Classless start.

Vhozek

Yep.
I launch the game, create a new character that I want to chill with without thinking too much about what I want to do combat-wise but I'm put off by having to be forced into a class so early on.
I'm stuck thinking way ahead into the future of my character's lifespan when I just want to spawn and swing a weapon whenever it's necessary, seeing where my luck takes me and what type of behavior I pick up along the way.
I'm no longer interested in trying to create a specific playstyle since the overland has sucked the life out of me, I just want to spawn and worry about my class later. I don't even care if it's a permanent choice, I just don't want to pick it so early on anymore and feel like it's an actual Elder Scrolls game.
Anyone else beat up by this? It's not even burn out by the game itself, just sick of the lock so early on in a TES game and beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers.
I'm not a late-game person either, I delete my characters constantly and make new ones in all MMOs I've ever touched but the early game in this one is so dreadful because it never feels like you're progressing. At least with this change I feel like I unlocked something for killing mudcrabs shaped like bears, goblins, and trolls.

I don't know, devs, you could use this opportunity to heavily advertise the class change tokens. Whatever the hell it takes to make this game interesting early on. I'm so [snip] tired of playing a sub-par experience with this game after the countless requests to increase mob difficulty. There's gotta be something to make it fun early on. This is the only MMO that feels so dreadful at early levels and it just so happens to be from my favorite franchise. Not even Daggerfall with the vanilla exploits feels this braindead. We're practically on TGM over here holy [snip].

[edited for profanity bypass]

Treeshka

The game created in mind where classes is the deepest core mechanic of any character. So it is probably not possible that they will ditch this idea and allow players to select their classes whenever they want after character creation.

Pelanora

When you want to play the game but it's not the game, it's time to let go.

Vhozek

Pelanora wrote: »

When you want to play the game but it's not the game, it's time to let go.

It is the game, that's why I launch it because I want to play it.

Lugaldu

I think that one option should be that you can change the class at any time, keyword class change tokens.

But I don't think there's much point in starting your character with no class at all. I mean, you can also look at it from the role-playing aspect - we don't start out as children who haven't set out on a certain path yet. As an adult you have to make a choice at some point, you also choose a field of study before you start studying IRL. If you don't like it, you'll change it later.

hrothbern

The weird thing, completely opposite to ESO, is that IRL you cannot change your genes, but you can choose and change your education and job, your "class".

I_killed_Vivec

But this is not real life, this is fantasy.

And you have to remember that originally you started the game as Vestige - you are for all intents and purposes blank, except that you retain the potential from your previous existence. So while your skills are at zero, you do have a pre-defined set of skills. As you progress you are revealing more of your innate nature, you just don't know it.

You can learn new things, but you can't change who you are. So you can pick up skills with a bow, or a staff, or soul magic, undaunted, mages/fighters guild... you can even become a vampire.

But you cannot change who you are...

Mesite

All the weapons are the same. Class skills just add colour. Mostly florescent green at the moment.

Amerises

Mesite wrote: »

All the weapons are the same. Class skills just add colour. Mostly florescent green at the moment.

This.

Stx

They missed a huge opportunity when they launched this game to not have classes, but to have a bunch of skill lines that you could pick three from to specialize in. In previous elder scrolls games that’s how it basically worked. Would have been easy to balance for an MMO. Categorize each skill tree into offensive, defensive, utility etc and not allow stacking of certain kinds or whatever.

To anyone who says players would just pick the best three and everyone would be the same. Yeah, that’s basically how the game is currently anyway, everyone uses the same skills. Also, better skill balance will lead to more options.

_Zathras_

Vhozek wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

When you want to play the game but it's not the game, it's time to let go.

It is the game, that's why I launch it because I want to play it.

That moment when you are offered insight, but you're looking elsewhere.

Ragnarok0130

Vhozek wrote: »

Yep.
Anyone else beat up by this? It's not even burn out by the game itself, just sick of the lock so early on in a TES game and beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers.[snip] I just don't want to pick it so early on anymore and feel like it's an actual Elder Scrolls game.
.

Ah this is your problem, this isn't a TES game it's an MMO set in the universe of the single player TES games. By virtue of being an MMO the freedom of not being locked into a class or role that you experienced in the single player games will not be there because the game is multiplayer and ultimately must be balanced no matter how poor of a job ZoS does at balancing. Classes are part of that balancing process not to mention they've been the cornerstone of the player experience since the game's inception - but judging from your 2014 signup date you already know that.

Remember how early in the game we had difficult overland? The game unfortunately wasn't very successful as a result of that and many other issues. I think a veteran overland would solve your "beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers." issue. Hopefully we get it sometime in the future but it sounds like you're actually experiencing burnout more than anything else. If you are, taking a break is perfectly fine, and may even reinvigorate your enjoyment of the game upon your return. Let's face it after a few balancing patches from the combat team ESO will likely play like an entirely different game than you are playing right now.

I also agree that we need class change tokens, but I fear we won't get any satisfaction in the area until ZoS is forced by some higher power to do so. My only advice is to take a break and boot up Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim as those game will give you the experience that you seem to be looking for and come back to ESO when you feel the need for an MMO experience.

omnidoh

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And you have to remember that originally you started the game as Vestige - you are for all intents and purposes blank, except that you retain the potential from your previous existence. So while your skills are at zero, you do have a pre-defined set of skills. As you progress you are revealing more of your innate nature, you just don't know it.

You can learn new things, but you can't change who you are. So you can pick up skills with a bow, or a staff, or soul magic, undaunted, mages/fighters guild... you can even become a vampire.

But you cannot change who you are...

Umm.. let's see
1. Race change token - Check
2. Appearance change token - Check
3. Alliance change token - Check

Yeah, your argument is not only inaccurate, but moot.
We can "change" anything about our characters except their class, and "class" is non-canonical with historical Elder Scrolls anyway.

And let's not forget that all new characters since the first expansion are NOT vestiges unless they choose to be. We can all refuse the "Benefactor" quest at any time.

I agree with the OP.

I_killed_Vivec

omnidoh wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

And you have to remember that originally you started the game as Vestige - you are for all intents and purposes blank, except that you retain the potential from your previous existence. So while your skills are at zero, you do have a pre-defined set of skills. As you progress you are revealing more of your innate nature, you just don't know it.

You can learn new things, but you can't change who you are. So you can pick up skills with a bow, or a staff, or soul magic, undaunted, mages/fighters guild... you can even become a vampire.

But you cannot change who you are...

Umm.. let's see
1. Race change token - Check
2. Appearance change token - Check
3. Alliance change token - Check

Yeah, your argument is not only inaccurate, but moot.
We can "change" anything about our characters except their class, and "class" is non-canonical with historical Elder Scrolls anyway.

And let's not forget that all new characters since the first expansion are NOT vestiges unless they choose to be. We can all refuse the "Benefactor" quest at any time.

I agree with the OP.

As I said, remember that originally you started the game as Vestige. When I started (2014), there was no race change, no appearance change, no alliance change.

Appearance, alliance - who cares? Cosmetic, doesn't change who you are (like deep down, man).

Race.. I'll give you that

But even with race change it is just a way to get the most out of your chosen class.

"Argument" isn't moot (and is only slightly inaccurate) It's an MMORPG, you are supposed to use your imagination to fill in the spaces of your origin story.

And on a more practical basis, ZoS decided on classes to more easily balance the game while giving some diversity. Maybe they were right, maybe not. But it is what it is, and I really doubt that they will change it.

Sheezabeast

Nothing is stopping you from not slotting any class skills, and instead, slotting weapon skills. You can achieve a classless character if you only invest skillpoints into weapon and armor passives and your racial passives.

Kendaric

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Nothing is stopping you from not slotting any class skills, and instead, slotting weapon skills. You can achieve a classless character if you only invest skillpoints into weapon and armor passives and your racial passives.

That's basically how I play on most of my characters

Very few of them use any class skills at all and rely on weapon/guild skills (and of course on Vigor) instead. It's not ideal by any means, but for me at least it's fun.

omnidoh

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

As I said, remember that originally you started the game as Vestige. When I started (2014), there was no race change, no appearance change, no alliance change.

Appearance, alliance - who cares? Cosmetic, doesn't change who you are (like deep down, man).

Race.. I'll give you that

But even with race change it is just a way to get the most out of your chosen class.

"Argument" isn't moot (and is only slightly inaccurate) It's an MMORPG, you are supposed to use your imagination to fill in the spaces of your origin story.

And on a more practical basis, ZoS decided on classes to more easily balance the game while giving some diversity. Maybe they were right, maybe not. But it is what it is, and I really doubt that they will change it.

Oh I know ZOS won't change it, unless it were profitable to do so.
Then it's just a a few hundreds clicks and keypresses away.
It's not a technical problem, it's a money one, and sadly always has been.

Players will always prefer more choice over less, unless the option for less is itself chosen.
But eh, if ZoS doesn't do it, another company will, and many have. It's just a question of when.

