Necromancer Should Have Sorceror's Conjuration Skill Tree

Napalm_Death32

I don't know if this should be common sense for others or for the Staff, maybe @ZOS_Bill could comment on their choice more but lets face it, the Necromancer is supposed to be the Conjuration Class & the Sorceror should be the AOE/DPS class.
The whole concept of a Necromancer is it summons skeletons, summons the dead & conjure Dremora entities, A Sorceror is meant to be the main damage & aoe class, it should be summoning high damaging spells, take concepts from Dragon's Dogma for example, it casts spells such as calling them meteors, aoe wirlwind drawing in enemies into one area while having high dps etc.
https://dragonsdogma.fandom.com/wiki/High_Bolide
https://dragonsdogma.wiki.fextralife.com/High+Maelstrom

I think they should rework the sorceror to have high damaging spells, aoe spells and rework the necromancer to be a support class, summoning skeletons & dremoras, a new spell that auto summons a temp skeleton from a fallen enemy, summons the exact same enemy that was defeated to power it to rise up, while keeping its healing ability atleast, I'd happily trade blastbones for a temporary enemy that breaks up once combat is done.

For sorceror, a new spell could be similar to the one ability in Control that creates a shield made of concrete:
https://control.fandom.com/wiki/Shield

And lastly, for the Necromancer, can we get this one spell that would make players more willing to play it and actually make it a viable class?
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Conjure_Dremora_Lord

PrinceShroob

In Dungeons and Dragons, Wizards learn spells through study while Sorcerers have access to magic from their bloodlines, though they mainly share the same possible spells. Since Elder Scrolls is based off Dungeons and Dragons, Arena and Daggerfall called Wizard "Mage" and had differentiated Sorcerers by allowing them to wear armor and giving them higher Magicka, at the cost of having Stunted Magicka (that is, Magicka does not recover when resting) and Spell Absorption.

When Morrowind added birthsigns, higher Magicka with Stunted Magicka and Spell Absorption were moved to the Atronach birthsign and the line between Mage and Sorcerer started to blur. Sorcerers had Conjuration and Enchant as Major Skills while Mage had them as Minor Skills, though without equipment restrictions the classes played more or less identically. The class description and NPC dialogues emphasized that Mages studied magic out of intellectual curiosity while Sorcerers were greedy for power, which they gained through bargaining with Oblivion and summoning undead and Daedra ("I am a sorcerer. Through my mastery of special disciplines of the College of Conjuration, and my private studies of the Outer Realms and their Powers and Principalities, I have learned to summon and command their denizens to do my bidding. I do these things for coin, or to suit my own interests...").

In Oblivion Mage and Sorcerer are nearly identical (one different skill and one different class attribute). Skyrim has no player classes (technically, NPCs do have classes but these are more prefabricated collections of combat skills than classes with lore, in the sense of, say, a class in Dungeons and Dragons).

Sorcerers in Online seem to take inspiration from the Morrowind class, since they summon Daedra and use Dark Magic (that is, magic that is aesthetically identical to the base game soul gems and implied to involve bargaining with Daedra and manipulating souls).

Necromancer has existed as a class since Morrowind, but only for NPCs. Due to how auto-calculated spells work in Morrowind, they could summon undead or Daedra, but Necromancers in Oblivion summon undead exclusively and Necromancers in Skyrim use spells to reanimate corpses rather than conjuring protectors.

It's worth noting that Oblivion and Skyrim are the only single-player Elder Scrolls games that allow the player to practice true necromancy--the reanimation of the dead. Spells that conjure undead are not necromancy because they summon creatures that resemble undead from a plane of Oblivion (that is, the creatures were never alive to begin with).

So I don't think it's correct to imply Sorcerer's have no connection to Conjuration, and I feel like it's more thematically appropriate for Necromancers to deal exclusively with the undead.

Napalm_Death32

PrinceShroob wrote: »

In Dungeons and Dragons, Wizards learn spells through study while Sorcerers have access to magic from their bloodlines, though they mainly share the same possible spells. Since Elder Scrolls is based off Dungeons and Dragons, Arena and Daggerfall called Wizard "Mage" and had differentiated Sorcerers by allowing them to wear armor and giving them higher Magicka, at the cost of having Stunted Magicka (that is, Magicka does not recover when resting) and Spell Absorption.

