I have no idea how to git gud

ArchMikem

I've slogged in Cyro and Imp City for years now. Main is a Legate, three others are mid level. But they all use PvE builds because that's what I know to make and use. That makes me a glass cannon, but even most of the time against the tryhards I'm not even the cannon.

I just can't understand. How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build? It should be impossible, this game has roles, its about choosing the type you want to spec into, strengthening one and weakening the rest. I "try" to imitate some of the things that wreck me and end up being a noodle regardless. My sustain is terrible, or I have no crit, or my resource pool is low, I'm always trading something yet I'm fighting 5 stars that appear to have everything. The most success I have in PvP is with my StamBlade, but that's squarely because of cloak. It's a crutch, I won't deny, it helps me stay in the fight cause I cannot brawl. After years like this I keep thinking, gee, it sure would be nice for once to actually take hits without worry, press a few buttons and win fights.

MerguezMan

So, you invested in 4 different characters, buit them for PvE, and became PvP's "Jack of all trades"...

Maybe pick 1 toon, and push his buid into 1 type of PvP that you feel most comfortable with ?
Get him to have a stun/burst combo instead of his regular PvE rotation.
Train in duels until you "get it right", and then take him into Cyro/IC to see how it goes.

Also :
- No Proc campaigns and BGs don't play the same as CP campaigns. Give that a try with appropriate sets.
- Immovable & invisibility potions are totally worth the investment
- You have almost 0 chances of killing those health tanks alone, unless you bomb them in a group
- Invest EITHER in max crit or max penetration, not both. Players you will face have invested either in crit resist or regular resist, rarely both with high damage on top.
- Mag shields > Healing in PvP. You don't need super-high healing when you can double-up your health pool by just pushing a button. You can't sustain that forever while using ressources to attack, neither can others.

Udrath

Try pack leader werewolf. Really easy to play and learn pvp until you can find yourself a build that fits your playstyle. Does decent damage and gives teammates minor courage. Many people will disagree but I find werewolf very fun if you know how to build them. You only have 1 strong heal so you have to learn to Dodge and block correctly. Learning to this will carry over to another build when you are ready. Pack leader duration last a lot longer than berserker if you didn’t know because of the 2 dire wolves.


All heavy but 1 light belt. Wretched vitality and eternal vigor, with all infused weapon damage jewerly. This is a good starter build, especially for a nightblade.

No need to gold them out just have them blue if you want, but of course gold your weapons. You can use shapeshifter chain or oakensoul, even gaze of sithis. I like dw with maces and defend 2h back bar. Use tri-stat potions and tri-stat food cause your recovery will be really good.

Mix your stats so you have 20k magicka a least and then stack health. You can want as much penetration you can get so use lover Mundas and monster sets with penetration on them.

Eventually you’ll get the hang of using 1 bar and not looking at your keys, movement, knowing when to back off etc and can move on to a different playstyle and build.

LittlePinkDot

Stamina/health as main stats is the best in my opinion. You need stamina for breaking free, sprinting, roll dodging.

And don't use ground effect DOT's. Nobody is dumb enough to just stand there in your attacks.

Aim for at least 30k health.

HiImRex

Build for pvp and play the game that eso is, not the game you think it might be

Alchimiste1

I'm going to give you actual advice if you actually want to improve at pvp.

A lot of people are simply going to tell you get a different build, use this instead, try this etc. And a lot of that does hold some truth but ultimately it won't really make you a better player, it will just make you a better geared player. If you want to get better at pvp get a friend who is good at pvp or simply a bit better than you and start dueling them a lot. It's true that just because you are good at dueling doesn't mean you are going to be a good AvA or battlegrounds player. However, think about it what good pvp players aren't comfortable fighting at least one other player without backup? Learning to duel will teach you how to actually play your build, what its strength and weaknesses are, how to setup and ideal combo, what to watch out for when fighting other classes etc. Just don't go around fighting some cheese builds and expect to learn anything. Thats why I say it's best to get a friend who can help you out. (will take it easy on you and not stomp you so you can learn).