Amottica

Treeshka wrote: »

The game created in mind where classes is the deepest core mechanic of any character. So it is probably not possible that they will ditch this idea and allow players to select their classes whenever they want after character creation.

I agree. It is part of the core creation of ESO. It is extremely unlikely such a change would even get some consideration since it would require considerable rework with little actual benefit to gameplay to make such a thing happen.

Tandor

No thanks, the game is fine as it is, being a hybrid between a classic CRPG and MMORPG. It's also fine at the start, because for every player who wanted to start without a defined direction through class allocation, there would be more players who would give up precisely because of the lack of initial direction. In some ways I wish it wasn't so, but sadly we live in a MMO generation where too many players insist on their hand being held every step of the way.

Soarora

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Yep.
Anyone else beat up by this? It's not even burn out by the game itself, just sick of the lock so early on in a TES game and beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers.[snip] I just don't want to pick it so early on anymore and feel like it's an actual Elder Scrolls game.
.

Ah this is your problem, this isn't a TES game it's an MMO set in the universe of the single player TES games. By virtue of being an MMO the freedom of not being locked into a class or role that you experienced in the single player games will not be there because the game is multiplayer and ultimately must be balanced no matter how poor of a job ZoS does at balancing. Classes are part of that balancing process not to mention they've been the cornerstone of the player experience since the game's inception - but judging from your 2014 signup date you already know that.

Remember how early in the game we had difficult overland? The game unfortunately wasn't very successful as a result of that and many other issues. I think a veteran overland would solve your "beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers." issue. Hopefully we get it sometime in the future but it sounds like you're actually experiencing burnout more than anything else. If you are, taking a break is perfectly fine, and may even reinvigorate your enjoyment of the game upon your return. Let's face it after a few balancing patches from the combat team ESO will likely play like an entirely different game than you are playing right now.

I also agree that we need class change tokens, but I fear we won't get any satisfaction in the area until ZoS is forced by some higher power to do so. My only advice is to take a break and boot up Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim as those game will give you the experience that you seem to be looking for and come back to ESO when you feel the need for an MMO experience.

I want to add that technically this lock early in the game is true to Elder Scrolls (although I'm sure the lock is because it is an MMO. It is an MMO before it is a TES game). After all, in Oblivion you choose your class and mundus at the start and you cannot change it later. I believe the same goes for Morrowind. Whilst you can work around this in the single player games, having a permanent class isn't a new concept. It's only in Skyrim that you are truly classless and can change your build in totality whenever you'd like.

Solarius_eu

Soarora wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Yep.
Anyone else beat up by this? It's not even burn out by the game itself, just sick of the lock so early on in a TES game and beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers.[snip] I just don't want to pick it so early on anymore and feel like it's an actual Elder Scrolls game.
.

Ah this is your problem, this isn't a TES game it's an MMO set in the universe of the single player TES games. By virtue of being an MMO the freedom of not being locked into a class or role that you experienced in the single player games will not be there because the game is multiplayer and ultimately must be balanced no matter how poor of a job ZoS does at balancing. Classes are part of that balancing process not to mention they've been the cornerstone of the player experience since the game's inception - but judging from your 2014 signup date you already know that.

Remember how early in the game we had difficult overland? The game unfortunately wasn't very successful as a result of that and many other issues. I think a veteran overland would solve your "beating up everything at low level with my amazing super powers." issue. Hopefully we get it sometime in the future but it sounds like you're actually experiencing burnout more than anything else. If you are, taking a break is perfectly fine, and may even reinvigorate your enjoyment of the game upon your return. Let's face it after a few balancing patches from the combat team ESO will likely play like an entirely different game than you are playing right now.

I also agree that we need class change tokens, but I fear we won't get any satisfaction in the area until ZoS is forced by some higher power to do so. My only advice is to take a break and boot up Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim as those game will give you the experience that you seem to be looking for and come back to ESO when you feel the need for an MMO experience.

I want to add that technically this lock early in the game is true to Elder Scrolls (although I'm sure the lock is because it is an MMO. It is an MMO before it is a TES game). After all, in Oblivion you choose your class and mundus at the start and you cannot change it later. I believe the same goes for Morrowind. Whilst you can work around this in the single player games, having a permanent class isn't a new concept. It's only in Skyrim that you are truly classless and can change your build in totality whenever you'd like.

Yep, even in Arena and Daggerfall you chose a class at character creation (though Daggerfall did have custom classes)