When Morrowind added birthsigns, higher Magicka with Stunted Magicka and Spell Absorption were moved to the Atronach birthsign and the line between Mage and Sorcerer started to blur. Sorcerers had Conjuration and Enchant as Major Skills while Mage had them as Minor Skills, though without equipment restrictions the classes played more or less identically. The class description and NPC dialogues emphasized that Mages studied magic out of intellectual curiosity while Sorcerers were greedy for power, which they gained through bargaining with Oblivion and summoning undead and Daedra ("I am a sorcerer. Through my mastery of special disciplines of the College of Conjuration, and my private studies of the Outer Realms and their Powers and Principalities, I have learned to summon and command their denizens to do my bidding. I do these things for coin, or to suit my own interests...").

In Oblivion Mage and Sorcerer are nearly identical (one different skill and one different class attribute). Skyrim has no player classes (technically, NPCs do have classes but these are more prefabricated collections of combat skills than classes with lore, in the sense of, say, a class in Dungeons and Dragons).

Sorcerers in Online seem to take inspiration from the Morrowind class, since they summon Daedra and use Dark Magic (that is, magic that is aesthetically identical to the base game soul gems and implied to involve bargaining with Daedra and manipulating souls).

Necromancer has existed as a class since Morrowind, but only for NPCs. Due to how auto-calculated spells work in Morrowind, they could summon undead or Daedra, but Necromancers in Oblivion summon undead exclusively and Necromancers in Skyrim use spells to reanimate corpses rather than conjuring protectors.

It's worth noting that Oblivion and Skyrim are the only single-player Elder Scrolls games that allow the player to practice true necromancy--the reanimation of the dead. Spells that conjure undead are not necromancy because they summon creatures that resemble undead from a plane of Oblivion (that is, the creatures were never alive to begin with).

So I don't think it's correct to imply Sorcerer's have no connection to Conjuration, and I feel like it's more thematically appropriate for Necromancers to deal exclusively with the undead.

I'm not saying Sorcs don't, all i'm saying is the Necromancers is supposed to be the summoner/pet class, not Sorcerors

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding.

Mesite

My necromancer wouldn't be happy with the idea of summoning daedric beasts. Meanwhile my sorcerer laughs at the Necromancers being chased by the guards, while his twilight tormentor flaps about unchallenged.

Strangely I never use shields except when I'm levelling up and need the skilll line to level quicker. I see them recommended in loads of builds though.

I need to revisit Skyrim though to try out the Dremora Lord summoning spell before I make my final decision.

Napalm_Death32

The dremora lord was awesome and op, honestly it could be an Ultimate, especially if they add in the lines used by them

StarOfElyon

"I smell weakness!... THERE YOU ARE!" 😂

Napalm_Death32

StarOfElyon wrote: »

"I smell weakness!... THERE YOU ARE!" 😂

Lol yeah, i remember my first time as a pure conjuror against Miraak, the dremora was like "There you are weakling" & absolutely steamrolled Miraak, same thing happened to Alduin

slt101880b14_ESO

Honestly, I'd be happy if they'd make Necro pets permanent, like sorcerers pets.

Sorcerers pets stay out with active abilities
Necro pet stay out with passive abilities.

Napalm_Death32

slt101880b14_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, I'd be happy if they'd make Necro pets permanent, like sorcerers pets.

Sorcerers pets stay out with active abilities
Necro pet stay out with passive abilities.

Definitely, like a bound undead or a Dremora Lord

the1andonlyskwex

I see a lot of "supposed to bes" that aren't really backed up by anything. Maybe sorcerer is "supposed to be" the class that summons daedra and necromancer is "supposed to be" the class that raises the dead. Who are you to say otherwise?

CameraBeardThePirate

A Necromancer does not summon Daedra. They are not a summoner - they raise the dead. It's literally in the name.

OtarTheMad

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy