Toxicity ToT In-game Chat

RCubed1967

I thought we were past the point of getting past the game's toxic language and bad actions. In the past couple of months, I seldom saw anyone exploiting the game timer or spamming crude or toxic comments in whispers. I had felt that most of the childish behaviour had left the Rubedite ranks.

Alas, I was wrong. Twice already this month, toxic whispers have been gifted to me. I report it hoping that ZOS will do something, but we never know...until now.

Today's occurrence was different and more unsettling. This time the whispers came from someone who is often well-ranked and is currently in the top 12 of NA. So we shall see if they get banned (as they should). It is easy to track since I can watch their scores. If not, I will be ending my sub to ESO at the end of the month.

@ZOS_Kevin - I hope you will discourage toxic acts.

Sheezabeast

I wonder....is it possible to be randomly paired with someone you have blocked?

If you block someone you should be able to not play against them in the matchmaker. Ideally.

Necrotech_Master

that sounds like pretty much all pvp

spend a few hours in cyrodiil/BGs/IC and your bound to get hate/salty whispers there too

ive even had random whispers in cyro (from people i never even participated in killing, and i checked because i have killcounter addon) that ive been reported lol (for what i have no clue, i tend to just ignore the salt in cyrodiil)

and you ending your sub wont stop pvp toxicity, not here, and not in any other pvp game (many other pvp related games are far more toxic than here)

RCubed1967

I might see that as well if they are not banned. I track every game and have played the person in question six times in the past 4 months.

But if I see them again (or their score changes), I know ZOS has not done anything except lose my sub.

VaranisArano

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I wonder....is it possible to be randomly paired with someone you have blocked?

If you block someone you should be able to not play against them in the matchmaker. Ideally.

It's a bit hard to ensure that players aren't blocking people because they are good, which leads to unintended consequences. An example from Overwatch: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/overwatch-avoid-this-player

"One of the best Widowmaker players in the world complained to us about long queue times," said Kaplan. "We looked into it and found that hundreds of other players had avoided him (he’s a nice guy – they avoided him because they did not want to play against him, not because of misbehavior).

"The end result was that it took him an extremely long time to find a match. The worst part was, by the time he finally got a match, he had been waiting so long that the system had “opened up” to lower skill players. Now one of the best Widowmaker players was facing off against players at a lower skill level. As a result, we’ve disabled the Avoid system (the UI will go away in an upcoming patch). The system was designed with the best intent. But the results were pretty disastrous."

AnduinTryggva

My block list is already pretty large. So large that I can no longer block ppl. Thanks to ToT

SeaGtGruff

You can report them, but unless they're actually threatening you or using some kind of recognizable hate speech, being a sore loser isn't against the COC. Best thing to do (after reporting them) is to realize that they are behaving in a childish fashion and then resolve to be more mature than them.

RCubed1967

Player is still playing. A 24 hour suspension at best.

Goes to show that ZOS will not do anything. Not on player toxicity. Not on comments regarding game play, excluding exploits.

I will follow through at the end of the month.

TinyDragon

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I wonder....is it possible to be randomly paired with someone you have blocked?

If you block someone you should be able to not play against them in the matchmaker. Ideally.

Can confirm it doesn't work like this- you can still be matched against blocked people.

I play in offline mode so no one can hate whisper me

Amottica

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

Kappachi

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

uhhh no? i whispered someone to tell them the reason why my turns lasted longer than usual was because of a phone call for instance. not everyone abuses the chat.

Vaqual

I will also whisper someone and ask to finish the match if he missed lethal for 1-2 turns in a row just to buy more cards.

Amottica

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

uhhh no? i whispered someone to tell them the reason why my turns lasted longer than usual was because of a phone call for instance. not everyone abuses the chat.

Very rare but also not necessary.

Necrotech_Master

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Amottica

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

uhhh no? i whispered someone to tell them the reason why my turns lasted longer than usual was because of a phone call for instance. not everyone abuses the chat.

Very rare but also not necessary.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

Necrotech_Master

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Personofsecrets

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

Amottica

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

Amottica

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

And if Zenimax wants to continue permitting chatting with the enemy in PvP or in the card game they should take up chat bans, and eventually do a chat permaban with repeat offenders.

Necrotech_Master

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Necrotech_Master

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

IncultaWolf

I love getting hate whispers from tales of tribute, I post them in my eso discords and we all laugh at them

Rajhin and Almalexia seem to be the best decks to farm salt with. Kinda funny that I noticed someone's name in this thread that actually sent my friend a hate whisper a while back also.

