthsigns in TES 4. Birthsigns were basically your racial passives in ESO, except not tied to your race... Imo, they should bring back birthsigns. Sure, the TES 4 birthsigns are the same as the standing stone options, similar to horoscopes as you will, but like...

Add birthsigns. You get a single passive based on your race, which can be a bit more powerful than the initial ability is right now but doesn't really affect combat. Then, you get a birthsign choice at level 5, 10, and 25 as you do normally with racial choices. Just make it pop up when you go to level your character kinda like leveling in TES 5. These passive skills then rank up as you level up, and can have points put into them just like the normal racial skills system. Then make it so you can reset them at a shrine, like when you reset your skills (they might need to add a new shrine for this).

Personally, I'd love to play Bosmer and Argonian much more than I currently do, but can't justify since I do end game PVE dps. I've got soooo may great Argonian names on the backburner, but can't justify using them. Recently made an Argonian named "Funk-Soul-Brother" and I'll tell ya I wanna play him, but again... The deeps.

I came into the thread thinking "No. An orc is strong and stupid; a high elf is clever, fragile and cowardly; a bosmer is an underfed cockney. And that's how they should stay."

But then I read your post and I like the idea of birth signs. It could add a lot... maybe make things harder to balance, and the "meta" might be found pretty quickly, but it could add more diversity. And of course they can make birth signs have better synergies with specific races, so race birth sign combinations can be "equal" but different.

But not all combinations should be "good". When I played Morrowind I once experimented with an orc sorc - this was fun to play at low levels, because the orc was basically indestructible, but it was painful levelling up intelligence

BXR_Lonestar

I'm with the nay's on this one gentlemen.

Even in Skyrim, characters had racial passives. In Skyrim and Oblivion, the racial passives were kinda "meh" and did not really add much to your build late in the game, but they were still there. I don't think we need to go that direction here. I like that each race has its strengths and weaknesses, and if you want a race's particular passive, you have to play that race. Otherwise, characters would just become very generic. There might not be any Khajits or Argonians in the world if you could select their racial passive separate from their race. And there are only 2-3 racial passives that would actually be taken, depending on the roles you wish to fill.

Granted, I think some racial passives need some love and adjustments (looking at you Bosmer, Red Guard, and Argonian), but that doesn't mean the concept as a whole needs to be abandoned. Just do some tweaking on the passives so that each race brings SOMETHING really desirable when it comes to filling certain roles. Not every race needs to be top of the meta for a particular role, but they should have something that makes it a hard choice when picking, say, between a Nord, Argonian, or Imperial for a tank or a Khajit, Dark Elf, or High Elf for DPS.

TaSheen

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I'm with the nay's on this one gentlemen.

Even in Skyrim, characters had racial passives. In Skyrim and Oblivion, the racial passives were kinda "meh" and did not really add much to your build late in the game, but they were still there. I don't think we need to go that direction here. I like that each race has its strengths and weaknesses, and if you want a race's particular passive, you have to play that race. Otherwise, characters would just become very generic. There might not be any Khajits or Argonians in the world if you could select their racial passive separate from their race. And there are only 2-3 racial passives that would actually be taken, depending on the roles you wish to fill.

Granted, I think some racial passives need some love and adjustments (looking at you Bosmer, Red Guard, and Argonian), but that doesn't mean the concept as a whole needs to be abandoned. Just do some tweaking on the passives so that each race brings SOMETHING really desirable when it comes to filling certain roles. Not every race needs to be top of the meta for a particular role, but they should have something that makes it a hard choice when picking, say, between a Nord, Argonian, or Imperial for a tank or a Khajit, Dark Elf, or High Elf for DPS.

Fully agree with this.

VaranisArano

I think racial passives being tied to races are part of ESO's Elder Scrolls identity. There's always going to be some tension between the elements that come from the single-player RPGs and MMO players who want to mix-max for the endgame.

It's not that the passive haven't changed over the games' history or shouldn't be adjusted in ESO to better fit the lore or be less impactful on the meta...but I don't think "any race, any passive" fits the lore OR the series' gameplay.

emilyhyoyeon

IMO a more appropriate solution would be to rework (rebalance) the racial passives

Mesite

I can understand some of the arguments but don't agree. Just a feeling that it doesn't feel right. Even though I don't play as an argonian due to there being no DPS benefit.

However I do remember when everyone was encouraging me to be an argonian due to the passive that gave back loads of resources, even when the other passives gave no benefit.

I just picked up Sharp-As-Night and I don't feel the need to have an Argonian character now.

tomofhyrule

See, "play as you want" does mean you can play however you want, but not necessarily be optimal at whatever you want. A lot of high-end people love to use that argument to explain why casuals shouldn't be able to be handed trial HMs on a silver platter, but that argument also goes in reverse: your chosen race/class combo may or may not be 'optimal.'

