The wayback machine, fun to look at the past

MidniteOwl1913

So I have noticed by not really thought about the fact that there are over 5000 pages of General Discussion post. Today I decided to take a look. The oldest I could find was from May 2014. First off I noticed there were no pinned posts, second that complaints about bots are apparently as old as TESO. Still I found it interesting.

Here's a screen shot of the post headlines,

Reverb

I remember that Take Flight bug that would freeze you in place. That sucked.

I much prefer the bug that replaced it where but drained your ultimate and the wings popped out but you never actually leapt and you could run around with unfurled wings until you ported or died.

zaria

My favorite bug that that you could play as an pet. Think you previewed an crown crate pet, switched to an normal crown store pet and left you would be that pet like you are in the preview, you could run around and use skills. It was only visible for you not other but it was fun.

MidniteOwl1913

zaria wrote: »

My favorite bug that that you could play as an pet. Think you previewed an crown crate pet, switched to an normal crown store pet and left you would be that pet like you are in the preview, you could run around and use skills. It was only visible for you not other but it was fun.

Wow that sounds like a lot of fun! I wish I'd been around then.

ApoAlaia

18 threads, 5 of them locked.

Yep, it checks out

zaria

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

My favorite bug that that you could play as an pet. Think you previewed an crown crate pet, switched to an normal crown store pet and left you would be that pet like you are in the preview, you could run around and use skills. It was only visible for you not other but it was fun.

Wow that sounds like a lot of fun! I wish I'd been around then.

Its was fun, transformations is, like how you play as clockwork mice in the Frostvault dungeon.
Once did it as an guild run with voice chat and one had never done it before, none spoiled it and it was an surprise.
its an quest is Clockwork city there you are an clockwork mice, here you can see other players mice if they also do the quest who is fun. You also play as an monkey in an Coldharbor quest with an Khajiit and a Dunmer.

TybaltKaine

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

Oof. And it's dominating replies and views.

EDIT: That thread was not fun to look through at all.

ApoAlaia

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

Oof. And it's dominating replies and views.

EDIT: That thread was not fun to look through at all.

Blimey.

I'm surprised that the thread wasn't closed.

Some hot takes in there...

Lumenn

Perhaps its my browser or a temporary glitch, I could push "last" yesterday and browse the threads, but today it shows " no discussions"

Edit: nm. Last page(5626) is blank, but going "full site rather than mobile allowed me to see pg 5625.

Danikat

I thought "Can I post here?" might be someone in the same situation I was, but apparently not. I played the ESO betas but didn't buy the game right away so I was surprised to find I could still post on the forum after release. My access only got stopped about 6 months later when I replied to a topic to say I could still post even though I didn't own the game. (Then got reinstated a few months after that when I did buy it.)

ApoAlaia wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

Oof. And it's dominating replies and views.

EDIT: That thread was not fun to look through at all.

Blimey.

I'm surprised that the thread wasn't closed.

Some hot takes in there...

There was an even stranger topic a few years ago where someone suggested that female player characters shouldn't be able to fight (I think they were willing to allow ranged healing). They tried to dress it up in the usual outdated assumptions about life in medieval times, but mostly it came down to an assumption that all ESO players are men and if they make a female character it's to have a fantasy girlfriend and they'd be upset seeing her hurt and uncomfortable seeing her defend herself so they need to stay out of combat entirely.

I think that one did get deleted though.

Redguards_Revenge

One time a whole group of rich guilds bought out rawl'kha to protest the games economy...unfortunately what? 3 years later it's as over the top and about to hit that point.....that point where it's going to be el fir neu pleyrs tu bi ritain'd.

mocap

I remember a time when there was no DPS rotation, players just spammed few skills and that was it.
Also 1k DPS was pretty good value.

Transmute station, as well as gear stickerbook mechanics, appeared much later, so players had to farm Maelstrom Arena (and not normal - only veteran!) countless times to get inferno staff, preferably with perfect trait (i think it was Infused).

And, ofcuz, classic no dungeon finder - players were forced to literally stand near the physical entrance to the dungeon and wait for someone to form a group.

Overall - ESO from 2014-2016 was a luteous HELL compared to what it is now.

zaria

Danikat wrote: »

There was an even stranger topic a few years ago where someone suggested that female player characters shouldn't be able to fight (I think they were willing to allow ranged healing). They tried to dress it up in the usual outdated assumptions about life in medieval times, but mostly it came down to an assumption that all ESO players are men and if they make a female character it's to have a fantasy girlfriend and they'd be upset seeing her hurt and uncomfortable seeing her defend herself so they need to stay out of combat entirely.

I think that one did get deleted though.

Now for medieval times and Europe female warriors was very rare, magical healing was rarer 😺
Other cultures had other rules we found a viking warrior burial of a lady.
On the other hand magic changes stuff as much as lightweight automatic weapons did here.
Grabs tail: the elder scrolls are not set in medieval Europe, here humans are an minority.
More so in AD who this one see as an benefit. its not an game who try to pretend to be realistic.

TybaltKaine

Since we are kind of going into that territory, I will say here what I wish I was on the forums to say 9 years ago.

