Belharzas Band unusable

Vaqual

I can't keep lying to myself any longer. The horn animation looks like a pair of bunny ears. My character looks ridiculous whenever I "accidentally" chain two light attacks. Can you please just remove the stupid horns? Or replace them with something less dumb looking? Anyway the bull animation isn't great either. The aesthetics are really holding this item back.

merpins

Personally, I think the item is holding this item back. It got changed and nerfed so many times on release, it went from "this looks neat" to "this looks bad."

It's a fun item to be sure. But with LA nerfs and the item requiring consecutive light attacks, it's not great. I think it could use some buffs along with that there animation change, though I find the animation change unnecessary until they fix Jabs.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

The LA damage needs to be increased by 3-4x for this item to be anywhere near viable. Also, I like the horns.

IncultaWolf

I'd love to see this buffed now that empower was changed a while back, I actually use to use this mythic with the bloodmoon set, and grisly gourmet on a werewolf in pve, it was decently strong, but ever since they nerfed empower to no longer buff light attacks, and then they nerfed bloodmoon on top of that change, it became useless.

notyuu

Literally 1 itty bitty change would make the band go from bland junk to niche but useful, what would that change be you might ask yourself? simple...

Belharza's Band: Increase the damage of your Light Attacks by 900. When you deal damage with consecutive melee Light Attacks, gain a stack of Belharza's Temper for seconds, up to 5 stacks max. At 5 stacks, consume Belharza's Temper and after 1 second, deal 1471 Physical Damage to enemies in a line and stun them for 3 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds and scales off the higher of your Weapon or Spell Damage.

That's literally all they would need to do to give the mythic some actualy use.

Vaqual

:'( people hate staying on topic

Vaqual

I was serious tho when I made that thread, the ugly horns are really keeping me from using that mythic. They should find a way to hide unwanted animations. So many animations are really detrimental and just visual clutter. Maybe something like an inventory sheet where all gear-related effects are listed with checkboxes, so that you can "unequip" just the effects. At least for yourself. I get that most effects are supposed to work as tells, but if they are so hideous that you can't enjoy playing anymore with them on that is also missing the mark.

Edit: I think the item is absolutey OK in terms of power, I personally do not need another OP mythic.

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

The LA damage needs to be increased by 3-4x for this item to be anywhere near viable. Also, I like the horns.

That would be singlehandedly more damage than savage werewolf in its prime...

Lozeenge

belharza is kinda lame to me because the effect isn't very unique unlike most other mythics.

even if you remove the consecutive LA proc, which is the one thing that's actually holding it back, the effect isn't too different from your typical 5-piece or monster set in terms of power. maybe the stun would have application in PvP but Kjalnar's Nightmare does basically the same thing but single target and also deals more burst damage if they're under CC immunity. i think it also stacks faster.

it's very boring for a mythic item!

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

(removed due to misunderstanding about the Savage Werewolf DoT tick)

Vaqual

5 procs per second? It ticked twice, from the existing bleed + the new application, but it didn't stack multiple instances. This math is just made up. Besides, regardless of how strong other sets are, you must see how a 1-piece set giving 2700 per hit is utter nonesense. Anyway, this thread was meant to be about the cosmetics.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Vaqual wrote: »

5 procs per second? It ticked twice, from the existing bleed + the new application, but it didn't stack multiple instances. This math is just made up.

The math wasn't made up. I just forgot how the DoT tick worked. It's been a few years.

2 ticks per second on Savage Werewolf in its prime is still more damage than if you buffed Belharza's Band by 1800 (900 -> 2700). This is super easy to calculate. Savage Werewolf has a coefficient of 0.2325 and ticks twice per second, or 0.465 per second. 2700 / 0.465 = 5806 wd/sd. In other words, if you have more than 5806 wd/sd then pre-U35 Savage Werewolf outperforms a hypothetical 2700 damage Belharza's Band.

Vaqual wrote: »

Besides, regardless of how strong other sets are, you must see how a 1-piece set giving 2700 per hit is utter nonesense.

Not really. An extra 1800 base damage on your light attacks is not overpowered. You might get 5-10% more dps but at what opportunity cost of using another mythic? You're way overestimating how much 2700 base damage on a light attack does on a 6m dummy parse or how much extra offensive pressure it would apply in PvP.

