Time to ditch crown crates completely?

tincanman

No idea how much of crown crate sales are via in-game gold but, given the amount of attention being given it, I'd expect it is signifcant.

But that system of trade has been fubared for months now. It looks like the temporary fix is not intended as a solution for that approach either.

Maybe it's time, rather than fumble around for whatever anti-cheat system that's taking ages to implement to just ditch crown crates altogether and shift their contents into the store?

I don't buy crates in any form but can see the biggest issue most players have with them is their arguable reliance on gambling and would expect most of us would prefer a direct sale/purchase in the store anyway. The bean-counters might be a bit perturbed but good PR and slight adjustment in prices might normalise sales somewhat.

Danikat

I never buy crates and would prefer it if the items were sold in the store directly, but I don't think it'll happen. Crates existed for years before gifting was implemented and were presumably profitable. I'm sure the inability to gift them has reduced the revenue a bit, but I doubt it's anywhere near enough to make ZOS consider giving up on them.

Also from what I've heard a lot of the people who sell crowns are ESO+ subscribers who want the other benefits but don't use all their crowns, I don't think a lot of people were buying large amounts of crowns to sell.

TaSheen

Sounds good in theory. However, after having been around here for years now, what I think would happen is that the moving of items to the store would more than double the price structure.

I wouldn't consider that a win for anyone but ZOS. I don't buy crates, but there's not much in them OR the store that I really want (in fact, really nothing), so I'd be "among the missing" as a buyer....

Vulkunne

tincanman wrote: »

No idea how much of crown crate sales are via in-game gold but, given the amount of attention being given it, I'd expect it is signifcant.

But that system of trade has been fubared for months now. It looks like the temporary fix is not intended as a solution for that approach either.

Maybe it's time, rather than fumble around for whatever anti-cheat system that's taking ages to implement to just ditch crown crates altogether and shift their contents into the store?

I don't buy crates in any form but can see the biggest issue most players have with them is their arguable reliance on gambling and would expect most of us would prefer a direct sale/purchase in the store anyway. The bean-counters might be a bit perturbed but good PR and slight adjustment in prices might normalise sales somewhat.

I dunno about ditching them totally, however as I was saying to someone else, this seems like a good time now for pause and reflection. Just take things slow, remember to breathe and think about any changes that you might need to make.

Including eso, but not limited to it, I'm already seeing quite a few things that I need to work on, even if its not really what I want to do.

Eliza Godhater

I’d be happier with crates being eliminated. Hate the gambling aspect of the whole thing as my rng is sad.
Move that stuff to the crown store like it was before crates.

shadyjane62

Yes. Gamble boxes are just that.

wilykcat

I never purchase loot boxes in any game. The loot boxes are not required in order to play.

Loot boxes are also a very quick and easy way to make money for most online games (except for ones that don't have a loot box system) and it's a marketing gimmick.

tincanman

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Yes. Gamble boxes are just that.

This is mainly why I avoid them.

merpins

It's been time to shift away from crown crates since November 29, 2016 (the date they were announced).

Why doesn't the base game have many cosmetics? Because most of them go to crown crates. Though a lack of crown crates won't guarantee more stuff in the base game, it's a step in the right direction for a more player friendly and ethical game experience. I've gone over possible solutions and replacements when it comes to crown crates, but it's not likely anything will be done until a major government bans all gambling type experiences for online games.

chessalavakia_ESO

tincanman wrote: »

No idea how much of crown crate sales are via in-game gold but, given the amount of attention being given it, I'd expect it is signifcant.

But that system of trade has been fubared for months now. It looks like the temporary fix is not intended as a solution for that approach either.

Maybe it's time, rather than fumble around for whatever anti-cheat system that's taking ages to implement to just ditch crown crates altogether and shift their contents into the store?

I don't buy crates in any form but can see the biggest issue most players have with them is their arguable reliance on gambling and would expect most of us would prefer a direct sale/purchase in the store anyway. The bean-counters might be a bit perturbed but good PR and slight adjustment in prices might normalise sales somewhat.

My impression is that it gets lots of complaints for being down because the people it impacts are vocal not that it actually impacts that many people.

Generally, the top portions of games and players that are on the cheap side tend to be more vocal on forums. The people buying Crown Crates for gold would be both.

I occasionally buy Crowns for gold and the price I've paid has generally trended upwards. If the inability to sell the crates was having a significant impact, I think that the Crown price would have dropped. Then again, I buy primarily off of zone chat and I believe most of the people buying Crates for gold use other methods.

spartaxoxo

I see no reason not being able to gift them should eliminate my ability to purchase an item that I want to purchase. Some of us enjoy them.

BlueViolet

I wouldn't miss them.

However, yesterday I was looking at the wild hunt crates in the store. I ignored crates when they were first released because I don't like them, but looking at the contents of the Wild Hunt compared to the latest crates, there is so much more included in the WH crates.
The contents of crates appear to have been getting less and less over time. Also have some of the included items been moved up a tier? Things like mementos or costumes seem to have achieved legendary status now rather than epic.

meekmiko

BlueViolet wrote: »

I wouldn't miss them.

However, yesterday I was looking at the wild hunt crates in the store. I ignored crates when they were first released because I don't like them, but looking at the contents of the Wild Hunt compared to the latest crates, there is so much more included in the WH crates.
The contents of crates appear to have been getting less and less over time. Also have some of the included items been moved up a tier? Things like mementos or costumes seem to have achieved legendary status now rather than epic.

Don't forget that costumes have also been steadily making their way into the Apex tier.

BlueViolet

meekmiko wrote: »

Don't forget that costumes have also been steadily making their way into the Apex tier.

Wow.
I hadn't noticed that, but jeez. That's bad.

SeaGtGruff

Danikat wrote: »

I never buy crates and would prefer it if the items were sold in the store directly,

Agreed.

Although even if they were available in the Crown Store for Crowns instead of Crown Gems, I most likely still wouldn't buy them-- which is not to say that I don't think they're any good, but simply that I prefer to spend my Crowns on DLC collector bundles and Crown-Store-only houses.

I do purchase non-combat pets and mounts, but I spend Crown Gems (from free Crown Crates) and Seals of Endeavor on those things.

Edit: Just to be clear, I'm not agreeing with the suggestion to remove Crown Crates, but with the statement about never buying Crown Crates. (Well, I did gift event tickets to someone once, which resulted in receiving Crown Crates from ZOS, so that was sorta-kinda like buying Crown Crates.) I'm not necessarily in favor of doing away with Crown Crates, because I've been able to get a lot of non-combat pets, and even an occasional mount, with the Crown Gems I've accumulated from free Crown Crates from Twitch drops. If there were no Crown Crates, I would not have been able to acquire all of those "free" purchases, since I don't spend Crowns on those types of things. Well, I probably could have purchased some of them "for free" with my Seals of Endeavor, but a lot of them predate the introduction of endeavors.

francesinhalover

With all the respect, i fully disagree.
Removing crates would be an awfull idea.
Many players can't afford crownstore items, but are able to afford crown crate items via twitch or endeavor farm.
This whole idea would ruin the game for many and i see no need for that.
(Especially with gifting disabled and gold to crown trades not being safe unfurtunaly)

Overwatch is apparently on a player decline also because of removing crates and selling skins at expensive prices.

Please don't do something like this. Crates are fine.

And yes i also fully disagree with battlepass systems on eso.

TinyDragon

chessalavakia_ESO wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

No idea how much of crown crate sales are via in-game gold but, given the amount of attention being given it, I'd expect it is signifcant.

But that system of trade has been fubared for months now. It looks like the temporary fix is not intended as a solution for that approach either.

Maybe it's time, rather than fumble around for whatever anti-cheat system that's taking ages to implement to just ditch crown crates altogether and shift their contents into the store?

I don't buy crates in any form but can see the biggest issue most players have with them is their arguable reliance on gambling and would expect most of us would prefer a direct sale/purchase in the store anyway. The bean-counters might be a bit perturbed but good PR and slight adjustment in prices might normalise sales somewhat.