The idea that female warriors are new to Elder Scrolls is laughable at best and willfully dishonest at worst.

In Skyrim the very first member of the Blades you meet is Delphine in Riverwood

In Oblivion The very first voice you hear and the first casualty is Captain Renault, leader of the Emperors Protection detail and member of the Blades

In Morrowind The very first member of the Blades you can meet is Elone, a Redguard Scout who directs you to Caius Cosades

In Daggerfall The very first member of the Blades you meet is Lady Brisienna, who sends you the letter to start the main quest after the tutorial dungeon

I'm sensing a theme here, but I can't quite put my finger on it.

For those who don't know, The Blades are the protectors of the Emperor, and are widely considered to be some of the best warriors in the Empire

The fact that you meet female members of the Blades first in four of the five main series games establishes a clear intent on the role of women in the Elder Scrolls universe.

Glad I could get that off my chest.

ApoAlaia

Danikat wrote: »

I thought "Can I post here?" might be someone in the same situation I was, but apparently not. I played the ESO betas but didn't buy the game right away so I was surprised to find I could still post on the forum after release. My access only got stopped about 6 months later when I replied to a topic to say I could still post even though I didn't own the game. (Then got reinstated a few months after that when I did buy it.)

ApoAlaia wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

Oof. And it's dominating replies and views.

EDIT: That thread was not fun to look through at all.

Blimey.

I'm surprised that the thread wasn't closed.

Some hot takes in there...

There was an even stranger topic a few years ago where someone suggested that female player characters shouldn't be able to fight (I think they were willing to allow ranged healing). They tried to dress it up in the usual outdated assumptions about life in medieval times, but mostly it came down to an assumption that all ESO players are men and if they make a female character it's to have a fantasy girlfriend and they'd be upset seeing her hurt and uncomfortable seeing her defend herself so they need to stay out of combat entirely.

I think that one did get deleted though.

Not that people who hold those beliefs are very likely to welcome having them challenged but if they did they may want to consider that the moment you introduce force multipliers, the most humble yet most widely adopted having been the spear in its various incarnations, all bets are off.

Scholars and historians have proposed a number of possible reasons - which are not necessarily mutually exclusive - to explain the apparent scarcity of female combatants throughout history (which I think discussing them is beyond the scope of this forum) but whether they possessed the ability to effectively use a shield and a spear in a battle formation doesn't seem to be one of them.

Nestor

I have been around since the earliest days. Only a few devs joined before me.

My observation, the more the game changes, the more the forums stay the same.

Syldras

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

What baffles me most is that people with that mindset actually play TES games, which have, for a longer time already, always featured strong female npcs. Same goes for the homophobes, btw, it always strikes me as weird how they choose a game where LGBT+ characters are so common and completely normal to lore, but then they come here to the forums to complain.

El_Borracho

Hollow threats to leave the game for good, since 2014. An ESO tradition unlike any other.

Marcus684

The bots and gold sellers in the early days were out of control. Every delve boss that dropped good loot had its spawn point camped by hordes of bots, making it hard for human players to get a shot in and complete the quest and get a good drop. Zone chat was constantly clogged with gold seller spam (the same website being spammed today) that overran the chat window, making it all but imposible to right click the spammer's name and report/block them.

Overall I think ZOS has done pretty well in controlling bots and spammers since those first weeks, at least on PC. It sounds like bots are still bad on console.

Ugrak

Nirn is not Earth. It is best to keep reality and fantasy separate. Viewing fragments of the past through the lens of the present is a pitfall. Fantasy on the other hand usually does need to be projected through the lens of the culture it is made for appealing to.

How gender roles have played out in real life is likely down to a bunch of convoluted feedback loops between stuff like biology, environment, evolutionary psychology, culture, technology, power/inequality, etc. In our understanding of history it seems to have trended more in one direction than the other, but most people on Earth were never warriors, regardless of gender. Pleb life.

It would lead to more interesting worldbuilding if one were to use the kinds of variables our trajectory emerged from; then tweak a few and see what alternative paths it could lead down (as opposed to emulating history and inserting modern sentiments).

We, for example came out "WEIRD—Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic"., according to professor Joe Henrich & co's description. https://weirdpeople.fas.harvard.edu/qa-weird Imagine what other strange trajectories could be taken? (and within the lore of the elder scrolls nontheless).

Lumenn

If playing video games has taught me one thing, it's that everything can be dangerous, even chickens.....

kargen27

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

One time a whole group of rich guilds bought out rawl'kha to protest the games economy...unfortunately what? 3 years later it's as over the top and about to hit that point.....that point where it's going to be el fir neu pleyrs tu bi ritain'd.

I believe you are thinking of the time when they bought all the spots in Rawl'kha, lied about the cost to do so and tried to claim guild leaders were defrauding their members out of millions in gold. The guy that instigated the stunt was shown to be a liar and his claims debunked. It was a memorable stunt though.

Syldras

Ugrak wrote: »

emulating history and inserting modern sentiments

Some of these "modern sentiments" aren't even modern. Yes, in this case, they stem from the interest to appeal to today's audiences, to maximize the commercial success by attracting as many customers as possible. But calling women using weapons (as fighters or hunters) or even LGBT themes "modern" is, well, not quite correct.