0.05 MaxStat + 0.525 MaxPower
1800 / 0.525 = 3428 extra wd/sd for light attacks only

The only scenario where this makes a difference is if you're bash weaving light attacks since bash bypasses the consecutive light attack check on Belharza's Band. You should never do this anyways since you're leaving damage on the table by not using a spammable. Additionally, you can't light attack while block casting so Belharza's Band is nearly useless in PvP.

Vaqual wrote: »

Anyway, this thread was meant to be about the cosmetics.

I do see the similarity with rabbit ears.

Cadbury

I'm not a fan of how it looks either, but I hesitate to call it "unusable".

Necrotech_Master

ive never actually bothered using this mythic because the proc condition requiring 5 consecutive light attack without anything in between seems ridiculous, and the added bonus dmg is too low to make use of light attack spam only

there are far better options too that just benefit a weaving build

if they changed the proc condition to require fewer light attack, or the "consecutive" light attack only counted light and heavy attack and not skill use, then i could see maybe making it work, but as it stands now it just isnt very good

kojou

I personally don't mind the animation. I just wish it did something that made it worth wearing.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the proc condition requiring 5 consecutive light attack without anything in between seems ridiculous

Belharza's Band was intended to be used by bash builds since bash doesn't reset consecutive light attacks. It was released during the same patch as Deadlands Demolisher. You can Bash > Bash > Light Attack (repeat) and get to 5 stacks.

The damage is too low and not worth using over Bash > Bash > Light Attack > Power Slam.

Bash weaving light attacks will never be competitive damage unless they revert the 1000 damage nerf to Deadly Bash.

They also need to fix the bug where bash critical chance is not hybridized and only scales with weapon critical. It's bad.

Urzigurumash

Vaqual wrote: »

:'( people hate staying on topic

You'd prefer 0 replies? Your subject line suggests a discussion of its mechanics

Vaqual

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

:'( people hate staying on topic

You'd prefer 0 replies? Your subject line suggests a discussion of its mechanics

I think that is symptomatic of these forums, that people don't even bother to read most of the stuff properly, which ends up in long threads of non-constructive back and forth of the same 3-4 opinions in many threads, which in turn disincentives reading even more.

I chose a title that suggests a severe issue for this minor/petty topic to attract attention and start off the thread in a lighthearted/humorous tone, granted people are willing to read anything that comes after the title.

No, I don't want 0 replies. I have an issue with how some cosmetic effects are harming the experience in game (personal opinion) and I wanted to talk about this with other people, to see if there are like-minded players and to possibly grab the devs attention.

Vaqual

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

5 procs per second? It ticked twice, from the existing bleed + the new application, but it didn't stack multiple instances. This math is just made up.

The math wasn't made up. I just forgot how the DoT tick worked. It's been a few years.

2 ticks per second on Savage Werewolf in its prime is still more damage than if you buffed Belharza's Band by 1800 (900 -> 2700). This is super easy to calculate. Savage Werewolf has a coefficient of 0.2325 and ticks twice per second, or 0.465 per second. 2700 / 0.465 = 5806 wd/sd. In other words, if you have more than 5806 wd/sd then pre-U35 Savage Werewolf outperforms a hypothetical 2700 damage Belharza's Band.

Vaqual wrote: »

Besides, regardless of how strong other sets are, you must see how a 1-piece set giving 2700 per hit is utter nonesense.

Not really. An extra 1800 base damage on your light attacks is not overpowered. You might get 5-10% more dps but at what opportunity cost of using another mythic? You're way overestimating how much 2700 base damage on a light attack does on a 6m dummy parse or how much extra offensive pressure it would apply in PvP.

0.05 MaxStat + 0.525 MaxPower
1800 / 0.525 = 3428 extra wd/sd for light attacks only

The only scenario where this makes a difference is if you're bash weaving light attacks since bash bypasses the consecutive light attack check on Belharza's Band. You should never do this anyways since you're leaving damage on the table by not using a spammable. Additionally, you can't light attack while block casting so Belharza's Band is nearly useless in PvP.

Vaqual wrote: »

Anyway, this thread was meant to be about the cosmetics.

I do see the similarity with rabbit ears.

Yes, but the numbers are still in the same ballpark. Calculating decimals for an arbitrary set off WD is not proving any point more or less than rounded estimates. The fact that a 1-piece set comes close to a 5-piece (in this hypothetical scenario) that was considered OP and problematic must tell you that this will also be OP. I see how this is not super interesting for parsing, but the damage you suggest would even now exceed the way of fire dps, and I do not think that this is what the game needs right now. I agree that there might be room for buffs to the LA damage, which is the attractive component of the item, but that will always be weighed against the proc, which is admittedly useless.

