Nerf Artic Blast/Polar Wind and buff Spores/Enchanted Growth

StaticWave · July 4

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

i11ionward · July 4

StaticWave wrote: »

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period.
Thoughts?

I think any heal should not scale with offensive stats. Perhaps 50% of the max resource and 50% of the offensive characteristics, but not exactly like it is now.

I think Arctic Blast and Polar Wind have no problem, the problem is that a warden with 45k HP can get 7k WD and deal decent damage.

Arctic Blast heals significantly less than Healthy Offering or Coagulating Blood, healing is definitely not a problem, but skill overloaded with additional effects this is possibly a problem.

Polar Wind is a skill for tanks in PVE, as I wrote above, the problem is not in the skill, but in the fact that having a lot of HP, warden can to deal a lot of damage.

The Green Balance Skill Line is very boring for pvp, I would like to see some kind of offensive skill in this line (one or two morphs for the line).

Spores was originally made as a group heal, what's the point of balancing it for selfhealing?

IncultaWolf · July 4

I also have a 44k HP warden for pvp, and it's currently my strongest character. I can do 2m damage and 1m healing with polar wind alone in a battleground. People use to cry about the werewolf heal being OP, but polar wind has a HoT attached, AND heals an additional ally. I don't really agree with nerfs, unless we're talking about corrosive armor, if anything necromancer desperately needs buffs before we start changing other class abilities. Every eso streamer and content creator have been saying how bad necro is. Also they just nerfed arctic blast so it isn't an on demand stun anymore, that didn't last long, even though all the good pvpers knew the HP scaling morph was the better choice.

xDeusEJRx · July 4

I agree with the concept. Take away healing power from arctic blast and polar wind, give it to mushrooms so they can actually play into the healing passives more.

I would also like to see the arctic blast changed back to instant as well if it were to lose healing power, just make it a fully functional stun at that point

GooGa592 · July 4

Agree. Arctic blast is too strong with a heal and a stun in same skill.

LittlePinkDot · July 4

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

Weckless · July 5

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

LittlePinkDot · July 5

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

NordSwordnBoard · July 5

Well, one of them requires you to at least have the targets in front of you. The other can save a person from death you can't see who is behind you. I'm all for healing being more interactive and skill based. It promotes healing as a role instead of just a part of DD skill rotation. Without taking a great heal away from Warden, they could transfer that power to Spores. Same heal value from different skill with different effects etc. It makes more sense the best heal comes from the "healing" skill line instead of the "tanking" one doesn't it?

StaticWave · July 5

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

WoppaBoem · July 5

StaticWave wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

Play it and you know it. Wardens are strong but they have limitations and disadvantages. NB and DK are having a lot without any disadvantages. Crazy heals, strong cc's and OP dmg combined with the strongest defences with corrosive and cloak.

Also arcanist are so tanky them are much bigger issue then HP wardens and all meta hoppers will be on them if not already.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail · July 5

B.S.

The skill is overloaded on PVP.

Battlespirit however can address this, along with the other heals cried about, and to leave PVE unaffected

LittlePinkDot · July 5

StaticWave wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

Well I don't know how you're getting 7k I'm assuming unbuffed weapon damage damage at the same time as 45k health.
I don't have 45k health, I rather have more attribute points into stamina, and I need my polar wind to stay the way it is for my 31k health. If you just flat nerf it, it will probably end up being useless for anyone with a reasonable amount of health.
What I can tell you is things need to be made to suit the average casual player.

If you go over to the Warden thread in the PTS forum you'll see that nobody really likes the 12% buff to frost staffs because it means it's BiS and you have a useless passive if you don't use a frost staff. It's limiting. It's better if they just replace that passive with something useful regardless of what weapon you're using.
It's almost as bad as Arcanist passives that only proc from generating or consuming Crux. Have to nerf themselves just to use a weapon skill instead of a class skill.

StaticWave · July 6

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

Well I don't know how you're getting 7k I'm assuming unbuffed weapon damage damage at the same time as 45k health.
I don't have 45k health, I rather have more attribute points into stamina, and I need my polar wind to stay the way it is for my 31k health. If you just flat nerf it, it will probably end up being useless for anyone with a reasonable amount of health.
What I can tell you is things need to be made to suit the average casual player.

If you go over to the Warden thread in the PTS forum you'll see that nobody really likes the 12% buff to frost staffs because it means it's BiS and you have a useless passive if you don't use a frost staff. It's limiting. It's better if they just replace that passive with something useful regardless of what weapon you're using.
It's almost as bad as Arcanist passives that only proc from generating or consuming Crux. Have to nerf themselves just to use a weapon skill instead of a class skill.

