difficulty creep on Companions

GretchenRPH

it's not impossible, for sure, and the discussion group for companions has been closed, but just gotta say, unlocking the 2 new companions on 15 characters is worthy of a weekly endeavor or two. Mirri and Bastian, you ran through 2 small easy delves and they are unlocked. Isobel and Ember, still a little delve action but especially with Isobel, some running around just to make it take a while.

Sharps and Azandar, first time you have to plow through a public dungeon to unlock them initially. And Gorne in particular is a buggy mess, I have to reloadui repeatedly due to not being able to interact with containers or bodies, and I've been hit and killed by bosses on the far side of the map.

I really hope that in some future chapter when we see Companions #7 and #8, you don't have to do a dungeon or a trial. Maybe if you want them to be a challenge, ease back on the unlock but require harder content on the rapport quests along the way? I have to push through public dungeons 30 times to unlock these two for all my characters. Feels a bit much, especially compared to the first 4 companions.

BlueRaven

Agreed, although I have found doing a roll dodge gets around the whole "not being able to interact with containers or bodies" thing.

Really though companions are for all players (meaning they should not be too difficult to acquire and level).

Necrotech_Master

i still find it absurd that it is mandatory to do the quests on every toon after unlocking them at all

the first time you do the quest, you unlock it in the collection menu (the defacto "account wide" set of unlocks), and you are still required to do this dumb quest on every toon

(and for those of you who complain too much is account wide, no im not suggesting that you cant run the quest again per toon, im saying it should not be required for something you did technically unlock account wide in the first place)

i unlocked bastian and mirri with all of my toons, and i thought that this was extremely annoying (to the point when i was doing mirris quest i purposely killed off all of the hostages because it required 5-6 less actions per quest run)

i unlocked ember and isobel with all my toons and isobels quest being twice as long as the others annoyed me even further

so far with the new companions ive only unlocked them on 3 of my 10 toons, and at this point im almost not even bothering to unlock them on the rest because especially azanders quest is like watching paint dry, especially when you need like 4 different wayshrines across all of apocrypha to get to all the spots he needs you to go (and then all the freaking waiting on the dang dialogs when you get to points like talking to tem or that section in the underweave) (sharps quest is far far less annoying but still has a lot of parts with unskippable dialog)

i already have the keepsakes of both new companions, so at this point im like why bother, i would rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon than sit through azanders quest a 4th+ time

Treeshka

All companion quests should have a third dialogue option when you take the quest. Where it will simply allow you to skip it and assume it is completed with default quest choices.

PrinceShroob

As someone who does endgame stuff, I don't find public dungeons terribly challenging. In fact, I like that their quests take you to public dungeons and a delve, since you can pick up the skill point from the group event and the Skyshard. In hindsight, since these companions aren't associated with a location objective, their quests let you explore more locations, which I think is a good move.

I found Sharp's quest to be fairly brisk; I'd honestly call it the shortest companion recruitment quest next to Ember's. Azandar's is longer, but upon replaying it the public dungeon portion is actually quite short and a lot of the length comes from also doing the Fathoms Drift delve quest. If I had to make one change, I'd cut out the last section where you return to Cipher's Midden and just have him join you in Fathoms Drift.

I personally find Mirri's and Isobel's quests to be the most excruciating to repeat. Mirri's quest is far more focused on the events occurring rather than her character, which makes it tedious to repeat since you know what happens; compare Sharp's, where there's more focus on how he's reacting to learning about his past, or Bastian's, which focuses on his backstory. Isobel's quest simply has you do a lot and has a ton of NPCs to talk to.

In the future, I'd just like it if companion recruitment quests had more options so they'd be more fun to replay. For example, if for Isobel's quest, you had to choose only one knightly order to impress, or if in Mirri's, you could only rescue some of her adventuring party depending on which paths you took.

phaneub17_ESO

At the shortest time I spent, Azandar and Sharp takes 35 minutes per character with only one jump.

With Azandar, go through the left then right portal in the bindery to collect each end wayshrines first.

haelgaan

if they're making companions harder to get, did they also make them more effective?

Necrotech_Master

haelgaan wrote: »

if they're making companions harder to get, did they also make them more effective?

i dont think they are really that much superior than any other companion

even in certain roles they dont do that much better than other companions, azander works well as a healer/buffer/debuffer but i dont necessarily think he would be better than others such as isobel

so i would say that overall all of the companions are still fairly equally effective

idk why they keep making their intro quests longer, or require them on every toon, but its something thats been seriously putting me off trying to unlock them on more toons

i would say from a personal standpoint, you only really need 3 companions minimum unlocked, 1 set up as tank, 1 set up as a healer, and 1 set up as dps

having 2 as healer, or 2 as dps, or 2 as tank its like you just pick which one does a better job

AcadianPaladin

Unlocking the first four companions for all was not too bad but at this point, I just unlock the new ones on one in order to evaluate them. Only if I expect them to replace Mirri as my tank or Ember as my ranged dps would I consider unlocking new ones on others. The two new ones are fine companions but Mirri and Ember are not in jeopardy so I won't be unlocking the new ones on multiple characters.