SeaGtGruff

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

I disagree that "it only serves a negative purpose." Usually, perhaps, but not always.

I've had some friendly conversations with enemies in Cyrodiil and Imperial City, probably more so than toxic ones.

As you said in your replies, those were "not necessary"-- but they were also some enjoyable, feel-good moments, so I'm glad they were able to occur.

Amottica

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

katanagirl1

You don’t have to turn off all the chat, you can just block the person with the hate whisper. ( We do not have ignore feature on console.)

I have got a few whispers from other alliance members, none really hate but more like “gg”. My faction’s zone text chat has been more hateful to me sometimes.

There seem to be enough workarounds that any changes are not really necessary.

EDIT: this is PvP obviously but it was mentioned above

Kappachi

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

This is an MMORPG, socializing is at the forefront of the genre. Removing ways to socialize make for a dull experience, i HATE the system in Guild Wars 2 how it obscures the names of the enemy players and such, as stated previously i enjoy sending and receiving good game messages or even talking further with someone I duel in ToT or PvP against in battlegrounds for instance to share tips or otherwise just banter. This whole idea of removing chat from PvP games which started in like digital card games like Hearthstone/Yugioh Master Duel/etc makes no sense to me when socializing is a huge part of gaming.

By the way, if you get toxic messages you should do your part and report the player, they will get increasingly longer suspensions until permabanned if they continue their toxic behavior, just like any other game.

sharquez

This is an interaction between you and another human being filtered through a videogame.

How you chose to act towards one another regardless how much you care, matters and does impact someone.

If you repeatedly have bad interactions with people, you get to chose how to deal with it moving forward. Maybe you have bad luck. Maybe you instigated it without knowing it. Or maybe you are taking something the wrong way. Or maybe the situation isn't worth the hassle.

Amottica

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

This is an MMORPG, socializing is at the forefront of the genre. Removing ways to socialize make for a dull experience, i HATE the system in Guild Wars 2 how it obscures the names of the enemy players and such, as stated previously i enjoy sending and receiving good game messages or even talking further with someone I duel in ToT or PvP against in battlegrounds for instance to share tips or otherwise just banter. This whole idea of removing chat from PvP games which started in like digital card games like Hearthstone/Yugioh Master Duel/etc makes no sense to me when socializing is a huge part of gaming.

By the way, if you get toxic messages you should do your part and report the player, they will get increasingly longer suspensions until permabanned if they continue their toxic behavior, just like any other game.

In the post you quoted I suggested a design that allows everyone to communicate freely and only takes action against those who repeatedly violate the TOS with their toxic whispers.

Why is that a problem? I fail to see a reason to protect toxic behavior.

Kappachi

Amottica wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

This is an MMORPG, socializing is at the forefront of the genre. Removing ways to socialize make for a dull experience, i HATE the system in Guild Wars 2 how it obscures the names of the enemy players and such, as stated previously i enjoy sending and receiving good game messages or even talking further with someone I duel in ToT or PvP against in battlegrounds for instance to share tips or otherwise just banter. This whole idea of removing chat from PvP games which started in like digital card games like Hearthstone/Yugioh Master Duel/etc makes no sense to me when socializing is a huge part of gaming.

By the way, if you get toxic messages you should do your part and report the player, they will get increasingly longer suspensions until permabanned if they continue their toxic behavior, just like any other game.

In the post you quoted I suggested a design that allows everyone to communicate freely and only takes action against those who repeatedly violate the TOS with their toxic whispers.

Why is that a problem? I fail to see a reason to protect toxic behavior.

Not allowing communication to people you're PvPing against is not freedom of communication.

Necrotech_Master

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

i highly doubt that game "lacks toxicity", just because you dont see it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen, i can almost guarantee that it does happen to some extent

like i said, theres many pvp games ive played and i just flat out dont pay attention to chats if they exist because im more paying attention to playing the game

ESO players get particularly salty ive noticed because nobody here seems to like dying in pvp, they must have never played an FPS pvp game where you blink and your dead (i particularly dislike enemy snipers in planetside 2)

the suggestion you make isnt any different than the current reporting system, you report include a screenshot of the chat, they review it to determine context or if its even actionable, and then choose to temp or perma ban

Amottica

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kappachi wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

if you cant deal with that either, then you should just avoid pvp, you cant make everyone follow that (and no, i do not participate in "toxic" actions like teabagging, or hate whispers)

dont force your desire for disabled chat on everyone

if whispers were disabled in cyro, how would you expect to have a whisper conversation with a friend outside of cyro while you are in cyro? theres a lot of problems with the idea

as i said, if you hate the salt that comes with pvp, turn off your chat, but dont force it on everyone else

Some people should and do get chat banned.

i mean obviously if they are taking it to a level of harassment or being extremely offensive then yes they should be

im more referring to single salty hate whispers

Single salty hate whisper players likely do not exist. Sure, they may send a player only one hate whisper as long as that player is smart enough not to reply. However, the reality is they are likely to do it again as they proved the fact they are that type of person.