Fully buffed before Balorgh or Continuous is 6.9k and 47k HP. Can always get it to 8k+ with full stack Balorgh, Continuous, and Berserker enchant. Tooltip for Polar Wind is 15k before Major Mending or Focused Mending CP.

ixthUA · July 6

The current state of wardens is the result of player community trying to balance the class.
Warden tanks have a very strong burst heal, stronger than healing tree on a warden healer, but it is expensive to cast and cannot be spammed, like healers do.
Making it a self-heal (removing healing of other person) makes sense, as it belongs to the tank skill tree, not support skill tree.

SandandStars · July 6

I dont know how you get 7k WD and 45k HP.

But I play a Magden with a staff, so maybe it’s a Stam pvp thing?

I use polar wind, have 38k health, and there are plenty of times polar wind doesnt save me.

I do see the warden block tanks that spam PW and are annoyingly unkillable, but they dont do much damage.

NBs and DKs are incredibly tough to beat on my Magden. Imo, you can abuse PW with a 45k block tank build, but if you build into high pen and sd to try to have offensive viability, the heal is not that strong. My polar wind does ~ 5.5k in battlegrounds, with 38k health.

Weckless · July 6

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

Well I don't know how you're getting 7k I'm assuming unbuffed weapon damage damage at the same time as 45k health.
I don't have 45k health, I rather have more attribute points into stamina, and I need my polar wind to stay the way it is for my 31k health. If you just flat nerf it, it will probably end up being useless for anyone with a reasonable amount of health.
What I can tell you is things need to be made to suit the average casual player.

If you go over to the Warden thread in the PTS forum you'll see that nobody really likes the 12% buff to frost staffs because it means it's BiS and you have a useless passive if you don't use a frost staff. It's limiting. It's better if they just replace that passive with something useful regardless of what weapon you're using.
It's almost as bad as Arcanist passives that only proc from generating or consuming Crux. Have to nerf themselves just to use a weapon skill instead of a class skill.

If his changes went through you realize you would have a good burst heal that costs stamina instead of magicka and also procs major mending if used while under 40% health. His change would HELP you

Weckless · July 6

By the way I love how the same people in the nerf NB threads find a way to turn a nerf Warden thread into a nerf NB thread 🤔

LittlePinkDot · July 6

Weckless wrote: »

By the way I love how the same people in the nerf NB threads find a way to turn a nerf Warden thread into a nerf NB thread 🤔

Nobody here said NB should be nerfed.

Alharion · July 6

And let's not forget the utime of the necro, which makes him immortal and where there's no point in playing in front of him anymore...

Alharion · July 6

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

By the way I love how the same people in the nerf NB threads find a way to turn a nerf Warden thread into a nerf NB thread 🤔

Nobody here said NB should be nerfed.

A very bad person to be able to find a difficult NB

Melzo · July 6

StaticWave wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

I understand it's needed for PvE tanks, but Polar Wind scaling with max HP arguably makes this ability the best heal in the entire game right now for PvP. DPS Wardens stacking 45k+ HP with almost 7k weapon damage should not exist. I think ZoS should tone down or even remove the HoT component of this ability to bring it in line with other HP scaling heals.

Artic Blast should not scale with offensive stats, period. Currently, it has a decent tooltip comparable to other burst heals, has a decent DoT, and can stun through block. I mean, why? Warden has an entire line dedicated to healing with Spores, which should have been its main burst heal but never gets used. I think ZoS should actually buff Spores to be more competitive and revert the change to Artic Blast.

Thoughts?

Leave my polar wind alone.
She already doesn't even have a spammable except Wrecking blow and no stun.

What does the spammable have to do with anything regarding healing lol.

Because they already had enough sacrifices to make.

Give me a spammable like surprise attack or a stun like fossilize on my warden and then you can nerf the heal.

You think? I can make a 45k HP dizzying swing stamden with almost 7k WD, 18k+ pen, and a fat Polar Wind tooltip.

I can also make a 40k resist magden with Ice Staff front bar dealing 4k DPS despite having literally 2 dmg abilities (Shalk and Crushing Shock/Frost Reach), and the rest defensive.

Idk why Wardens can slot an Ice Staff and get 12% dmg done, which is not only 2% stronger than Inferno Staff, but also applies to AoE damage, not just single target, while also having the blocking capability of an Ice Staff.

Idk, it doesn’t look like a lot of sacrifices to me.