In essence you're given a choice between two playstyles: "I like my main and I'll do whatever I can with them" or "I'm an unabashed slave to the meta."

Racials have been a feature of the Elder Scrolls series for a while, and I can't say I'm a fan of this idea that all RPGs should drop every unique feature of every race - I enjoy the stories where you can play a character who's not 'known' for doing a certain thing and doing it anyway.

I also think people overstate how much racials matter. Yes, it's one the order of a line and a half of a set bonus. We're essentially talking about a little more than the difference between a Perfected and a non-Perfected set. But playing a Redguard instead of a Dunmer will not all of a sudden make someone who's struggling in normal DSR all of a sudden get Swashbuckler without anything else.

Class is so much more of a factor in how meta someone is. Race is a half-level above cosmetic.

Dokolus

I'd probably love the passives be tweaked first, but the birth stones idea sounds more customisable and open for other players (which shouldn't harm those just choosing the regular ones that were originally default on each race).

That being said, racial passives aren't as big as some make them out to be. You're only going to see the min/maxers take racial passives into account, but casuals afaik don't care that much for them and usually roll with what they want to play/look like.

Auzsi

I agree with a comment above that any race any passive token is just stupid. However something is need to be done with racials. Forcing players to chose between being optimized or play a character they like is just a bad and unhealthy game design, something even the grandfather of all rpgs abandoned. Racials passives currently contribute to make characters boring and generic (9 out of 10 dps is a dual wielding dunmer LOL) instead of being interesting and unique, and making multiple cool and lore friendly character concept unoptimized and obsolete.

I think converting them into backgrounds or something like that is a great idea and that's whatt u21 should have been instead of another nonsense rework. Pick a race with some race specific unique traits like resistances, swimming or sprinting speed, bonuses to professions or stealth etc, then pick a backgroung which gives you various combat bonuses to create a cool and unique character to journey on Tamriel.

Race should never hold players back from achieving their goals even if that goal is being number 1 on the leaderboards.

Arcturus

tomofhyrule wrote: »

See, "play as you want" does mean you can play however you want, but not necessarily be optimal at whatever you want. A lot of high-end people love to use that argument to explain why casuals shouldn't be able to be handed trial HMs on a silver platter, but that argument also goes in reverse: your chosen race/class combo may or may not be 'optimal.'

In essence you're given a choice between two playstyles: "I like my main and I'll do whatever I can with them" or "I'm an unabashed slave to the meta."

Racials have been a feature of the Elder Scrolls series for a while, and I can't say I'm a fan of this idea that all RPGs should drop every unique feature of every race - I enjoy the stories where you can play a character who's not 'known' for doing a certain thing and doing it anyway.

I also think people overstate how much racials matter. Yes, it's one the order of a line and a half of a set bonus. We're essentially talking about a little more than the difference between a Perfected and a non-Perfected set. But playing a Redguard instead of a Dunmer will not all of a sudden make someone who's struggling in normal DSR all of a sudden get Swashbuckler without anything else.

Class is so much more of a factor in how meta someone is. Race is a half-level above cosmetic.

Passives matter and they're not a flavour feature. Race goes hand in hand with class.

Arcturus

OsUfi wrote: »

No. There's not much left in the game that gives identity to anything anymore. It's a tiny bit of flavour to make each race a little bit different.

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

Auzsi

Mesite wrote: »

I can understand some of the arguments but don't agree. Just a feeling that it doesn't feel right. Even though I don't play as an argonian due to there being no DPS benefit.

However I do remember when everyone was encouraging me to be an argonian due to the passive that gave back loads of resources, even when the other passives gave no benefit.

I just picked up Sharp-As-Night and I don't feel the need to have an Argonian character now.

Sharp is my favourite. He must have some kind of rare geneic mutation so unlike all other argonians he is not resistant to poisons and diseases. But the healing done. That's must be there. There are no argonians without the healing done. Lore friendly and it wouldn't feel right to remove them of course.

VaranisArano

Arcturus wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

No. There's not much left in the game that gives identity to anything anymore. It's a tiny bit of flavour to make each race a little bit different.

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

This quite pinpoints the tension between the single player RPGs of the Elder Scrolls vs the MMO-style end game that has a meta.

Both are true.

Racial passives do give a unique gameplay-based identity to the different races, which fits well wirh role-playing and what many TES players want from the series' lore and gameplay (see complaints about Bosmer and Argonian passive changes not making sense based on past lore.)

Min-maxing, meta following MMO players who're more concerned about the stats than the roleplay are naturally going flock to the one meta choice, no matter how many options they're given.

Like, here's a non-combat example: there was one player complaining that they felt pigeonholed into playing Khajiit for thieving because of the extra 5% pickpocket and 2m stealth bonus.

Unless racial passives are made completely inconsequential (to the disappointment of roleplayers and fans of TES racial passives) there's always going to be someone who's not happy that they have to pick a certain race to get certain stats.

9 dual dagger-wielding dunmer out of 10 damage dealers isn't saying as much about the state of racial passives. It's just saying that 9 out of 10 damage dealers would swap to dual axe-wielding Redguards if that's how the meta winds shifted.

tomofhyrule

Auzsi wrote: »

Pick a race with some race specific unique traits like resistances, swimming or sprinting speed, bonuses to professions or stealth etc, then pick a backgroung which gives you various combat bonuses to create a cool and unique character to journey on Tamriel.

And this is implying that these 'non-combat' bonuses won't affect anything at all.

As has already been said, Khajiit getting a pickpocketing bonus makes them BiS for anyone who wants to maximize profit-per-time when going on a pickpocketing spree. Increased inspiration for Orcs means that anyone who's intending to make a crafter *has* to play an Orc. I know several people who make Imperial writ mules specifically for the increased gold gen. And now there's a set that boots from XP, so that'll be better on an Altmer, and doesn't the AP bonus mean Bretons have an easier time getting emp?

Removing every bonus by race is counter to the idea of a fantasy RPG. And every bonus will give you a benefit in some area. Even if everything was the same, I can even see a hypothetical DSR run demanding everyone race-swaps to Argonian since the swim speed boost will help them get to the first trash pull faster and help them get in and out with deluge faster.

Arcturus wrote: »

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

The meta liking one specific setup doesn't mean anything other than that's what the meta is. Right now, it's Dunmer, DK, DW with inferno backbar, wearing Relequen and something else (sorry, I don't DPS so I don't remember the exact meta right now). Before, it was Oakensorcs with Storm Master and Sergeant's with lighting staves. I'm sure we've got Arcanists coming in with Velothi. Go figure that if there exists a Best in Slot, that people who want to be the top of the top will need to play the Best in Slot.

The meta is a thing. You can choose to be a slave to it or not. I don't. And yes I still have all dungeon challengers, a few dungeon trifectas, and even trial HMs even though my tank is ackchyually a DPS race (even though in lore, Orcs should technically be the tanky ones and Nords the DPSy ones...)

Auzsi

VaranisArano wrote: »

Arcturus wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

No. There's not much left in the game that gives identity to anything anymore. It's a tiny bit of flavour to make each race a little bit different.

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

This quite pinpoints the tension between the single player RPGs of the Elder Scrolls vs the MMO-style end game that has a meta.

Both are true.

Racial passives do give a unique gameplay-based identity to the different races, which fits well wirh role-playing and what many TES players want from the series' lore and gameplay (see complaints about Bosmer and Argonian passive changes not making sense based on past lore.)

Min-maxing, meta following MMO players who're more concerned about the stats than the roleplay are naturally going flock to the one meta choice, no matter how many options they're given.

Like, here's a non-combat example: there was one player complaining that they felt pigeonholed into playing Khajiit for thieving because of the extra 5% pickpocket and 2m stealth bonus.

Unless racial passives are made completely inconsequential (to the disappointment of roleplayers and fans of TES racial passives) there's always going to be someone who's not happy that they have to pick a certain race to get certain stats.

9 dual dagger-wielding dunmer out of 10 damage dealers isn't saying as much about the state of racial passives. It's just saying that 9 out of 10 damage dealers would swap to dual axe-wielding Redguards if that's how the meta winds shifted.

And don't think roleplayers or TES fans care about combat bonuses, they will always going to pick the race they like or played in the main titles and just ignore the racials. My point still stands combat bonuses should be removed or converted into another system (sw damage boost, crit damage boost, healing boost etc.) TES lore does not support them and most roleplayers and casuals just don't care about them, while flavor bonuses should stay where they are because they are part of the lore.

If you want to be stealthy pick a bosmer (LOL), if you want to swim faster pick argonian, if you want some fire resistance pick dunmer etc. That's how it should be, it's part of the lore, but no player should be pigeonholed into certain roles or playstyles based on their choice of race, especially when the entire tes franchise is about freedom and do whatever you want.

And race choice in mmos should never be a meta. If it is then something is poorly designed.

jle30303

merpins wrote: »

I've got soooo may great Argonian names on the backburner, but can't justify using them. Recently made an Argonian named "Funk-Soul-Brother" and I'll tell ya I wanna play him, but again... The deeps.

Hah, Argonian names. I just made a nice new Argonian Arcanist, with the name... "Cannot-Spell-Wizzard". Spot the reference :-)

Mik195

As someone who mains a bosmer, I'd certainly like any option to give me as many passives as other races.

kargen27

Arcturus wrote: »

While I can see how people might think of this as lore unfriendly, if ZOS wants to defend their idea of "play how you want" then by all accounts no player ever should be forced to choose a certain race to play a certain way or fill a specific role efficiently.