Once you get comfortable with 1v1s, you'll probably want to go into cyro by yourself. Yeah, you are probably going to die a lot. But the goal is to get used to surviving on your own while still trying to do some damage/kill people. Do not be afraid to die. If you are afraid of dying you will never get better. You can also play bgs or with a small group but if I'm being honest nothing will help you improve quite as much and as fast as being solo. Give it a month and you'll have the mechanics down and at that point play however you want.(group, small scale, zerg, etc)

Side note; to the people telling you to stick to one class/build, I actually would advise against it. The more classes/builds you try out the more you will learn about the strength and weakness if each class and how to deal with them. Good Luck!

merpins

PVE builds for the most part do not work in PVP. So I mean, that's more or less the problem you're having. Most PVP builds aren't that difficult to build or understand, and you'll do better if you just do it. Don't try to squeeze the square peg in the round hole, ask for help, and say you don't want to build properly for the content. I don't even like PVP, and I have 2 sets in my bank that I pull out for daily battlegrounds because I can do well with my normal rotations on most builds, subbing one skill or two at most, by just swapping those. I'm not good at PVP, but with the right build, you can do fine or even well against most players as a veteran player. If you don't want to make a build for PVP, play BGs in under level 50. It's all about how good you are at mechanics in under level 50 BGs.

Jaimeh

ArchMikem wrote: »

I just can't understand. How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build? It should be impossible, this game has roles, its about choosing the type you want to spec into, strengthening one and weakening the rest.

It's the same thing in PvE though if you think about running solo arenas: you have to tank, heal, damage and manage your sustain all at the same time. The main difference is that in PvP the 'when' and the combo of the hit matter the most: ie., they will hit you the hardest when you are stunned and when they are buffed, and then they will try to sustain and mitigate till they can line things up do it again (unlike PvE when the rotation is more or less constant). The thing is if you are too squishy and if you don't have a lot of sustain (and I'd argue also speed) when you start out, you don't survive long enough in a fight to learn what to do in it. And even when you learn the playstyle of your own build you have to learn how other classes work, and devise counters for their skills. This all comes with being exposed to fights, and the smaller the better, so you don't get lost in the barrage of attacks in big zerg fights. I think duelling with an experienced guildmate would be the best way to start getting the handle of your build.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

ArchMikem wrote: »

I've slogged in Cyro and Imp City for years now. Main is a Legate, three others are mid level. But they all use PvE builds because that's what I know to make and use. That makes me a glass cannon, but even most of the time against the tryhards I'm not even the cannon.

I just can't understand. How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build? It should be impossible, this game has roles, its about choosing the type you want to spec into, strengthening one and weakening the rest. I "try" to imitate some of the things that wreck me and end up being a noodle regardless. My sustain is terrible, or I have no crit, or my resource pool is low, I'm always trading something yet I'm fighting 5 stars that appear to have everything. The most success I have in PvP is with my StamBlade, but that's squarely because of cloak. It's a crutch, I won't deny, it helps me stay in the fight cause I cannot brawl. After years like this I keep thinking, gee, it sure would be nice for once to actually take hits without worry, press a few buttons and win fights.

PVP in general is about understanding burst combos and sustain along with kiting. It's different to PVE in that way because PVE is about sustained dmg and minimising movement. If you want a more PVE style then you could look to join a group, whilst burst is still important group gameplay is much more oriented around sustained damage output during burst windows and using your groups coordination to turn that into burst. E.g. all using ulti's at the same time whilst someone else CC's vs pulling off some good good CC burst combo on your own.

This video whilst a little outdated and focused more on dueling describes a lot of the things which help players understand what the enemies they fight are doing. It's well worth watching it might help a bit.
https://youtu.be/P0BQDdsbAac

Marcus684

@ArchMikem I am very much in a similar position as you. I've been PvPing since the 1st week of early release, with a few game breaks here and there, and only just yesterday hit Warlord on my main PvP toon (stamDK). I've rolled a mag and stam toon for every class over the years and tried to put together PvP builds on all of them, and decided that I'm just never going to be very good at it. My glass cannon builds can do ok vs. noobs but fail to dent the sweaties, and tend to die to the first stiff breeze that comes along, while my attempts at an all-around build have been pathetic.

I did however finally give in and recently threw together a S+B 7 heavy impen 1-bar oakentank build on my stamDK and have been having a surprising amount of success on it. I still can't provide any real challenge to a super-sweaty, but I can survive amazingly well against them and the small-man farm groups and still take out squishies. Plus, being able to survive big siege hits while counter-sieging on the walls is a nice change.

For me, I think the issue has been that the learning curve to really git gud in ESO PvP is just too high. As an older gamer with too many irl commitments, I just don't seem to have the time and physical abilities to research and put together the right build and practice it enough to rise to a high level. Once I narrowed down my focus to just being able to survive I feel like I've broken through the wall from scrub to competent PvPer, but I'm sure others here will have a different opinion

ArchMikem

MerguezMan wrote: »

So, you invested in 4 different characters, buit them for PvE, and became PvP's "Jack of all trades"...

Maybe pick 1 toon, and push his buid into 1 type of PvP that you feel most comfortable with ?
Get him to have a stun/burst combo instead of his regular PvE rotation.
Train in duels until you "get it right", and then take him into Cyro/IC to see how it goes.