This class only benefits from passive skills. For the most part, all damage depends on proc sets and weapon skills. But the class itself does not represent anything special in terms of attacking skills. Something I don’t remember that cockroaches would do a lot of damage.

Twelve percent isn't fair? The difference between melee and staff is about 600 spell damage. Classes like nb and your sorcerer get the most benefit from inferno staff but classes like necromancer and warden lose a lot of damage from AoE attacks. When cockroaches hit 3 thousand because of the inferno staff, this is inadequately small.

Ten percent of the universal ones compensates for the weakness of the staves, but 2 percent is a real class bonus. Does your sorcerer have no damage bonuses??

StaticWave · July 6

SandandStars wrote: »

I dont know how you get 7k WD and 45k HP.

But I play a Magden with a staff, so maybe it’s a Stam pvp thing?

I use polar wind, have 38k health, and there are plenty of times polar wind doesnt save me.

I do see the warden block tanks that spam PW and are annoyingly unkillable, but they dont do much damage.

NBs and DKs are incredibly tough to beat on my Magden. Imo, you can abuse PW with a 45k block tank build, but if you build into high pen and sd to try to have offensive viability, the heal is not that strong. My polar wind does ~ 5.5k in battlegrounds, with 38k health.

You get 7k WD and 45k HP on a stamden. Balorgh + Clever Alc + Rallying Cry + Sea Serpent should get you there. Big HP pool, good crit resist, HP scaling burst heal, and good regen.

The only drawback of this build is low resource pool. It shouldn’t be a problem though because you’re just so tanky and you only need a good burst combo to kill most people.

LittlePinkDot · July 6

StaticWave wrote: »

SandandStars wrote: »

I dont know how you get 7k WD and 45k HP.

But I play a Magden with a staff, so maybe it’s a Stam pvp thing?

I use polar wind, have 38k health, and there are plenty of times polar wind doesnt save me.

I do see the warden block tanks that spam PW and are annoyingly unkillable, but they dont do much damage.

NBs and DKs are incredibly tough to beat on my Magden. Imo, you can abuse PW with a 45k block tank build, but if you build into high pen and sd to try to have offensive viability, the heal is not that strong. My polar wind does ~ 5.5k in battlegrounds, with 38k health.

You get 7k WD and 45k HP on a stamden. Balorgh + Clever Alc + Rallying Cry + Sea Serpent should get you there. Big HP pool, good crit resist, HP scaling burst heal, and good regen.

The only drawback of this build is low resource pool. It shouldn’t be a problem though because you’re just so tanky and you only need a good burst combo to kill most people.

So only your build should be what determines what gets nerfed?

Low resource pool is a problem for some people. It just flat out makes any character not fun.
I managed to get my PvP warden to solo 3 waves of Black Rose Prison arena before I had enough of that **** 😝
Don't think I would've been able to do that if she had nothing into stamina.

Here's a better idea. ZOS should just put a hard cap on how many attribute points can be put into health.
It would solve the health stacking of all classes.

StaticWave · July 6

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

So only your build should be what determines what gets nerfed?

Lol, I gave you a build that takes full advantage of Polar Wind, making Warden tanky and has the same damage as a DPS build.

If that is your perspective towards this thread, then I have nothing else to discuss with you.

React · July 6

I don't really think arctic is that bad of an offender, although I totally agree with the idea that the healing could/should be shifted from that skill to the green balance burst heal. Makes no sense that the actual burst heal of the class is a worse burst heal than a skill that stuns/dots/applies debuffs.

Polar wind on the other hand, is absurdly broken. Being able to play a 50k hp build that can hit 15k+ burst heals is a joke. Even worse, the skill hits two people every cast and at 50k hp is one of, if not the strongest non ultimate HOTs in the game.

HP scaling anything is bad for PVP. It encourages people to build into playstyles that are all reward with 0 risk. I'd be okay if the ability was a self burst heal that scaled on HP so that the PVE tanks could continue using it, but as a multi target burst heal + hot in PVP it's just far too strong.

LittlePinkDot · July 6

React wrote: »

I don't really think arctic is that bad of an offender, although I totally agree with the idea that the healing could/should be shifted from that skill to the green balance burst heal. Makes no sense that the actual burst heal of the class is a worse burst heal than a skill that stuns/dots/applies debuffs.

Polar wind on the other hand, is absurdly broken. Being able to play a 50k hp build that can hit 15k+ burst heals is a joke. Even worse, the skill hits two people every cast and at 50k hp is one of, if not the strongest non ultimate HOTs in the game.