Thanks for noticing the bunny ears tho.

Bashev

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the proc condition requiring 5 consecutive light attack without anything in between seems ridiculous

Belharza's Band was intended to be used by bash builds since bash doesn't reset consecutive light attacks. It was released during the same patch as Deadlands Demolisher. You can Bash > Bash > Light Attack (repeat) and get to 5 stacks.

The damage is too low and not worth using over Bash > Bash > Light Attack > Power Slam.

Bash weaving light attacks will never be competitive damage unless they revert the 1000 damage nerf to Deadly Bash.

They also need to fix the bug where bash critical chance is not hybridized and only scales with weapon critical. It's bad.

Quite interesting. If you really think that this was intended for a bash build, then the proc damage should scale with resistances at least. Maybe then it could be an interesting option.

Urzigurumash

Vaqual wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

:'( people hate staying on topic

You'd prefer 0 replies? Your subject line suggests a discussion of its mechanics

I think that is symptomatic of these forums, that people don't even bother to read most of the stuff properly, which ends up in long threads of non-constructive back and forth of the same 3-4 opinions in many threads, which in turn disincentives reading even more.

I chose a title that suggests a severe issue for this minor/petty topic to attract attention and start off the thread in a lighthearted/humorous tone, granted people are willing to read anything that comes after the title.

No, I don't want 0 replies. I have an issue with how some cosmetic effects are harming the experience in game (personal opinion) and I wanted to talk about this with other people, to see if there are like-minded players and to possibly grab the devs attention.

Well you're not wrong, this forum is mostly us repeatedly rambling about niche subjects and pet grievances in convoluted walls of text, again and again, on and on, regardless of the intent of the thread, obscuring any meaning and ruining any chance of a Dev coming away with a clear sense of feedback.

But in my reply I was just dreaming about how nice it would've been if people had decided to instead discuss mechanics in a very similar thread of mine for an item which, unlike Belharza's, never attracted enough people to even notice how poor its mechanics were. Shame because cosmetically it's likely the single most attractive item of all. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/614538/glorgoloch-is-a-bit-too-clamorous

Vaqual

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Vaqual wrote: »

:'( people hate staying on topic

You'd prefer 0 replies? Your subject line suggests a discussion of its mechanics

I think that is symptomatic of these forums, that people don't even bother to read most of the stuff properly, which ends up in long threads of non-constructive back and forth of the same 3-4 opinions in many threads, which in turn disincentives reading even more.

I chose a title that suggests a severe issue for this minor/petty topic to attract attention and start off the thread in a lighthearted/humorous tone, granted people are willing to read anything that comes after the title.

No, I don't want 0 replies. I have an issue with how some cosmetic effects are harming the experience in game (personal opinion) and I wanted to talk about this with other people, to see if there are like-minded players and to possibly grab the devs attention.

Well you're not wrong, this forum is mostly us repeatedly rambling about niche subjects and pet grievances in convoluted walls of text, again and again, on and on, regardless of the intent of the thread, obscuring any meaning and ruining any chance of a Dev coming away with a clear sense of feedback.

But in my reply I was just dreaming about how nice it would've been if people had decided to instead discuss mechanics in a very similar thread of mine for an item which, unlike Belharza's, never attracted enough people to even notice how poor its mechanics were. Shame because cosmetically it's likely the single most attractive item of all. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/614538/glorgoloch-is-a-bit-too-clamorous

Thank you for sharing. I feel your pain and I wish I had the power to help you beyond leaving an "Insightful" in your thread.

Necrotech_Master

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

the proc condition requiring 5 consecutive light attack without anything in between seems ridiculous

Belharza's Band was intended to be used by bash builds since bash doesn't reset consecutive light attacks. It was released during the same patch as Deadlands Demolisher. You can Bash > Bash > Light Attack (repeat) and get to 5 stacks.

The damage is too low and not worth using over Bash > Bash > Light Attack > Power Slam.

Bash weaving light attacks will never be competitive damage unless they revert the 1000 damage nerf to Deadly Bash.

They also need to fix the bug where bash critical chance is not hybridized and only scales with weapon critical. It's bad.

interesting lol, i had never used it so was not aware that bashes did not break the light attack streak