Also :
- No Proc campaigns and BGs don't play the same as CP campaigns. Give that a try with appropriate sets.
- Immovable & invisibility potions are totally worth the investment
- You have almost 0 chances of killing those health tanks alone, unless you bomb them in a group
- Invest EITHER in max crit or max penetration, not both. Players you will face have invested either in crit resist or regular resist, rarely both with high damage on top.
- Mag shields > Healing in PvP. You don't need super-high healing when you can double-up your health pool by just pushing a button. You can't sustain that forever while using ressources to attack, neither can others.

Thank you for your tips, especially about choosing either penetration or crit, not both. My main is a crit kitty but I read higher pen means more damage gets thru, and almost everyone is wearing heavy so I tried rebuilding for that, swapping a Dagger for a mace, using Sharpened over Nirnhoned. Gave my NB 10k pen while still having at least 50% crit chance buffed, but just 40% Crit Dmg modifier. Taking your tip to heart I changed the mace to a sword, swapped my Spriggans set for Leviathan and my Thief mundus for the Shadow. Now I have less Stam, just 32k, and my pen dropped to 3k, but my Wep Dmg is still up at 5200, Crit Chance about 50% and Crit Dmg Mod up to 74% fully buffed. And it does feel like my attacks are hitting harder, if only slightly.

SandandStars

Lots of good advice here.

I will add that you should start out on a DK. It is by far the most forgiving class and straightforward/easy to learn.

CameraBeardThePirate

The fact that you recognize the reason you have success on your Stamblade is stealth is pretty awesome for someone who claims to struggle in PvP. You're right in that Stealth can teach really bad habits, so I definitely recommend getting comfortable with a different class. DK and Warden are both great right now, and even if the meta shifts they'll likely remain great classes to learn on as they both have quite a few tools at their disposal.

The biggest advice I can give is to treat every life like a game of golf. When you die, ask yourself: how could I have prevented that death? 99 times out of 100, there is an answer to that question. While builds certainly matter, you can have great success with good movement, good rotations, and knowing when to engage and disengage alone.

VaranisArano

If its not your build, its probably PVP tactics. Its kind of the reverse of PVE. PVP Defense /Healing is proactive. PVP Attacking is reactive.

"How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build?"

Common PVP tactics:

• Having an offensive bar and a defensive bar
• Proactive defenses like buffing and HOTs before you go into battle and so you never go into execute range
• Pacing yourself so you have the stamina to block and dodge roll
• Holding your burst combo until your opponent has exhausted their own resources
• Having a burst combo that delivers a powerful blow to a weakened opponent (or alternatively, the sustain to pressure your opponent down)
• Staying light on your feet. Every attack you dodge just by moving around is one you don't have to heal

You'll know better than I how you're fighting. A lot of the posters I talk to find they're attacking while their opponent is turtled up defensively, and then ran out of their resources to defend themselves.

Hope that helps!

mocap

Front bar burst damage + offensive weapon.
Back bar heal, sustain, buffs + defensive weapon.

Healing mostly performed while holding block on back bar with S&B or Frost Stave.
Better to have at least 2 heals (1 HoT, 1 burst).

For CP campaing usually go with 1 damage set, 1 defence set.
For Non CP campaign usually go with Heartland Conqueror with damage trait front bar and defence trait back bar.

Sustain in PvP means that you won't be spamming skills left and right. Instead you kite or play in group.


Those a general tips on the basis of which you can try to mold something )

buzzclops

A good place to start is to build a lot of sustain and defense to be able to make mistake and understand them. You could use back bar wretched vitality with your armor buff and resolving vigor to proc it. Then use mara’s balm on your body (3piece heavy+ 2 jewelry). Markyn mythic for more healing and defense. One piece of magma incarnate. Then you can use three infused damage glyphs and a offensive mundus. That would bring you to about 2k sustain for each ressources and 5.5k weapon damage. Plenty enough to kill low mmr players. But most importantly you have passive healing and good sustain to make mistakes.

When youre ready remove mara for any offensive set and you’ll be good.

A beginner build like this with the tips from varanis and mocap above is what will make you learn!

Redguards_Revenge

ArchMikem wrote: »

I've slogged in Cyro and Imp City for years now. Main is a Legate, three others are mid level. But they all use PvE builds because that's what I know to make and use. That makes me a glass cannon, but even most of the time against the tryhards I'm not even the cannon.