That we can expect more companions is a great thing but does indeed highlight that unlocking them should be account wide.

Jestir

Public dungeons, especially when you are going in to do something and you DO NOT have to actually fight any bosses in there, are not difficult enough to warrant a complaint


The absolute only time a non-boss encounter in a public dungeon was an issue was my fresh cp160 stam dk, from years ago when they were the worst class in the game outside of tanking, with under leveled gear when I didn't understand actually how to play the game at all

ApoAlaia

Treeshka wrote: »

All companion quests should have a third dialogue option when you take the quest. Where it will simply allow you to skip it and assume it is completed with default quest choices.

This right here would be a fantastic QoL improvement.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

The new one just take way ro much time. Espesially azandar.
Sure i dont have to do boss while in there but i might as well at least do the quest/skyshard/group event knowing i will have to come back to do it later anyway. Azandar add a delve on top of that.

While not hard its just to long, should have stayed about the same as previous ones

ADarklore

I don't think there is any actual rationale to them forcing us to go through public dungeons other than to force 'time sinks' upon us. Sharp's quest could well have ended without a public dungeon, because the only thing we're doing is going through the thing to reach a 'secret cave', when they could have just had it end on a shoreline.

Azandar's as well, seems just like an annoying fetch quest time sink... and they don't seem to care about people who have alts having to do these annoyingly lengthy quests on all their characters just to unlock them.

It's amazing they took feedback into consideration about their rapport and how it was a slog to increase it... yet they completely ignored the feedback about the slog to unlock them on alts.

If I had to do these quests on ONE character to initially unlock them across account, it wouldn't be so bad... but to do them on all 18 of my alts... not fun at all.

Taggund

There is no way I'm doing all the quests again, so Alts only get one companion (and usually only the companion that still needs to level).

Marcus684

Yeah, Sharp and Azandar do seem like quite a bit more of a slog to get than previous companions, especially Azandar. I've only done his starter quest 3 times, but the last time I started feeling exasperated at how many steps we had to go through just to unlock him.

As for the trip through Gorne to get Sharp, while it's not going to be a problem for most experienced players, I could see it being quite a struggle for some, even though you can mostly avoid the bosses. Hopefully, those who have trouble with it can get help from friends or guildies. I wonder if ZOS chose to send us there to get Sharp as a way to encourage those that avoid combat to get more comfortable with it, either by getting help from others or improving their builds.

alternatelder

I'm signing off permanently the moment they lock a companion behind a trial.

Legoless

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i still find it absurd that it is mandatory to do the quests on every toon after unlocking them at all

It's true. I've only ever bothered unlocking them on main.

tsaescishoeshiner

I prefer the original 4 quests, too (Bastian, Mirri, Isobel, Ember). They essentially acted like another Point-of-Interest quest or delve quest. Maybe it was a lot of development time because they were considered EXTRA environments to create. Personally, I would consider them delve/point-of-interests as far as content, because they are the same length if not longer.

Might as well double up in exchange for having a more memorable first meeting with the companion.

disintegr8

Making the companion 'acquisition' quests longer or harder is just mad when you have (or choose) to do them on all of your characters. If the unlocking was account wide, then fine, make the quest a real challenge to justify it.

FrancisCrawford

I only have one character with both Mirri and Bastian unlocked.

Isobel and Ember have only been added for one character each, and one character has Isobel only.

I haven't bought Necrom -- and even when I do, I don't know that I'll get its companions.

I may at some point add Bastian for 2 Mirri characters who now use heavy attack builds.

BergisMacBride

Companion quests, rapport and unlocks should be per account. Their level, undaunted and perks are already by account. This is just needless recycling of already played and overwrought content. Tbh, I try to decrease the rapport on all my alts except for my main after the perk is unlocked. That way I won’t get those annoying quest markers if I want to use a companion on an alt.

mbeetley_ESO

PrinceShroob wrote: »

As someone who does endgame stuff, I don't find public dungeons terribly challenging. In fact, I like that their quests take you to public dungeons and a delve, since you can pick up the skill point from the group event and the Skyshard.

This is irrelevant. As someone who does endgame stuff, you don't need companions. New gamers in particular might want the help. And unless there are other players around, they certainly won't be able to do the group event for the skill point. I found it challenging as an experienced (not endgamer) player with my champion level toon. So forcing new players to go into content that they may find VERY challenging to get something that is designed to help them seems ill-thought-out. Companion acquisition quests are not the place to put challenging content. Yes, I managed alright even with my new Arcanist at level 10 or whatever, but a new player might struggle with it. So I think putting their acquisition quests in a public dungeon was a bad decision.

mbeetley_ESO

Treeshka wrote: »

All companion quests should have a third dialogue option when you take the quest. Where it will simply allow you to skip it and assume it is completed with default quest choices.

This seems like a good idea. at least for the acquisition quests. Some people will want to play through the quest again, so it's good to have that ability. But going through the acquisition quest multiple times can be rather tedious. I'm of two minds when it comes to the story quests, but maybe?