Some people say racial passives don't make that much of a difference... well, they do. They really do.
Just because they're not noticeable while RP'ing in overland wonderland doesn't mean the differences aren't there, and for the actualy serious stuff in the game, the passive differences are huge.

So yeah, we need this.

You can play how you want. If you want to play with the absolute best numbers then you play with the appropriate race. There is nothing stopping you from doing that. There should be some choices in the game that matter. If you want to chase the META go ahead and do so. You shouldn't expect it to be handed to you.

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

There will always be a top build and the players pushing the limits will all use that build. There is no change that can be made to the game that would prevent this. And I'm willing to bet dagger wielding Dunmer are nowhere near 90% of the DPS pool. Maybe 90% of those chasing leaders boards and trifectas? That 90% will always have the same build no matter what. They know what is the absolute best and will use it.
THe vast majority of players though really are not all that concerned with squeezing out each and every point they can.

Monte_Cristo

Wouldn't removing racial passives effectively remove race as well? Why bother picking a specific human or elf race, when all humans can have the same passives? Just make human, and move the features sliders to where you want to make it look like a breton/redguard/imperial/nord/reachman/whatever else. Same with elves, possibly excluding orcs.

JerBearESO

Please yes. Just yes. Give us any race any passive! NEED

KlauthWarthog

They monetized racial passives when they released race change tokens. They will not demonetize it now.

Sheezabeast

Why would you want to strip away racial identity from a game steeped in lore? It's not that kind of game.

VaranisArano

Auzsi wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Arcturus wrote: »

OsUfi wrote: »

No. There's not much left in the game that gives identity to anything anymore. It's a tiny bit of flavour to make each race a little bit different.

"Let's defend racials in the name of diversity and identity and ignore the fact that these features are making 9 out of 10 dd's a dunmer wearing dual daggers".

This quite pinpoints the tension between the single player RPGs of the Elder Scrolls vs the MMO-style end game that has a meta.

Both are true.

Racial passives do give a unique gameplay-based identity to the different races, which fits well wirh role-playing and what many TES players want from the series' lore and gameplay (see complaints about Bosmer and Argonian passive changes not making sense based on past lore.)

Min-maxing, meta following MMO players who're more concerned about the stats than the roleplay are naturally going flock to the one meta choice, no matter how many options they're given.

Like, here's a non-combat example: there was one player complaining that they felt pigeonholed into playing Khajiit for thieving because of the extra 5% pickpocket and 2m stealth bonus.

Unless racial passives are made completely inconsequential (to the disappointment of roleplayers and fans of TES racial passives) there's always going to be someone who's not happy that they have to pick a certain race to get certain stats.

9 dual dagger-wielding dunmer out of 10 damage dealers isn't saying as much about the state of racial passives. It's just saying that 9 out of 10 damage dealers would swap to dual axe-wielding Redguards if that's how the meta winds shifted.

And don't think roleplayers or TES fans care about combat bonuses, they will always going to pick the race they like or played in the main titles and just ignore the racials. My point still stands combat bonuses should be removed or converted into another system (sw damage boost, crit damage boost, healing boost etc.) TES lore does not support them and most roleplayers and casuals just don't care about them, while flavor bonuses should stay where they are because they are part of the lore.

If you want to be stealthy pick a bosmer (LOL), if you want to swim faster pick argonian, if you want some fire resistance pick dunmer etc. That's how it should be, it's part of the lore, but no player should be pigeonholed into certain roles or playstyles based on their choice of race, especially when the entire tes franchise is about freedom and do whatever you want.

And race choice in mmos should never be a meta. If it is then something is poorly designed.

Two out of your three examples of "flavor bonuses" (stealth and fire resistance) are combat bonuses. Dunmer + Vampire for the fire resistance has been a strong choice in PVP for a long while.

Like, really, unless the racial passives are made completely inconsequential for gameplay, it's always going to have an impact on the meta.

See also, the guy complaining about being pigeonholed over a 5% pickpocket bonus and 2 meters of stealth radius.

wolfie1.0.

Arcturus wrote: »

While I can see how people might think of this as lore unfriendly, if ZOS wants to defend their idea of "play how you want" then by all accounts no player ever should be forced to choose a certain race to play a certain way or fill a specific role efficiently.

Some people say racial passives don't make that much of a difference... well, they do. They really do.
Just because they're not noticeable while RP'ing in overland wonderland doesn't mean the differences aren't there, and for the actualy serious stuff in the game, the passive differences are huge.

So yeah, we need this.

You do realize that it is easier to make racial passives more superficial than they are now.

That's what happened the last time such complaints were pleasant.