I just can't understand. How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build? It should be impossible, this game has roles, its about choosing the type you want to spec into, strengthening one and weakening the rest. I "try" to imitate some of the things that wreck me and end up being a noodle regardless. My sustain is terrible, or I have no crit, or my resource pool is low, I'm always trading something yet I'm fighting 5 stars that appear to have everything. The most success I have in PvP is with my StamBlade, but that's squarely because of cloak. It's a crutch, I won't deny, it helps me stay in the fight cause I cannot brawl. After years like this I keep thinking, gee, it sure would be nice for once to actually take hits without worry, press a few buttons and win fights.

In the past, I would tell you there was a way. Now....

Do you have the most current Mythics?

Do you have the most current sets?

Are you Playing NB or DK? (NB Cloak, DK Corrosive Armor, DK %heals)

Are you a vampire? ( Stage 3 30% damage reduction when health gets low, coming out of stealth grants weapon and spell damage)

Do you front bar and back bar? Front bar back bar being being 3 rings and a weapon/weapons or 3 body pieces and a weapon/weapons. Back bar must be a set that procs for X amount of seconds so that you keep it up while you switch back to front bar. Set's for back bar can be like 7th legion, Truth, etc. Then you'll have 2 pieces for a monster set, 1 piece for a mythic and one piece for a Trainee or Druid set.

If no to any of these questions. You will never overcome them.

Personally, I don't own anything passed Summerset. I also don't use Mythics. I only use base game and crafted sets. There is no way to beat them. There is no trick play, there is no strategy. That's why I rarely play PVP now. You can be good and still suck. I was laughing when Fengrush came back for a bit in BGs and couldn't even get the flow going. Some may say it's rust, but it was just the game moving on and him looking at the new gap that was created after the long disengagement.

FriedEggSandwich

I recently returned to pvp after quite a long break, and I'm reminded that the reality for me in cyro, as someone who doesn't much like to group with randoms, is that I'm going to die a lot, and earning ap will be slower. I manage my expectations; I know I can sustain the pressure of 2 or 3 average players, but 2 or 3 good players, or a ball group, and I'm dead. I guess what I'm saying is; if you're an average player (like me), and you're determined to run around by yourself with an unorthodox build, then just try not to be alone. Nothing wrong with the occasional zerg-serf, imo.

boi_anachronism_

Marcus684 wrote: »

@ArchMikem I am very much in a similar position as you. I've been PvPing since the 1st week of early release, with a few game breaks here and there, and only just yesterday hit Warlord on my main PvP toon (stamDK). I've rolled a mag and stam toon for every class over the years and tried to put together PvP builds on all of them, and decided that I'm just never going to be very good at it. My glass cannon builds can do ok vs. noobs but fail to dent the sweaties, and tend to die to the first stiff breeze that comes along, while my attempts at an all-around build have been pathetic.

I did however finally give in and recently threw together a S+B 7 heavy impen 1-bar oakentank build on my stamDK and have been having a surprising amount of success on it. I still can't provide any real challenge to a super-sweaty, but I can survive amazingly well against them and the small-man farm groups and still take out squishies. Plus, being able to survive big siege hits while counter-sieging on the walls is a nice change.

For me, I think the issue has been that the learning curve to really git gud in ESO PvP is just too high. As an older gamer with too many irl commitments, I just don't seem to have the time and physical abilities to research and put together the right build and practice it enough to rise to a high level. Once I narrowed down my focus to just being able to survive I feel like I've broken through the wall from scrub to competent PvPer, but I'm sure others here will have a different opinion

With respect my friend- and i know this may sound harsh- that is not supposed to happen. Dk is massively overtuned. No build should allow you the instant ability to take on 10 people at a time or put pressure on real sweaty players as a pvp newbie. Its a huge problem. Troll dks are the bane of pvp right now. Now im no gods gift to pvp, straight middle of the road. Expect to die to more experienced players. I will never put on this build for one really simple reason. Its a crutch and i will never get better.

Anti_Virus

ArchMikem wrote: »

I've slogged in Cyro and Imp City for years now. Main is a Legate, three others are mid level. But they all use PvE builds because that's what I know to make and use. That makes me a glass cannon, but even most of the time against the tryhards I'm not even the cannon.

I just can't understand. How can someone hit hard, tank, out heal, and sustain ALL in the same build? It should be impossible, this game has roles, its about choosing the type you want to spec into, strengthening one and weakening the rest. I "try" to imitate some of the things that wreck me and end up being a noodle regardless. My sustain is terrible, or I have no crit, or my resource pool is low, I'm always trading something yet I'm fighting 5 stars that appear to have everything. The most success I have in PvP is with my StamBlade, but that's squarely because of cloak. It's a crutch, I won't deny, it helps me stay in the fight cause I cannot brawl. After years like this I keep thinking, gee, it sure would be nice for once to actually take hits without worry, press a few buttons and win fights.

It’s because healing and damage scale from the same offensive stats