ADarklore

mbeetley_ESO wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

All companion quests should have a third dialogue option when you take the quest. Where it will simply allow you to skip it and assume it is completed with default quest choices.

This seems like a good idea. at least for the acquisition quests. Some people will want to play through the quest again, so it's good to have that ability. But going through the acquisition quest multiple times can be rather tedious. I'm of two minds when it comes to the story quests, but maybe?

I just wish that if you 'activate' your companion on an alt that doesn't have it active, it would just point you to their initial location instead of actually advancing their quests to the next step. I know with Mirri and Bastian, that's how it worked. With Ember and Isobel, activating them would just direct you TO them advancing past the NPC that you could talk to. However, with Azandar and Sharp, they actually advance past dialogue with them that IMO was important... like with Azandar, being able to tell him that my character is 'also an Arcanist' felt important to me. Yet, if you try to activate the companion on an alt, it totally skips past that entire sequence of dialogue and advances the quest to the next step. Same with Sharp. You never get a proper introduction, you just get directed to speak with someone in the Outlaw's Refuge FOR Sharp. Well, who is Sharp?? I have never met him and yet I'm now helping him.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Is this something that can be fixed? It seems a huge oversight to be able to skip the initial meeting of your companion only to thrust you immediately into helping someone you've never actually met.

BoloBoffin

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

All companion quests should have a third dialogue option when you take the quest. Where it will simply allow you to skip it and assume it is completed with default quest choices.

This right here would be a fantastic QoL improvement.

Yes! Such as when you come across the companion in their first spot, among the very first dialogue choices is a:

"Are you still having trouble with that? I thought <original toon> took care of that for you."

Upon which, the companion says:

"Yes, they did! Well, if you're their friend, I'm your friend too."

Bam. Unlocked companion ready to start leveling.

SilverBride

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i still find it absurd that it is mandatory to do the quests on every toon after unlocking them at all.

I agree with this 100%. We should really be given the choice to skip these, like we are with the ToT tutorial quest. This way players can choose for themselves whether to do it again or not.

jle30303

For me, the trouble is, my alts are the ones I want to unlock companions on... Because my main is the one that's finished all the quests, and thus has nothing left to actually *do* except repeatable: even doing the complete Telvanni line doesn't actually give enough experience to fully level a companion, or even half level them. I need to bring the companions with my alts who still have prior quests to do, to level them up to 20 (and teach them 2 each of weapon and armor styles in the process: it takes almost exactly twice as much XP to get a companion to 20 as it does to get his weapon or armor style to 20.)

But I need to ALSO do it on my main, because the main is the one that's going to go for full max rapport with them (and has finally achieved it on both, 5500 on both Sharp and Azandar)...

Ember is, in fact, by some distance the easiest Companion to unlock. You never stray far from Tor Draoife, you can even avoid the (few) trash mobs in the area, the wispmother boss can be stealthed around and is in any case no tougher than the average Delve boss, and even out of the trash mobs there's nothing stronger than a crocodile or a dire wolf. Isobel is somewhat longer and more annoying, but comparable to the Blackwood companions - going through a dungeon of approximately delve-level difficulty.

Whereas Sharp and Azander... Even though you can technically avoid the bosses on the way through to their quests, you've still got to go into a public dungeon, which has much larger trash groups than regular overlands or delves, and you generally pick up the public dungeon's quest on the way, which has a LOT of trash groups to slog through and usually takes you within fighting distance of several bosses... and not every character is capable of soloing them. Particularly not the Group Challenges in these dungeons, which are basically World Boss strength - a LOT tougher than most previous public dungeons. Even the Delve bosses in Telvanni Peninsula are about as strong as base-game Public Dungeon bosses.

In fact... with my new Arcanist character... what I did was race and unlock Ember first in High Isle, so as to have an easy-to-get Companion already at max level with me, while on the quest to unlock Sharp and Azander...

Mik195

I still have no idea how to play my new arcanist and she could use a companion's help, but dealing with public dungeon mobs (just too many at once) would be painful. I'd rather companion acquisition quests stick to delves. My alts don't get crafted gear or red/blue champion points until level 50.

Snamyap

disintegr8 wrote: »

Making the companion 'acquisition' quests longer or harder is just mad when you have (or choose) to do them on all of your characters. If the unlocking was account wide, then fine, make the quest a real challenge to justify it.

Public dungeons are trivial to me, and with almost all my characters being stage 4 vampires I just run through. Regardless, doing it on 5 characters got tiresome fast.
For people for who this is challenging content and without invis I can understand this being excruciating.

Castagere

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

I only have one character with both Mirri and Bastian unlocked.

Isobel and Ember have only been added for one character each, and one character has Isobel only.

I haven't bought Necrom -- and even when I do, I don't know that I'll get its companions.

I may at some point add Bastian for 2 Mirri characters who now use heavy attack builds.

I only use Isabel and Ember now. Got them both to max level. I have 4 max lvl characters that all can use them. I'm done with any more companions to level up.