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

It should not be possible to whisper people you are playing against in ToT, AvA, or BGs. There is no reason for it and it only serves a negative purpose.

i also heavily disagree with this

there are times ive been whispered stuff like "good fight" in cyro, not all whispers are salty hate

dont ruin the system for everyone

Fabulous, but far from a justification for a system that allows toxicity.

well, then all i say is good luck finding literally any pvp game at all that has 0 toxicity, its something you have to deal with unless you disable all forms of communication, then you only have to deal with "physical" stuff (emote taunting, teabagging, etc)

As someone who has played PvP in a great number of games, this is the only game I have often received toxic whispers because the person got upset that I killed them in PvP. I do feel sorry for them and tend to take the high ground and ignore them rather than feed them.

But, yes, there are games that prevent such actions. GW2 is the first that comes to mind. When a player gets killed by another player in WvW they have no means to whisper or mail that enemy player. Even on the team side (alliance), toxic talk is rare. Very rare compared to ESO.

So no luck is needed. I just prefer ESO's combat style and story telling more.

ive also played pvp in a lot of games, some of which dont even have a chat interface (or if it does i dont pay attention to it at all like i do for eso chat)

i find restricting chat like you suggest in gw2 is still terrible, what if you saw someone you know in the pvp and had a friendly fight with them? you couldnt even whisper them at all to talk about it, congratulate them, or friendly gloating, etc unless you were on a 3rd party application to message them (such as steam or discord)

i dont think eliminating chat is the answer, because it also again, ruins the communication for "bystanders", people who actually whisper "good fight", or conversations with a friend who happen to be an enemy player that may or may not even be pvp related

the user always has the choice to block communication (turn off the chat box, go offline, or if the person whispering them is being egregious, report them)

an example i know of is planetside 2, its a 3 way faction fight similar to eso, but its a first person shooter, it does have a chat system, but unlike eso, the "zone" chat is something all 3 factions can see (there are other channels specifically for your faction, or team), i have seen some toxicity in there, but generally speaking i barely pay attention to the chat because im you know, trying to shoot or not get shot at (since its a FPS and much much faster combat than eso)

You challenged me to find a game that lacked toxicity in PvP and I pretty much did.

It is not a good solution to put the onus on the player that is receiving the toxic whisper but suggesting the solution is they can turn off their chat box or go online as a solution as it is literally suggesting the innocent player should punish themselves by preventing anyone, including their alliance, from receiving or even sending communication while in PvP.

I have given this some thought and have developed what I think is a far superior solution. If Zenimax receives a report of toxic communication from a player and finds the communication was not appropriate and not solicited the player would receive a warning. For the second offense, they would receive something like a one-week or one-month chat ban. For the third offense, the chat ban would be permanent. Since toxic chat is not limited to PvP this would be account wide.

Sure, some might think it is heavy-handed but it is actually very rational and logical. If someone cannot figure this out after the second offense Zenimax should not have to keep spending time and money dealing with it.

This is an MMORPG, socializing is at the forefront of the genre. Removing ways to socialize make for a dull experience, i HATE the system in Guild Wars 2 how it obscures the names of the enemy players and such, as stated previously i enjoy sending and receiving good game messages or even talking further with someone I duel in ToT or PvP against in battlegrounds for instance to share tips or otherwise just banter. This whole idea of removing chat from PvP games which started in like digital card games like Hearthstone/Yugioh Master Duel/etc makes no sense to me when socializing is a huge part of gaming.

By the way, if you get toxic messages you should do your part and report the player, they will get increasingly longer suspensions until permabanned if they continue their toxic behavior, just like any other game.

In the post you quoted I suggested a design that allows everyone to communicate freely and only takes action against those who repeatedly violate the TOS with their toxic whispers.

Why is that a problem? I fail to see a reason to protect toxic behavior.

Not allowing communication to people you're PvPing against is not freedom of communication.

I do not follow. The specific suggestion of mine you quoted. freely permitted communication to people on all sides of a PvP match.

It merely restricted toxic behavior which Zenimax already restricts. I support the actions of Zenimax to eliminate harassment in the game.