My impression is that it gets lots of complaints for being down because the people it impacts are vocal not that it actually impacts that many people.

Generally, the top portions of games and players that are on the cheap side tend to be more vocal on forums. The people buying Crown Crates for gold would be both.

I occasionally buy Crowns for gold and the price I've paid has generally trended upwards. If the inability to sell the crates was having a significant impact, I think that the Crown price would have dropped. Then again, I buy primarily off of zone chat and I believe most of the people buying Crates for gold use other methods.

Crowns have dropped to below 1000:1 for the first time in literal years.

TCE won't sell more than one 5000 crown pack per player, reset quarterly, because they can't handle the demand.

I think it's quite popular.

Uvi_AUT

They should have been been a long time ago, since they are illegal gambling. They are starting to become illegal in one country after another.
My countries (Austria)s Anti-Gamblinglaws already forbid them. But its still a grey area and doesnt get enforced unfortunately.

endgamesmug

I havent bought any for maybe 5 years, my sister worked for a problem gambling foundation at one stage years ago - i feel like i became a little more educated after that point and find it in all its forms pretty abhorrent.

menedhyn

If I walk into a bookshop to buy a newly released novel, I can check the price beforehand and consider if it is worth the money before buying it. They often are, but I still get to decide. Simple, fair and transparent. I know exactly what I am getting in exchange for my cash.

If I walk into another bookshop and see that there is a chance I could get the book I want from a fancy looking cardboard ‘box’, but no guarantee I will, and I could end up with loads of cheap bookmarks, novelty pencils or other book-related merchandise instead, and I will need to keep buying more fancy ‘boxes’ in the hope I get the book I really want… but you may also end up with another really fancy, sparkly, limited edition book I will never ever read… you’re damn right I’m walking out and spending my money elsewhere.

Crown crates are here to stay, and my money is spent at the first bookshop. Simple.

Snamyap

I'm afraid the only alternative when it comes to revenue for ZOS is mandatory monthly fee. And while I only play with ESO+ (and detest gamble boxes) I don't think that would go down well and probably would cause an exodus of players.

FriedEggSandwich

I don't like crown crates. I spend too much money on them and then get annoyed with myself. It's weird cos I have never gambled irl (lottery, slot machines etc). I defo have a weakness for them though, and I don't know why cos my rng is bad. In their defence though (if this even is a defence), it means I have an inventory of collectibles I would probably never have spent money on. How is that a defence? I hear you cry. Well, I like having these collectibles, some of them are pretty unique, and I've come to appreciate them since being forced to own them through crown crates. So, money wastage aside, crown crates have turned me into much more of a collector than I would've ever been without them.

spartaxoxo

I do think games should make it so that you have to state your 18 before you can open or buy them. But, gambling is legal where I live. There should also maybe be some mild checks in place to limit addictive behavior like cutoffs on how many you can buy per month, similar to how bars will cut you off from drinking too much.

But other than that, many adults are perfectly capable of enjoying them responsibly and should be allowed to do so.

Pepegrillos

Rarely will a company let go of a chance to make millions by exploiting people's psychological vulnerabilities.

danno8

francesinhalover wrote: »

With all the respect, i fully disagree.
Removing crates would be an awfull idea.
Many players can't afford crownstore items, but are able to afford crown crate items via twitch or endeavor farm.
This whole idea would ruin the game for many and i see no need for that.
(Especially with gifting disabled and gold to crown trades not being safe unfurtunaly)

Overwatch is apparently on a player decline also because of removing crates and selling skins at expensive prices.

Please don't do something like this. Crates are fine.

And yes i also fully disagree with battlepass systems on eso.

Crown Crates are gambling. In any gambling situation you are spending more in the long run (on average) than you would be otherwise. That's just math. It's how it works. It's how it's designed to work.

The house always wins in the long run.