HP scaling anything is bad for PVP. It encourages people to build into playstyles that are all reward with 0 risk. I'd be okay if the ability was a self burst heal that scaled on HP so that the PVE tanks could continue using it, but as a multi target burst heal + hot in PVP it's just far too strong.

Polar wouldn't be a 15k burst heal if there was a hard cap on how many attribute points you could put into health.
Wouldn't have 50k HP DK's either for that matter.
2 birds with 1 stone.

Oblivion_Protocol · July 6

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Polar wouldn't be a 15k burst heal if there was a hard cap on how many attribute points you could put into health.
Wouldn't have 50k HP DK's either for that matter.
2 birds with 1 stone.

The problem is that you’d be making things difficult for PvE tanks, who often need every drop of HP they can get. Besides, high HP isn’t the issue. Try putting all your attributes into HP, then going into a No Proc/No CP with an off-meta build and you’ll see that high HP just means it takes an extra second to melt you.

The issue is the absolutely ludicrous amount of sustain you can maintain with nothing invested into your offensive stats. When you can hold block while hammering the heal button and not run out of juice, that’s when things get ridiculous.

OBJnoob · July 6

Im not sure where I fall on this. On one hand, I think Polar Wind is over performing. On the other hand, wardens have a passive that grants minor toughness and it seems to me building into max HP is supposed to be a thing for them. I liked what someone said, React maybe, that if it were strictly a selfish heal then it wouldn't be so bad. That would be a nice change. Short of that-- let's continue to discuss nerfing HP in general to help the PvP meta, and maybe hold off on nerfing Polar specifically until we see how that pans out.

Meanwhile... I don't think Arctic needs nerfing at all. It's been messed with too much recently. If you don't like the current state of it then okay-- I understand-- but let's change something else first, eh? Or like 5 somethings. Warden fits snugly in the middle of class performance for PvP in my mind. Hardly worth talking about. I understand that the skill seems overloaded but we are talking about a class that doesn't have a good spammable, a good execute, or a good stun.

Bird spammable is awful and I tried very hard to make it work wearing Innate Axiom in Ravenwatch. It's just so freaking slow. And you almost never get the full 400 damage from it because everybody's so dang fast these days you're always fighting someone right in your face.

Bear execute. Riiight. So zero execute for PvP then.

Arctic is kinda a good stun but if you remove the heal then it's not anymore. The idea of a delayed stun is kinda perfect but having it be PBAoE kinda ruins it. And if the heal were removed then we could make it instant again but, again, how many times do we want to go back and forth on the same skill? It isn't even that good. And then there's Crystal Slab which, both morphs are kinda awesome IF you're fighting someone who uses projectiles, but the stun is nigh uncontrollable and MORE likely to hit the bow spammer you haven't even seen yet than the person you're actually involved with and trying to combo.

Also... The idea of a stun and heal combined into one skill isn't even unique. DKs have one in Obsidian Shard. The Bow skill line has one... Or... Well I haven't used the skill in a while, draining shot still stuns right? And Magnum is a literal knockback? Every DK ultimate does damage and heals them. So does the NB Soul Tether. There's probably at least one more example I can't think of. It's just not a big deal. It's arguably a bad stun and only a decent heal.

WoppaBoem · July 6

React wrote: »

I don't really think arctic is that bad of an offender, although I totally agree with the idea that the healing could/should be shifted from that skill to the green balance burst heal. Makes no sense that the actual burst heal of the class is a worse burst heal than a skill that stuns/dots/applies debuffs.

Polar wind on the other hand, is absurdly broken. Being able to play a 50k hp build that can hit 15k+ burst heals is a joke. Even worse, the skill hits two people every cast and at 50k hp is one of, if not the strongest non ultimate HOTs in the game.

HP scaling anything is bad for PVP. It encourages people to build into playstyles that are all reward with 0 risk. I'd be okay if the ability was a self burst heal that scaled on HP so that the PVE tanks could continue using it, but as a multi target burst heal + hot in PVP it's just far too strong.

But on my dk i have 22k plus heals with coag..... 1 heal and full health, i understand the big health pool plus doing dmg is an issue but that is not polarwind's fault nor will that be solved by nerfing it.

Weckless · July 7

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

By the way I love how the same people in the nerf NB threads find a way to turn a nerf Warden thread into a nerf NB thread 🤔

Nobody here said NB should be nerfed.

They didn't say it directly they just slid in irrelevant information about how strong nbs are. It's called building a narrative.