ArchMikem

Syldras wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

What baffles me most is that people with that mindset actually play TES games, which have, for a longer time already, always featured strong female npcs. Same goes for the homophobes, btw, it always strikes me as weird how they choose a game where LGBT+ characters are so common and completely normal to lore, but then they come here to the forums to complain.

This made me think of Jeanne d'Arc and how much of a strong Female she was in History. Then I read about her life, and how the English sentenced her to death by burning at the stake at just 19, for crimes including "blaspheming by wearing men's clothes". 600 years later there's still people who think Women in that setting should stick to certain societal roles.

Lumenn

ArchMikem wrote: »

Syldras wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

What baffles me most is that people with that mindset actually play TES games, which have, for a longer time already, always featured strong female npcs. Same goes for the homophobes, btw, it always strikes me as weird how they choose a game where LGBT+ characters are so common and completely normal to lore, but then they come here to the forums to complain.

This made me think of Jeanne d'Arc and how much of a strong Female she was in History. Then I read about her life, and how the English sentenced her to death by burning at the stake at just 19, for crimes including "blaspheming by wearing men's clothes". 600 years later there's still people who think Women in that setting should stick to certain societal roles.

The English weren't too fond of one of my grans' heros either, Gráinne O'Malley.

ArchangelIsraphel

TybaltKaine wrote: »

"Women and their role in ESO? Too many fighters?"

Oof. And it's dominating replies and views.

EDIT: That thread was not fun to look through at all.

I think I lost a few braincells reading through the first few posts of that thread. Ugh.

Syldras

ArchMikem wrote: »

This made me think of Jeanne d'Arc and how much of a strong Female she was in History.

Not only Jeanne d'Arc. There are lot of burials of women with weapons - more than just a few rare exceptions. There are written records about female warriors in many parts of the world. There were female samurai. There were female pirates. We today also know that the old assumption that women stayed at home while men went to hunt is wrong (everyone capable participated, regardless of gender). This misconception was influenced by what was seen as appropriate back then when these theories were formed - fighting women were just seen as something impossible, unbelievable. And if we then also include myths and folklore, there are masses of fighting women, often positive figures. There's even a whole bunch of war goddesses.

Were female fighters less common than male ones? Yes. Before industrialization (and modern contraceptives) almost every woman bore children, and both pregnancy as well as raising a small child are exhausting and take a lot of time. A disadvantage men didn't have. Also, yes, there was discrimination against women. But still, female fighters existed. It's proven that women are able to fight, as well as to lead whole groups of fighters. The presumption that women were naturally unable to do that is disproved.

Lumenn

Syldras wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

This made me think of Jeanne d'Arc and how much of a strong Female she was in History.

And if we then also include myths and folklore, there are masses of fighting women, often positive figures. There's even a whole bunch of war goddesses.

I instantly thought of someone trying to tell The Morrígan to stay at home, have babies, and make a sandwich. /Shudder. Or any of the Tuath Dé for that matter.

zaria

Marcus684 wrote: »

The bots and gold sellers in the early days were out of control. Every delve boss that dropped good loot had its spawn point camped by hordes of bots, making it hard for human players to get a shot in and complete the quest and get a good drop. Zone chat was constantly clogged with gold seller spam (the same website being spammed today) that overran the chat window, making it all but imposible to right click the spammer's name and report/block them.

Overall I think ZOS has done pretty well in controlling bots and spammers since those first weeks, at least on PC. It sounds like bots are still bad on console.

Yes remember that one, the first quest in coldharbor zone quest line does not reward gold.
Why? gold farmer would run bot armies who traveled to player in hollow city do the quest get the gold and hand it over to the player and then be deleted. First solution was to remove the gold reward.
Second was to limit number of characters you can delete in a day.

Then one day they was all gone, years since I seen bots in ESO and they looked like normal players doing afk leveling having crown pets and similar. This is PC-EU, as I understand console has an bot problem.

zaria

mocap wrote: »

I remember a time when there was no DPS rotation, players just spammed few skills and that was it.
Also 1k DPS was pretty good value.

Transmute station, as well as gear stickerbook mechanics, appeared much later, so players had to farm Maelstrom Arena (and not normal - only veteran!) countless times to get inferno staff, preferably with perfect trait (i think it was Infused).

And, ofcuz, classic no dungeon finder - players were forced to literally stand near the physical entrance to the dungeon and wait for someone to form a group.

Overall - ESO from 2014-2016 was a luteous HELL compared to what it is now.

DPS and health was increased by 10 during the first year so 1K dps=10Kdps. We still managed AA trial, only mode was vet.

Sharpened was the only weapon trait who mattered at least from Morrowind to transmute.

Carcamongus

Yes, I know, I know, you folks warned me, but my curiosity was hard to resist. I read that thread about women on ESO. The game was much messier back in 2014, and gold sellers and bots were rampant, but someone managed to find fault at the proportion of female quest givers or women in positions of power. I felt sorry for the poor mod who was overseeing that thread, especially because it was a woman.

Those braincells I lost, I'm never getting them back.