Surragard

I don’t see any reason to change the structure. These are arguments against gambling generally, which were made and lost back when the crown store first appeared (and frankly have been made and lost across the industry). There’s nothing that’s changed so I don’t see why it would be revisited now. If the revenue stream changed substantially, ZoS would probably address it but that’s not information we have access to.

spartaxoxo

danno8 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

With all the respect, i fully disagree.
Removing crates would be an awfull idea.
Many players can't afford crownstore items, but are able to afford crown crate items via twitch or endeavor farm.
This whole idea would ruin the game for many and i see no need for that.
(Especially with gifting disabled and gold to crown trades not being safe unfurtunaly)

Overwatch is apparently on a player decline also because of removing crates and selling skins at expensive prices.

Please don't do something like this. Crates are fine.

And yes i also fully disagree with battlepass systems on eso.

Crown Crates are gambling. In any gambling situation you are spending more in the long run (on average) than you would be otherwise. That's just math. It's how it works. It's how it's designed to work.

The house always wins in the long run.

It really depends on the prices being charged and the odds. Overwatch 1 weighted the cosmetics so that you did not get duplicates of the same color unless you owned every thing in that tier. On average you got 1 legendary in every 20 or so loot boxes in OW1. This was about 20 bucks. In addition, you got a bunch of cosmetics for the 3 lower tiers including several skins. Now, they charge 20 bucks for 1 skin and a small amount of other collectables, none of which are other skins.

So, loot boxes in Overwatch 1 were cheaper than buying the skin directly in Overwatch 2.

Given what Elder Scrolls Online charges for houses, I could easily imagine the same could end up true for apex/radiant apex rewards.

I_killed_Vivec

danno8 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

With all the respect, i fully disagree.
Removing crates would be an awfull idea.
Many players can't afford crownstore items, but are able to afford crown crate items via twitch or endeavor farm.
This whole idea would ruin the game for many and i see no need for that.
(Especially with gifting disabled and gold to crown trades not being safe unfurtunaly)

Overwatch is apparently on a player decline also because of removing crates and selling skins at expensive prices.

Please don't do something like this. Crates are fine.

And yes i also fully disagree with battlepass systems on eso.

Crown Crates are gambling. In any gambling situation you are spending more in the long run (on average) than you would be otherwise. That's just math. It's how it works. It's how it's designed to work.

The house always wins in the long run.

Especially as in this case the house is only giving out an opportunity cost - the money they might have made by selling the items for crowns.

It's a deeply cynical calculation, but ZoS have determined that the lure of gambling, together with desirable but almost unobtainable items, means that people will pay a lot more to gamble than the would to buy the same item outright.

In other words, the gambling house is more lucrative than the shop.

GooGa592

I haven't bought crown crates for 3 years or so, and don't plan to ever buy them again. The RNG is just too stingy. I do appreciate the free crates every once in a while though. It reminds me that there is no reason to have FOMO when it comes to crown crates.

UGotBenched91

Of the two evils… I’d take crates any day.

For example, OW had loot boxes which were the equivalent of crates. You could get credits from duplicates, just likes crates, to buy things you wanted. In OW2 they got rid of them. Now everything is double the price. I don’t want that happening to ESO as well.

danno8

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Of the two evils… I’d take crates any day.

For example, OW had loot boxes which were the equivalent of crates. You could get credits from duplicates, just likes crates, to buy things you wanted. In OW2 they got rid of them. Now everything is double the price. I don’t want that happening to ESO as well.

OK, but if everything is double the price but you get exactly what you want, how much would you have spent on those crates to get the same item before?

5000 crown is roughly $40 USD which will give you 15 crates or 15 chances at your desired drop. If you want a certain Apex drop, the chance of that happening we know is around .3% chance according to crowncrates.com. So you would have to buy around 20 15 crate bundles in order to have a statistically long run average chance of getting the drop you want. Sure you will get other stuff too, but if you didn't really want that stuff then what exactly did you pay for?

If you do the math that is $800 dollars, on average, over long runs to get that Apex. Sure it could be less, but it could also be more just as likely.

So unless the most desirable items in the OW2 store are averaging an $800 price tag (and from what I can tell they are absolutely not even close).

There is a reason why loot crates are so prevalent in games these days. It isn't because it's a good deal for the player. At all. Not even close.